Posted on 01/27/2016 5:40:37 AM PST by thackney
Wow so we export refined products? That is really sh!tty.
All the companies that can get themselves a way out of the country that keeps their profits up without their having to deal with the corrupt system within the US will spend their lobbyist and bribe money here to change the system here if that "Free Trade" and "Free Markets" crap doesn't work to let them avoid it.
In the sixties and seventies I remember companies training the people there was a shortage of for the Alaska pipeline. They provided instructors, equipment, and selected the applicants from those who applied. The local technical college provided the space and unemployed applicants to be interviewed. I know Vets who were out of work for one reason or another, trained in such a program, and are welders or fitters to this day. I also know some who after working at a company for a few years got assistance from the company to go to college and get an engineering degree.
Now ? Wave your hands and yell about there being a shortage of the proper skills and you get to import trained people while plenty of smart and skilled people are either already capable of doing the job or could be if the companies approached the problem the way they did then. In addition, they avoid what there is of a free market still working here because they pay the prevailing wage in foreign countries, not the prevailing wage here.
They can't yet start importing Chinese by the thousands who are basically the property of the Chinese head man the way they did in the 1800s, so they have the H1-B and H2-B programs to accomplish the same thing. They don't want the hassles and smacking around they have to deal with if they hire US citizens then don't end up with the right mix of preferred groups, don't insure someone who is working hard to get AIDS, actually fire someone who failed the drug test three times, expects to be paid the prevailing wage, and so on.
As long as the free market/free trade argument is tied to anything that doesn't build the workforce here up to and including training the people they need if the rotten education system can't provide them I really don't want to hear it. It's not an argument for either free trade or free markets, really, it's a demand to be exempt from the horrible mess major corporations themselves have helped create with decades of donations to whatever trendy social change the leftist scum want to implement.
Basically, government torture in the market for thee but not for me.
JMHo
Nice you mention transportation cost. At one time, transport costs were in and of themselves a form of tariff on goods from other countries competing for US markets and goods from US markets competing overseas. That's not longer nearly as much of a factor as it once was, especially in commodities shipped in purpose designed bulk carriers.
Shipping costs are obviously lower than refinery improvements or the industry would be fighting the tough battle of getting refineries in shape or built to handle the product they produce here rather than taking the politically easier to purchase export route.
Why fight the EPA, Quota monsters, liars for hire, special interest NGOs, both "F you, pay me" political parties, and all the other restraints on the free market here at home when you can sell opting out as "Free Trade" and "letting the free market work"? A few campaign donations to the right people and interest groups and you're out of the mess so who cares if it screws those who can't make the required donations ?
That is, who cares if it screws everyone who can't pay to play, after all, "I got mine, F you", right?
You think it would be better for us and the world to close some refineries and lose those jobs? Maybe have Saudi Arabia pick up the slack?
Why do you think having working surplus refining capacity in the US is bad?
You are bizarre. Do you think it is bad for us to export cars and computers?
Why would any want to spend money to modify a refinery to use a more expensive oil? To raise prices in the US?
Where the refineries can be expanded economically, to use more oil, locally produced, to make more fuels to sell, that makes sense. But it also means more net export of refined products of the surplus.
Shipping costs are obviously lower than refinery improvements or the industry would be fighting the tough battle of getting refineries in shape or built to handle the product they produce here rather than taking the politically easier to purchase export route.
False premise. You also have to take into account we are already refining more than we use.
Lower the price and demand will go up.
Why do you think having working surplus refining capacity in the US is bad?
A surplus of any product means the price has been set to high. Econ 101.
Do you think it is bad for us to export cars and computers?
Yes, we should be self sufficient in everything. Or that should be the goal.
I am Nationalist/Patriot one of those hated Trump "worshipers". So much so I built a giant Trump snow man in my yard an put a blond whig on it.
America for Americans. Get on the boat or drown.
Do you think the price of cars would go down or up if we made less of them and banned exports?
since many of the jobs were linked to the boom, they were in a sense temporary.
Why would we make less of them? We would ban imports too. The laws of supply and demand work for a domestic market too. Let's say a plague wiped out the rest of the world's population, total depopulation except for the USA. So we would just go without? No I don't think so. The domestic supply would come on line to supply ALL of our needs.
bkmk
You are consistent, confused, but consistent.
I don’t want a government that treats people and their employers as subjects.
I want less government, more individual freedom, more consistent regulations and taxes across industries. I don’t want government picking private industry winners and losers.
I want freedom; you want a kingdom.
Do you believe the production decline and imports increase are our “normal” economic position?
What ever. Another boring Free Traitor™.
And you are back to insults, when you run of of meaningful discussion.
Interesting you do that in nearly every discussion.
If the noose fits....
You make up meaningless fantasy worlds that don’t exist and want a discussion based upon them.
I live and work in the real world. I’m not a fantasy writer. Pretending the world doesn’t exist doesn’t have any meaning in the real world.
Making markets smaller never end up in lower prices. You really should take a couple economic classes.
People of high intellect always construct scenarios that point out the edges of theory to better understand the workings and understand flaws. Some people are up to the challenge some aren't and as trained engineer I do this all the time. Test the limits and boundary conditions, go to edge that is where the real learning comes from . You seem incapable of that. Frankly you are either a coward or stupid in this particular case.
You keep telling yourself that.
Someday, you should learn economics if you want to discuss it.
I’m not sure how to respond
The large production increases were a change from “normal” and time will probably tell, disruptive to the status quo all around the world. I am not familiar with the current level of imports so can’t say much on that subject.
I was speaking of my perception of jobs in Texas. The number of jobs increased as the drilling increased and people came to fill them. That includes payroll clerks and waitresses and a host of other work that was tied to the boom. A fourth or fifth waitress or another cook at a Bar B Que place in Monahans is no longer required when the workers in the field are gone
I can’t say much about production decrease. That is a different and seemingly very complex animal. I expect some of the smaller companies will fall on hard times, but somewhere in Texas there is someone more than willing to buy their holdings.
The only constant is change but the rate seems quite variable.
Nice dodge buckwheat.
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