McCain and the USS Forrestal fire.

I will tonight be posting a piece exclusively on Free Republic about McCain and the USS Forrestal fire. This will HOPEFULLY put to rest ALL of the BS that is posted here concerning this event.

I'll back up that McCain was in no way responsible for that fire. I got out a few months after US Navy Vet enlisted. I too was on a carrier. In four years time you learn a lot about the ships operation protocols. I'm not sure what year they began doing it but in Basic at RTC Great Lakes we saw the video of the fire.

I saw the Navy's raw footage several more times afterward at the firefighting school just up the road from NOB Norfolk named after a Chief on the Forestall nicknamed The USS Buttercup a steel structure. I've spent a few days inside that. I saw ithe footage again on the ship in Fire Dept Training two different times at least.

On my ship starting in late 1979 we went to a full time in port and at sea combined departments and ratings Fire Department. It was a stand alone division manned by T.A.D. pooling. I was on it in the 78 yard period and volunteered for it again in the yards in the upcoming overhaul. In 1980 Overhaul I was One on One for my duty section. I think I have reasonable knowledge in the area of shipboard fire fighting. Second job was repair station and hose station maintenance and fire safety. Third job was doing PQS training in DC.

McCain's plane at the second the missle was launched and minutes before that was parked forward Port side about two planes behind the JBD. The ass end of his plane pointed to the sea. The front of his plane pointed headed forward. The errant launch came from a plane parked Starboard aft and hit the plane beside McCains. That is stone cold uncontested by crew fact and a lot more sites than WIKI show it was well as the horrific FD Footage does. McCain didn't decide launch order of planes or his spot parked on deck. Air Boss did that up on the Bridge for many reasons including ones effecting the ships List.

This crap reminds me an a poster in here many years ago JimRob Nuked. His great conspiracy was we sank the Russian submarine Kursk and one of our subs was down because it did not surface nor break silence.

US Navy Vet said he was an ABH I believe him. ABH is Aviation Bosuns Mate they handled everything from moving aircraft to Flight Deck fire and rescue. The team was indeed called Crash and Salvage or Crash and Smash a nickname. It was the job that required a literal asbestos suit IIRC. I know the guys on the fire truck wore them. Yes I could consider his opinion expert level.

Three major carrier fires occurred within months of each other. Those incidents changed how the Navy did firefighting. The Flight Deck & Hanger Deck sprinklers automatic foaming system called a Hi-CAP came from that. A Hi Cap could foam the decks in second but in the case of The Forestall it likely would not have prevented what happened after the missle launched starting the fire.

Next thing someone will tell me is Robert McNamara changed CVN 66 nuclear to CVA 66 conventional at the last minute. I know the actual reason that long standing rumor began.

One of the more interesting charges I’ve seen against McCain is that after egressing his aircraft he took shelter below deck rather than help fight the fire.

Iirc, the Navy policy (either formal or informal) was to get the pilots out of the way and to safety in the event of fire or combat damage. This dated to the late WWII kamikaze attacks on ships like the Franklin and Bunker Hill that killed a lot of pilots as they sat in their ready rooms right below the flight deck.

The cold and brutal reality being that pilots, with serious investment in their training were more valuable and less expendible than most others on board the carriers.

In fact, for the Essex class carriers that went through the various SCB upgrades, the ready rooms were relocated to below the hangar deck to better protect the pilots. If you look below their islands you can see the angled enclosure for an escalator that was added to allow them to get to the flightdeck without climbing up a bunch of ladders with all their gear.

Also, mind refreshing my memory on the whole CVN-66 thing? I remember reading that Enterprise was supposed to be the lead of a class of five or six nuke carriers, but the idea was dropped pretty quickly once her construction costs were figured out. So America was planned from the start to be conventional, no last minute change ...

One of the more interesting charges I’ve seen against McCain is that after egressing his aircraft he took shelter below deck rather than help fight the fire.

He did the right thing though. If in a shipboard fire without gear get out if possible then gear up. Within a minute of the missile incident the ship went to GQ thus he would have reported to the Ready Room at that point.

I walked away from a fire myself one night. I was T.A.D to the fire dept at the time but not on duty that night. Me and a buddy walked by a storeroom & saw smoke coming from the hatch. Rather than have a look see {dumb idea to do that without OBA on and charged hoses} I ran to the QD and announced the fire over the 1MC because the phones were out. We were in the yards. The duty section team took the fire and I went back up to a Ready Room we were using on the 03 level for our base & suited up to investigate adjoining spaces of the fire. If I had opened the hatch instead of reporting it? I could have killed myself and others doing so. You have to think before you react if you have time to do so that is.

In the case of McCain too it would taken considerable time to foam the deck. The Hi Caps hadn't been developed yet and foaming was a manual and manpower consuming almost bucket brigade type operation. Some accounts say he helped get White the pilot next to him who's plane was struck off the FD as well. White died later.

In fact, for the Essex class carriers that went through the various SCB upgrades, the ready rooms were relocated to below the hangar deck to better protect the pilots. If you look below their islands you can see the angled enclosure for an escalator that was added to allow them to get to the flight deck without climbing up a bunch of ladders with all their gear.

Thanks I didn't realize that. I haven't studied them much to be honest. People don't think about things but on a carrier the Captain and Admiral share a passenger elevator. When I first heard about it I thought it was a joke LOL.

It could have also been a fueling availability issue on the nukes and training of operators. Rickover as I understand it wasn't pleased about having nuclear propulsion plant carriers. He pushed for subs.

Things were changing real fast propulsion plant wise. Forestall although the first super carrier wasn't such in propulsion plant design. It had 8-600PSI Boilers and Saratoga to follow was the first super carrier with a 1200PSI 8 boiler configuration. Enterprise IIRC had a 8-1200 PSI 8 reactors set up. Eight reactor set up would tie up a lot of operators vs the Nimitz Class 2 reactor configuration and time to address all issues as well as Rickover's diminished influences.

There was a long standing rumor AMERICA CVA 66 was supposed to have been a Nuke and McNamara had changed the order upon assuming Sec of Defense. The problem with that is the time frames of keel laid vs his taking office. Award Date: 11/25/1960 under Ike and Keel Date: 01/09/1961 still under Ike. McNamara was not involved in the decision process. Yes the America was always intended to be a CVA/CV McNamara would have been involved in awarding the next carrier class the John F Kennedy class also conventional. Award Date: 04/30/1964.

Once a carriers is awarded and the Keel laid it is what it is at that point. It would be cheaper and faster to cancel the build entirely and re-award the ship. Fueling the rumor was two things the dislike of McNamara and a typo on some of the ships plans in DC Central with a ~~CVN 66~~ and CVA 66. It was shown on a few of the prints mainly axillary piping for the chill water system etc from what I remember about them. I thought it odd but at the time didn't think about it. I just remember seeing them while I was trying to track down an ongoing phantom chill water loss mystery.

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