Is this what you saw?
If so, that's not a tank.
This is a tank.
Posted on 09/11/2017 3:05:31 PM PDT by kevcol
St.Thomas resident Mike Laplac on Monday said that looters are robbing residents using machetes and guns in the aftermath of Hurricane Irma pummeling the Caribbean island.
“I actually know of eight people that were robbed in broad daylight with machetes for everything they had in their vehicles, including their fuel. Yesterday we spent about 3 ½ hours in a line for fuel, and machetes were pulled there as well.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxbusiness.com ...
That’ll work for a while.
4buck.. For a big crowd I like 4buck....
I have been going to the BVI for twenty some odd years. I love most of these folks, they do have their Welfare Suckers too, however, the majority are Christian, hardworking people who have not a lot . They are joyful, generous and polite. It’s the American /Eurotrash tourists who suck . I have many friends there that I am worried sick about. Are they alive, did they survive, What is their future with all of this devastation and loss of Income?
The USVI has the welfare State cooking with Gas, but the same temperament survives throughout the Islands. Most Folks work hard at their Tourism jobs...their main income.
It’s Men who don’t do sh*t if you wish to make vast generalizations.
You are either ignorant of life in the Islands, or other unkind alternatives. Every Society has lowlifes but, painting with a broad brush reeks of elitism.
St Thomas survives on the cruise ship industry. A few hours of daylight visit, guided tours to the crowded tourist spots, and you’re back in the ship before the thugs start their night crawl. The hurricane stripped off the veneer of civilization.
The Glock kaboom with missing forefinger and part of the thumb pulverized? I thought it was good teaching material, like those old driver safety films (Signal 30, Red Asphalt, etc.)
Agree. Tourism isn’t a great industry if it’s the only one a place has, and doesn’t grant much upward mobility because while it offers enough income to keep food on the table, it does not provide careers. But people in a tourist economy get by, and most are very nice, honest, etc. There is always a thuggish underclass, though, and when for one reason or another, tourism goes away - the thugs take over.
Is this what you saw?
If so, that's not a tank.
This is a tank.
“Only when machetes are outlawed by some ordinance will we truly be safe......”
Truly funny. LOL
;)
Well, we might have lurkers from DU. I have to help them cheer - for 1 second, LOL.
It’s funny you should say that; I felt like an idiot because I wasn’t sure. Watching those things roll through the intersection and turn left, I thought they must not be tanks because of the long, low pointy profile shown in the second picture. But there was no missile turret on it? And they weren’t desert tan in color.
If you had visited Virgin Gorda (British Virgin Islands) you never would have wanted to return home. That place is amazing.....and now gutted.
Is the one in the first picture a “high water vehicle”? In searching for this (sheesh, that cell phone video is GONE), I see an article that says 1000 high water vehicles are among the military resources sent to FL. And then there’s a few military bases there anyway.
Here’s the relevant piece of the article dated Sept. 10:
“In advance of the storm, Gov. Rick Scott, R-Florida, activated the entire Florida Army and Air National Guard — about 7,000 available members — to help with planning, logistics and support. The governor said that 1,000 high water vehicles, 13 helicopters, 17 boats and more than 700 generators were on standby.
In addition, the National Guard Bureau has identified approximately 30,000 troops, 4,000 trucks, 100 helicopters and air evacuation crews that are standing by for Hurricane Irma support.”
PS: I definitely saw the second picture and was not familiar with this type of tank. I would have expected something in between the two types you show - boxy and kinda tall, big etc.
Is the one in the first picture a “high water vehicle”? In searching for this (sheesh, that cell phone video is GONE), I see an article that says 1000 high water vehicles are among the military resources sent to FL. And then there’s a few military bases there anyway.
Here’s the relevant piece of the article dated Sept. 10:
“In advance of the storm, Gov. Rick Scott, R-Florida, activated the entire Florida Army and Air National Guard — about 7,000 available members — to help with planning, logistics and support. The governor said that 1,000 high water vehicles, 13 helicopters, 17 boats and more than 700 generators were on standby.
In addition, the National Guard Bureau has identified approximately 30,000 troops, 4,000 trucks, 100 helicopters and air evacuation crews that are standing by for Hurricane Irma support.”
PS: I definitely saw the second picture and was not familiar with this type of tank. I would have expected something in between the two types you show - boxy and kinda tall, big etc.
Not the long, larger pointed vehicles I saw. But - no gun on top. Not sure what to think. I think the video I saw got taken down.
But it is less correct, with more pellets, and depending on the choke and load more spread correct?
Not to bust your chops but I’m just not a fan of 00 buck.
#1 and #4 basically have the same penetration in a practical test against layers of drywall/sheetrock. 00 will go through at least one and sometimes part of two more sheets of drywall, as noted in the test.
The issue with #4 (and to a slightly lesser degree #1) as found out in the real world is that while you get more pellets and a denser pattern as a general rule, you run into the same problem that people with .22LR pistols do - the projectiles can kill but they often won’t kill fast enough and they simply don’t have enough mass to cause the shocking, fight stopping damage that 00 Buck can. #4 buckshot carries 20 to 24 (depending on maker) .24 caliber projectiles moving at 1100-1300 feet per second - which is about the velocity and energy of a slow .22LR, say one out of a short pistol barrel. Yes, it will cause injury or death. But it may not cause shock, musculo-skeletal damage, or death *fast* enough - especially in the case of a drugged-up assailant who may no longer be capable of feeling pain; #4 will hurt him, 00 will (as one experienced shooter put it) cleave meat from bone - and break bones.
#4 also has the known problem of suffering from “Hollywood stops” where hard items carried in pockets, or especially thick or tough garments, can stop or deflect the .24 caliber pellet.
There’s also the fact that the smaller, lighter projectiles of the #4 buck round tend to lose energy faster than the heavier projectiles of the 00 buck round does, as noted in the comparison I linked to you. The flip side of that is that the loss isn’t actually linear and in engagements over 30 *feet* #4 may not have the energy to penetrate even moderately heavy winter clothing. “Please, Mister Felon That’s 50 Feet Away, wait a moment while I change loads in my shotgun.”
Many US police departments used to issue #4 buck for overpenetration reasons. In fact, it used to be the preferred load of the FBI. Most departments and agencies have changed to 00 for the above reasons in the last couple decades. There are also modern developments in 00 buck rounds that help address the various concerns - such as flight control wads, reduced power/recoil rounds, etc.
For comparison, the 00 Buck cartridge carries between 9-13 projectiles that are .33” or 8.38mm in diameter and fires them at an average velocity of around 1300fps. What that means is that each projectile is roughly equivalent to a round from a regular 9mm submachine gun or carbine.
Most people consider the .22-.25 class pistol rounds to be sub-par for self defense. The #4 buck cartridge is like launching a cloud of slow .22s or .25s at a target. 9mm is considered by most to be generally acceptable (even if at just a minimum) as a self defense caliber - and 00 buck is basically like unloading a full house burst from a 9mm submachine gun or automatic carbine into your target. No velocity deficit.
bookmark
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.