Posted on 12/17/2015 7:40:06 PM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans
Is a vanity allowed in Front Page News?
None of these three people during that time period were ever talking about deportation of illegal aliens. You're assuming that today's politics was active during that time period. They weren't.
They want border security, a moratorium on H1B’s, and deportations.
A bizarre and totally false statement, assuming you're still talking about back then. (You strangely shift to the present tense while, logically, you should be referring to the past.) Cruz's amendments sought to expand H1B Visas and to double green cards during that time period. Of course, deportation was never anything anybody was talking about.
Interesting that you would bring up Trump’s comments from 2012 to try to argue that Trump hasn’t made deportation an issue in this campaign. You’re trying to conflate two separate issue. Statements he made in 2012, and his consistent support for deportations since he’s entered the race. Nice try but no cigar. Trump was the only candidate coming out in favor of deporting all illegals. His 2012 comments don’t change that.
If you want to argue that you don’t believe what he’s saying today because of his comments in 2012, then you’re free to do so. But that’s a separate issue from arguing that his position since entering the campaign hasn’t been deportation of illegals. What do you think all the heat he took from the media for the first two months of his campaign was all about? His comments from 2012?
Also interesting that you would claim Cruz supports deportation because he opposed the Dream Act. Opposition to the Dream Act was support for the status quo. If deportation is the status quo, then why are we even discussing it? The problem isn’t the law. Deportation is the current penalty for illegal immigration, and has been for years. The problem is, our politicians don’t want to enforce the law. The Dream Act was an attempt to give official approval to our de facto current policy of non-deportation. Supporting the status quo does not mean one supports deportation enforcement. If the status quo was deportation enforcement, we wouldn’t have 11 million + illegals in our country.
Cruz has supported a different approach from the Dream Act. Border enforcement first, and then ‘a discussion’, which by his comments, seems to mean some form of legalization, rather than deportation.
I was directly responding to the assertion that it was Trump who brought deportation into focus— that it wasn’t mentioned prior to Trump’s entry into the race in June. I chose to refute this with statements from Sen. Cruz and Mr. Trump showing that Cruz discussed ending deportation relief—even threatened to shut down the government (again!) to stop it, while Trump’s comments about deportation prior to this year have been to call it maniacal. In other words: Trump didn’t start or even re-start talk about deportation, it’s been part of the conservative lexicon all this time.
Oppsition to the Dream Act was not support for the status quo. By advocating the end of Sactuary city and DREAMer amnesty, Cruz was de facto arguing that they be deported.
As for Cruz’s comments regarding deportation, I’ll leave you with this quote: “The President cannot pick and choose which laws he enforces. The penalty for being here illegally is deportation. As President I will enforce the law.”
Thank you for your response. I need to grab some sleep now, but will reply to any further comments come morning. God Bless you and yours.
I switched tense because I was pointing out that all 3 senators still want immigration reform, and I gave examples of what they think that reform should look like. just because they advocated for reform in 2013 and still advocate for reform in 2015 does not mean they are advocating for legalization or amnesty. Reform does not have to equal amnesty.
As for whether any of the three mentioned deportation in 2013, I will have to wait to look that up. It’s 2:30am.
G’night and God Bless
Cruz defined the type of "common sense immigration reform" he supported. It included bringing "those who are here illegally out of the shadows," and advised Congress to pass his amendments, which he believed would increase the chances of the bill passing in the House by a significant margin.
Eventually the unamended Gang of Eight bill passed the Senate, and very nearly passed the House, if not for the surprise win of Dave Brat, which had the GOPe in the House thinking twice
.
“By advocating the end of ... DREAMer amnesty, Cruz was de facto arguing that they be deported.”
That’s my point. It was a de facto support for deportation, not an explicit support for deportation. And while he said that a President must enforce existing law, he supported other attempts to change existing law as it pertained to illegal immigration and deportations.
It’s true that he opposed the Dream Act, but he supported a version of the Gang of 8 bill, that would have allowed for a process of legalization after border enforcement. His stance seems to be an acceptance of the Democrat meme, that large scale deportation of illegals hasn’t worked, because it’s impractical and therefore, the law needs to be changed to catch up with that reality.
That is different from Trump’s position since he started campaigning, which is support for deportation of all illegals in deed, not just in name. He has argued for that position as a matter of policy, not just as an obligation to follow the law. Trump has argued that deportation is the RIGHT policy. Cruz has said he will enforce the law but doesn’t appear to agrees with the law and has in fact, made attempts to change it.
Thanks for the discussion. It’s been enjoyable.
is it your wish to take Cruz down? How does your game pan work?
Does you plan involve supporting conservatives and conservative sites?
What is it that drives you so you need to go to such lengths to get folks to agree with you (prove that you're right even when you're 97% wrong)?
Want to do something positive???
Now for a short public service announcement to all on FR:
We need to ensure we don't get another Obama-like America Hater as the next President.
The best way to ensure that is to actively support a candidate as the next President.
I prefer Cruz and my money goes to his campaign, hence the Cruz link. If you like someone else, donate to him/her (find your own link to do it) and if you use FR and don't donate, then please don't complain about the welfare leeches or those who have Obama Phones because, functionally, you are no different than any other FReeloader
PS - If you are one of those who cannot afford even a small donation to FR or a candidate, God Bless and happy FReeping!.....
GO CRUZ!! Keep it up Trump!!
Yes, I also noticed that Rush Limbaugh does not stand still on issues either. He refines his position over the years, and I’m glad he does. The nation is changing rapidly; political correctness unravels at an exponential rate.
The entire nation was outraged:
Donald Trump Pledges To Secure Our Border Following San Francisco Pier 14 Fatal Shooting
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3307576/posts
Donald Trump reignited the call to secure U.S. borders just hours after federal officials said the man arrested in the shooting death of a San Francisco woman was an undocumented immigrant who had previously been deported five times...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We had lamented similar reports several times before, but this time we had a presidential candidate get outraged over it, and he channeled that moment of FRESH outrage to impact from sea to shining sea.
The immigration issue is evolving RAPIDLY. People for safe borders are now emboldened and expecting more of candidates.
Trump was also part of that evolution:
Trump Backed Amnesty For Illegal Aliens Only Last June
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3374072/posts
[This could be tricky if he hedges. He should be honest — his world view evolved as shocking events struck the Free World like a whirlwind.]
Then came the Paris Attacks quickly followed by San Bernadino. And gumming up political correctness is dangerous muslim refugees from Syria.
The next front might be the Ominous Omnibus:
Donald Trump —
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3373923/posts
“In order to avoid a government shutdown, a cowardly threat from an incompetent President, the elected Republicans in Congress threw in the towel and showed absolutely no budget discipline.” — Donald Trump
[Goes on. Scathing.]
LOL
True
Yet I was told yesterday "At least Trump has never flip-flopped like Cruz".
With some of these people, reasoning won't work, because they have taken complete leave of reality.
Such is the power of a cult of personality.
I will definitely support Cruz if he wins nomination, but I bite my lip everytime he says he will only deport criminal illegal aliens instead of all illegal aliens like Trump promises. Cruz’s ‘slickness’ sets off my politician radar far too often.
Trump’s better on illegal aliens, the Muslim problem and, jobs and trade. Plus Trump will beat Hilliary soundly, I think Cruz can.
I do wonder if Cruz would be more in line on these issues if he was worth 10 billion dollars, oh well it is what it is.
I DON’T think Cruz can beat Hilliary.
Thank you so much for all the research that went into your article.
I really wish that people would get it that this is not about flip flopping, (man I hate that term). But about honesty.
I was all in for Cruz. Watched his 20+ hour floor speech, signed the petition, made phone calls. But, the tpa vote that then lead to tpp has me really watching him much more carefully. His excuse of backroom deals being made? Seriously! Of course they were being made with this crowd. He should have expected that. Now, I think Trump is the better choice.
Again, no his version of immigration reform did not include, does not include legalization. He specifically used the Dem talking point “bringing people out of the shadows” in that committee testimony in order to highlight how incredibly false that premise was. They had no grand humanitarian intentions or they would have supported an amendment to remove the path to citizenship.
The Gang of 8 Bill was amended, by the way, just not by Cruz.
Cruz’s only attempt to change the law to rule out deportation was... never. He’s never suggested an amendment or bill that would rule out deportation. As to how he “supported” the Gang of 8 bill that allowed for legalization, please see any of the previous postings explaining his statements and amendments.
Thank you as well for a civil, rational exchange of ideas. It has been refreshing.
The amusing thing about all of this is that there is verifiable evidence that proves, beyond any reasonable doubt, that Cruz supported legalization both during and after the gang of eight fight. I wish I could know your psychology, what it's like to be in your shoes where, with a mixture of pride and faith, you can assert something that the plain evidence disproves. I cannot relate to it. At least, I hope that I cannot. God rescue me if ever I am as self-deluded as you folks!.
Juxtapose that to post after post showing you exactly how Cruz did NOT support legalization. Combine those posts with assertions from honored conservatives regarding the history of this issue. And yet you still maintain this line of discussion, nay, attack, with all the evidence to the contrary.
If there is delusion afoot here, you are just as much to blame.
We all feel your pain
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.