Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Self Defense? Washington Man Faces Possible Murder Charge for Shooting Showering Intruder
NBC News ^ | 4/4

Posted on 04/05/2017 12:01:57 AM PDT by nickcarraway

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-64 next last

1 posted on 04/05/2017 12:01:57 AM PDT by nickcarraway
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

What a tragedy.

To man in shower: “Put down your weapon!”

Man in shower: “But I can’t! Give me a minute!”

Blam, blam, blam blam!

Man coming at you in shower is no reason to blow him dead.


2 posted on 04/05/2017 12:16:06 AM PDT by roadcat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: roadcat

Gotta blow him dead. What’s to keep him coming back after he’s been arrested? Why do you think cops shoot to kill?


3 posted on 04/05/2017 12:22:25 AM PDT by DIRTYSECRET (urope. Why do they put up with this.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Incredibly stupid. He goes next door, gets a gun, returns, shoots the guy in the shower 4 times, then calls the police. Dead man had no criminal record.


4 posted on 04/05/2017 12:24:13 AM PDT by iowamark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DIRTYSECRET

It’s real simple. You walk out of your house. Then you call the police. This is murder, not self-defense


5 posted on 04/05/2017 12:34:06 AM PDT by bigdaddy45
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Sadly, an avoidable murder. He had plenty of time to call the police. If it were a house he lived in, it might be more understandable about fear of return and revenge later on. So many reasons to despise the misuse of alcohol.


6 posted on 04/05/2017 12:49:46 AM PDT by skr (May God confound the enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

Probably some kind of Craig’s list queer hookup gone wrong.


7 posted on 04/05/2017 1:00:31 AM PDT by Governor Dinwiddie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/bruce-fanning-nathaniel-rosa-belfair-mason-washington-homeowner-shooting-intruder-murder-photos/

8 posted on 04/05/2017 1:15:33 AM PDT by cynwoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DIRTYSECRET

Dude, WTF are you talking about?! :)

He went next door and got a gun. And went back and shot him.

This is a conservative website.

Not stormfront.


9 posted on 04/05/2017 1:39:00 AM PDT by dp0622 (The only thing an upper crust cIonservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
Washington state law says no person shall be placed in "legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever" for protecting themselves "by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime."

Now I do not think he did the right thing, but if the law really is as quoted, how does anyone think he was not protecting his real (the building) or personal (the contents of the building) property?

I don't think he should have shot the guy, but I do feel that going home to get the gun was a prudent thing to do in case of confrontation, and that if the guy made threatening verbalizations to him what should he do?

Sure call the police first is a good idea, but finding a stranger in your shower is a stressful event and he might not be thinking with 100% clarity.

10 posted on 04/05/2017 1:41:47 AM PDT by CurlyDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: iowamark

Just stupid? I don’t know. Sounds like a sociopath to me.

I’ve learned a lot about guns and when self defense is permitted from gun owners on FR.

I would assume most of them would think this guy was nuts!!!

Being the coward i am, i’d lock myself in the other house and hold the gun just in case until the cops got there!! :)


11 posted on 04/05/2017 1:43:29 AM PDT by dp0622 (The only thing an upper crust cIonservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: CurlyDave

Well Carl Rowan was lucky enough to get a mistrial verdict. So he has a chance.


12 posted on 04/05/2017 2:02:00 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (I never ever set out to make anyone feel safe. - S E Hinton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

This one sounds like murder. Unlike the guy in Broken Arrow, OK, who was facing three armed intruders, the shooter in this case wasn’t under a direct threat.


13 posted on 04/05/2017 2:08:52 AM PDT by ScottinVA ( Liberals' agony is my entertainment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dp0622
I’ve learned a lot about guns and when self defense is permitted from gun owners on FR.

I'd be really careful with anything I "learned" on Free Republic regarding the lawful use of firearms and self defense.

Lot of folks posting here who believe in within their God-given legal right to shoot anything that moves.

14 posted on 04/05/2017 2:09:59 AM PDT by Drew68
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Drew68

Ah, alas, it doesn’t matter.

I live in NYC/USSR.

I’m obliged to get shot like a sitting duck if my home is broken into.

YES, I want to leave. But the, what’s the word, I always forget, oh yeah, WIFE wants to stay.

I’m 49 in May. We’re out of here at 62.

Straight to PA.

But thanks for the heads up :)


15 posted on 04/05/2017 2:14:22 AM PDT by dp0622 (The only thing an upper crust cIonservative hates more than a liberal is a middle class conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: CurlyDave

Yes - the law in Washington state says reasonable force (including homicide) can be used in defense of property. The problem with this shooting would be the “reasonable” aspect of it. If it was me I would have called 911 and went back and made sure he didn’t leave until the cops came. Making a citizen’s arrest if need be. And armed.

RCW 9A.16.110
Defending against violent crime—Reimbursement.

(1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime as defined in RCW 9.94A.030.
.
.
.
(4) Whenever the issue of self-defense under this section is decided by a judge, the judge shall consider the same questions as must be answered in the special verdict under subsection (4) [(5)] of this section.

(5) Whenever the issue of self-defense under this section has been submitted to a jury, and the jury has found the defendant not guilty, the court shall instruct the jury to return a special verdict in substantially the following form:

answer yes or no

1.

Was the finding of not guilty based upon self-defense?

. . . . .

2.

If your answer to question 1 is no, do not answer the remaining question.

3.

If your answer to question 1 is yes, was the defendant:

a.

Protecting himself or herself?

. . . . .

b.

Protecting his or her family?

. . . . .

c.

Protecting his or her property?

. . . . .

d.

Coming to the aid of another who was in imminent danger of a heinous crime?

. . . . .

e.

Coming to the aid of another who was the victim of a heinous crime?

. . . . .

f.

Engaged in criminal conduct substantially related to the events giving rise to the crime with which the defendant is charged?

. . . . .


16 posted on 04/05/2017 2:16:08 AM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts FDR's New Deal = obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway

“’Fanning then left the building, went next door to his home and got a hand gun, returned and shot Rosa,’ Spurling said... Both Spurling and a press release from the sheriff’s office said Fanning did not try interact with Rosa again before shooting him. ‘He wasn’t in any danger when he left the residence,’ Spurling said, later adding, ‘He reinserted himself, saw the individual was still showering and shot him — that’s not self-defense.’”

A good journalist would ask the officers how they know these supposed facts of the case.

Did the owner confess these things? They obviously did not get them from the intruder. No one else was present. No one else would know what happened but the owner.

If it happened the way the police describe it, then it is murder. But it is convenient for them to support their arrest and his being charged by stating these things as facts.

Remember to never answer police questions if involved in a shooting without first talking to a lawyer. Sometimes there is a gray area. Use the presumption of innocence in your favor. But don’t be stupid by shooting someone unless you truly feel your or someone’s life is in danger.


17 posted on 04/05/2017 2:24:39 AM PDT by unlearner (So much winning !!! It's Trumptastic!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: unlearner

I guess it is implied by the statements of the police to the press that the owner told them the facts that they were sharing with the reporters.

If so, the guy is stupid for telling them AND for shooting the burglar.

But I still wonder if they are distorting what he told them.

If he went home and got his gun and came back, he probably would not be breaking the law.

If he tried to arrest the guy, he probably would not be breaking the law.

Both of these actions would probably be stupid, as opposed to calling 911, but not illegal.

Either way, you don’t shoot someone for being in your shower. That’s not a deadly threat.

I hate to prejudge, but it certainly sounds like a bad shooting.


18 posted on 04/05/2017 2:37:39 AM PDT by unlearner (So much winning !!! It's Trumptastic!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Drew68

I trust what I read about the law on FR. Especially since much of it is written without reading the story, you know it’s never contaminated by the facts of the case.

As for the shooter, the bullet holes in the shower curtain worry me. It’s hard to justify whatever fear is required for a shooting if the (drunk, drugged, or crazy) criminal is still in your shower and you’re not. Obviously, it would be an entirely different situation if they were both in the shower!

This guy would have been much better off if he had not shot. Failing that, he should have left out incriminating details, starting with his excursion back to his home, and then including everything else - until he had talked with a good lawyer.


19 posted on 04/05/2017 2:53:35 AM PDT by Pollster1 ("Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: nickcarraway
I am not a lawyer, but I have take the training for concealed carry, which includes safety and legal classes. In addition, I was a commissioned officer in the military, and we had similar training (however that revolved upon the Law of Armed Conflict).

With regard to the rights of citizens who use a firearm, you better understand some basic things, or you may find yourself in prison or in debt to legal bills of a quarter of a million dollars or more.

1. Know if your state has a Castle Doctrine law.

A Castle Doctrine (also known as a castle law or a defense of habitation law) is a legal doctrine that designates a person's abode or any legally occupied place – e.g., a vehicle or home, as a place in which that person has protections and immunities permitting one, in certain circumstances, to use force (up to and including deadly force) to defend oneself against an intruder, free from legal prosecution for the consequences of the force used.[1] The term is most commonly used in the United States, though many other countries invoke comparable principles in their laws.

A person may have a duty to retreat to avoid violence if one can reasonably do so. Castle doctrines negate the duty to retreat when an individual is assaulted in a place where that individual has a right to be, such as within one's own home. Deadly force may be justified and a defense of justifiable homicide applicable, in cases "when the actor reasonably fears imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another". The castle doctrine is not a defined law that can be invoked, but a set of principles which may be incorporated in some form in the law of many jurisdictions.

Justifiable homicide inside one's home is distinct, as a matter of law, from castle doctrine's no duty to retreat therefrom. Because the mere occurrence of trespassing—and occasionally a subjective requirement of fear—is sufficient to invoke the castle doctrine, the burden of proof of fact is much less challenging than that of justifying a homicide.

2. Understand the difference between Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/castle-doctrine-stand-ground/

Don’t get confused. The Castle Doctrine is not Stand Your Ground. The laws are vastly different and if they apply in your state you need to review them and understand what you can and can’t do. Just to make this perfectly clear, every state’s laws are subtly different from similar laws in other states. This is a general overview. Castle Doctrine applies in your home, if you are already inside. Stand Your Ground applies outdoors and only changes one element of the justification for the use of deadly force. They are vastly different.

3. If you use your firearm to defend yourself:

After you have neutralized the threat, call 911. Tell them YOU ARE THE VICTIM OF A CRIME. Tell them you need: medical, police, and give your address. Do NOT tell them you just killed someone. THEN HANG UP!!! Everything is being recorded and can and will be used as evidence. When police arrive, tell them where your firearm is located, and then tell them you are exercising your right to remain silent until your lawyer arrives. Make no statements to the police. If they persist, tell them you are not making a statement without your lawyer. If they ask you to move to their headquarters or station, comply with their instructions.


20 posted on 04/05/2017 3:19:22 AM PDT by SkyPilot ("I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-64 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson