Posted on 04/02/2016 6:39:51 AM PDT by bray
Exodus 13:2 Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
Oh boy Trump stepped in it again by claiming women should be punished for having abortions. The Conservotocracy had a collectivist cow over the thought feminists would be offended by something a Republican would say. What was worse is he did not celebrate it or make a victim of the woman, but did the unthinkable and made the baby the victim. Perhaps having his fifth grandchild this week made the debate more personal than an exercise in dry platitudes. Now the most Pro-life candidate is Trump.
Of course Donald Trump is going to offend people since he actually answers questions directly rather than giving the canned focus tested answers. The Punditocracy have no clue why people are flocking to see his rants and rallies. They live in carefully managed formulas and focus tests rather than just saying the truth. Whether you agree or not with his answer it is still a breath of fresh air compared to the worn out empty phrases we have heard explain to why we are Pro-life while still pandering to women. Testosterone shock has hit this estrogen driven country. Conservatives would rather stay in their safe perches rather than in the war where Trump is.
When we finally meet God, how are we going to explain running for the fox holes over a simple answer to a question about the morality of abortion? How about we at least question women now for killing their babies in their wombs rather than giving them trophies? Yes, they own their womb, but they do not own the baby inside their womb although femihags have convinced America they do. The fact is they are two individuals as any parent can attest to 5 mins after an American baby escapes their death chamber.
What Donald said is babies should be given human rights at conception when they become a person? If they are given those rights then just as if a pregnant woman is killed the killer is charged with two human deaths no matter how developed the baby was. Why should it be any different for a mother who voluntarily kills her own baby? Who can say the baby did not want to live and experience this great world? This issue needs to be discussed now rather than hidden in some sterile room while babies are sucked from women’s tombs all over the country.
Marxists want you to believe a baby is not a baby until they have their first breath and even a few minutes after those breaths. These are the honest pro-abortionists who have no problem killing babies no matter what stage. When you think about it what difference does it make if their baby is born before being killed or a few minutes or days after the birth? What difference does it make a few minutes, days, weeks or months before the birth? At what point in time is it not killing a baby when we know biologically without a shadow of a doubt this baby will be born as a human with all those potentials?
With micro-biology we know that after the smallest moment of conception the sperm DNA will combine with the egg and a human will start growing until it dies. For every conception that is not interrupted by miscarriage or abortion the conception will grow into a healthy baby with the entire world of opportunity to look forward to and live his unique life. That baby is entitled to all of its dreams and aspirations every other person in America is entitled rather than being killed for convenience. Who says poverty does not have happiness or wealth has sadness so why is economic position a determinate?
We know at conception and the zygote starts growing it will not become a dog, a cat, a giraffe or a monkey, it will become a human. So why in a country with so much opportunity do we allow woman to decide which child has the right to live and which does not. What gives her the right to make a godlike decision? This is the discussion we need to have since there is far more knowledge now than there was during Roe v Wade. We now know that those cells are a baby and not a fetus. The court needs to rule on the killing of a baby and not the ending of a fetus. That argument no longer has any bearing whatsoever.
The cowardice of the spokesmen of the Conservative movement is astounding. They get up on their soapboxes and proclaim their allegiance to the Pro-life movement, but that is all the farther they want to go. When something like Trump pointing out the hypocrisy of saying abortion is killing a human they will not get their hands the least bit dirty explaining what this means. If a drunk driver gets 2 murders when he kills an unborn baby, what about death in the womb?
Killing people is killing people and when you really look at killing the innocent, what is the difference between an abortion clinic and Auschwitz killing helpless Jews? It is time to look at making women think twice before they make a horrific decision that will last their entire lives.
Whether the feminists want to admit it or not, women are programmed to want children and many dream their entire lives of that precious gift. Many are not capable of having children and suffer that pain. They understand that bond from the time they are little girls and need and crave it.
After an abortion or miscarriage they cannot cut those ties to their essence and suddenly realize they killed their own baby devastating them. Post abortion depression, drug abuse, suicide and promiscuity raises over 200% as the weight of this guilt hits these girls after they realize the truth.
Now we have gone down the road of harvesting baby parts. This practice makes the Nazi Death Camps look like a walk in the park compared to these horror chambers. If you are a baby heading into one of the harvesting clinics not only will you be killed you will be born mostly intact and then have a person deciding which organ can be salvaged while you die and sent to a University or research clinic like a butcher shop. If Trump wants to secure the women’s vote, talk about their bodies being used as toys with a life of horror if she gets pregnant.
Donald Trump once again exposed the Establishment for the cowards they are. They love pounding their chests about what fiscal and social conservatives they are, but when a real nerve is exposed they run and hide every time. The last thing they can afford is to be lightning rods themselves saying Trump was right, there needs to be real punishment for abortion. While it is legal there needs to be serious social stigma attached and not pretending it is a simple procedure when it is going to traumatize her for life. If it ever were illegal of course there would be consequences to protect the baby.
Whether Trump knew it or not he redefined the Pro-Life discussion perfectly. Of course there should be punishment and there is. Right now all the punishment happens to the baby with no consequence other than a devistated life for the mother. There is a death of a person whether society wants to admit it or not. There are two lives destroyed and often three whether America wants to talk about it or not.
We need someone with the courage to explain the whole question like he was to Matthews about his being a Catholic and still supporting abortion. We need to as a Country to explain what is different than us and the Nazi Death Camps and still claim we value the Right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. When exactly does that Right begin?
Pray America wakes
Enough braying
Which of his five positions on abortion is Trump right about?
Loved it, bray! Keep braying and I’ll keep reading!
He’s RIGHT.
AGAIN!!!!
Stone him! Lynch Him!!
Kick hum out!! Get RID of him!!!
We just cannot have this guy “out there” SPEAKING THE TRUTH ALL THE TIME!!!!
Nononononononononononononono!!!!!
(After all, the unborn don’t vote—who cares about this “God” guy anymore??)
A woman confronted me on this issue.
I said, “Do you realize what the question was?” And then told her it started with the premise: “If abortion were made illegal...”
I asked, “If your husband hires a hit man to kill you, is he guilty of attempted murder?”
She said, “A woman has a right to do whatever with her own body”
I said, “That baby IS NOT your body”
I rephrased, “If abortion were to be made illegal, what would be the point of making it a crime, like murder, if no one was to be prosecuted?”
This was in front of several women. I finally said, “The main thing Trump did wrong was to fall for the gotcha question, he should have said:
“That’s the stupidest question I ever heard in my life and I’m not falling for it. “
(Chris, are you still beating your boyfriend?)
Re trump : I think it’s grandchild # 8
Good thoughts
Iowa Dave, I am making a new effort to try and keep the discussion cordial. Trump doesn’t have five positions on abortion, that is just silliness. Personally, I like that Trump doesn’t tell only his inner circle what is on his mind. He acts like we the people are his inner-circle. The one thing that I do not like are politicians who have canned answers carefully calculated to give them the most votes regardless of their true feelings. I also do not like politicians who attempt to mislead people nearly every time they open their mouth.
Did you read the article? Bray was quite clear that Trump’s statement that if abortion were illegal, a mother who has an abortion should face some legal consequence of breaking the law was a correct opinion. Almost all “pro-life groups” (read that as lobbyists) also claim to be supporters of the rule of law as well as opponents of abortion. Their position that women should escape punishment if they have abortions in opposition to laws (which currently do not exist) is a political position, not a moral position. I have made a similar but lengthier argument on another thread and will not duplicate it here. I will only assert that you can’t take the position that the mother in an illegal abortion should have no legal consequences and still claim to be a strong rule of law advocate.
If a woman hired a person to kill her husband would just the killer be charged with murder? Of course not.
If she has repeated abortions 5-10-20-50
Is this justified? Isn’t she a mass murderer? Particularly when other options to prevent pregnancy are available ?
These are issues that have not been discussed Conservative or liberal are ignoring the real issues.
If you take enough stances, you’re bound to be right eventually.
Are you talking about Cruz?
BTW, there's a headline in Yahoo that states that he said that he never expected to win in Wisconsin. His internals must have really tanked!
The corrupt members of the medical profession need to be controlled by man's laws.
>> Bray was quite clear that Trump’s statement that if abortion were illegal, a mother who has an abortion should face some legal consequence of breaking the law was a correct opinion <<
Uh, that was Mr. Trump’s position for only a few hours. Now he says the woman should not be punished.
But of course, there’s no contradiction, because Mr. Trump can do no wrong.
1) Trump maintains he is most ProLife candidate in the race.
2) Trump States women should be punished who have abortions
3) Trump says issue is unclear and be left to the States
4) Trump now reverses position and says the woman is the victim and should not be punished
5) Trump then says laws are set on abortion and need to stay that way
6) Trump then said that he would work too change the laws
So as someone who has worked for decades to support the unborn, do you see why many of us are concerned with his ever changing position?
Miscarriage is often devastating but women cannot prevent miscarriage. Their baby died, and it is not their fault.
New Living Translation: Genesis 9:6
If anyone takes a human life, that person’s life will also be taken by human hands. For God made human beings in his own image.
Trump’s latest stance is to leave current abortion laws in place. That’s not exactly a pro-life stance.
2) Trump States women should be punished who have abortions Only if abortion was made illegal. Obviously today, that is not the case
3) Trump says issue is unclear and be left to the States Wasn't the argument that it should be a States right issue. What's wrong with this?
4) Trump now reverses position and says the woman is the victim and should not be punished Here we agree. Wish he would of stayed true to his first position. He may have if the 'pro-lifers' didn't jump down his throat.
5) Trump then says laws are set on abortion and need to stay that way Of course they are. Only a Constitutional Amendment will change anything at this point. GWB had both Houses of Congress for 12 years, so by all means pile on Trump.
6) Trump then said that he would work too change the laws Aren't we all? We can push to amend the Constitution.
So as someone who has worked for decades to support the unborn, do you see why many of us are concerned with his ever changing position?
I see hate Trump for anything (I'm don't direct that at you, just in general). He's not polished and I don't see that as an impediment. But we can keep electing slick politicians that have all the right answers since that has worked so well in the past.
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