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F-35 beaten in a dogfight by F-16
Daily Mail ^ | 6/30/15 | Imogen Calderwood

Posted on 06/30/2015 11:52:34 AM PDT by Teflonic

click here to read article


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To: LeonardFMason

It was caught Raptored?


21 posted on 06/30/2015 12:16:07 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

Thank you for some actual information!


22 posted on 06/30/2015 12:16:18 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, deport all illegal aliens, abolish the IRS, DEA and ATF.)
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To: LeonardFMason

“What happened to the F-22 ?”

I don’t know all of the tactical and technical reasons the F-22 production program was cancelled.
However, I understand that it’s $49,000 cost per flight hour, and needing engine over haul after several hundred hours, was a factor.

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-shows-hourly-cost-of-military-aircraft-2014-12

From what I can tell, the US will lose air superiority in the not too distant future due to Russia and China fifth generation fighter jet developments, and having larger numbers of aircraft.
Not surprising, though.
After all, Obola, our Nero II is in the role of Commander-in-chief.


23 posted on 06/30/2015 12:17:17 PM PDT by MarchonDC09122009 (When is our next march on DC? When have we had enough?)
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To: CommerceComet
Yes, but only the Iranians fly them any more. IIRC, SecDef Cheney had the tooling for the F-14 destroyed, too.

No recourse if the F-18 didn't pan out ...

24 posted on 06/30/2015 12:17:20 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Vendome

Having read the article it was beaten by the plane not the pilot.


25 posted on 06/30/2015 12:18:07 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Teflonic

Won’t we reach a point where a human pilot isn’t needed?


26 posted on 06/30/2015 12:18:36 PM PDT by Cry if I Wanna
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To: Vendome
That is mostly true and that is why I continue to argue that fighter drones will not be all that effective. The pilot will be in the cockpit for a long time to come.

I am biased about the F-16, I helped build them and their various AISs.

The plane has stunned everybody that has come up against it. It is a national defense treasure.

27 posted on 06/30/2015 12:19:21 PM PDT by pfflier
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To: Teflonic

Why would the Air Force show anybody the maximum capability of the F-35? I would guess that they aren’t going to lay out in plain view exactly what this plane can do. Let the Russians and Chinese find out for themselves when they decide to engage.


28 posted on 06/30/2015 12:19:22 PM PDT by joemsewi
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To: Teflonic

The F-16 is a 40 year old aircraft that is still one of the best tactical A-A (dogfighting) platforms in the world. 9G turns, guns and missiles, great visibility outside the cockpit. Hard to beat. The F-35 on the other hand is intended to serve multiple roles as tactical fighter/CAS/suppression of integrated air defense systems. etc., and may not perform visual BFM with the same competency as a Viper, but the F-35 is equipped to perform its A-A at well beyond LOS and never appear on an adversary’s fire control. The F-35 isn’t meant to be an air superiority fighter, that’s the roll the F-22 and F-15 fill. Just my $.02.


29 posted on 06/30/2015 12:24:27 PM PDT by Afterguard (Liberals will let you do anything you want, as long as it's mandatory.)
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To: drbuzzard
The problem you are ignoring is that the F-35 is supposed to be all things to all people. It's a gun fighter, air superiority, close air support, stealth bomber, carrier launched. But most importantly, it's making a group of recently retired generals super rich on the government teat/Lockheed programs.

So what if it can't do any of these things well enough to actually survive? It's not like anyone in the program will have to risk his life flying in combat.

Oh, wait...

30 posted on 06/30/2015 12:26:27 PM PDT by jonascord (It's sarcasm unless otherwise noted...)
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To: Vendome

Tower, this is Ghost Rider requesting a flyby.


31 posted on 06/30/2015 12:26:45 PM PDT by drewh
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To: LeonardFMason

They built a couple of hundred then eventually decided the USAF wouldn’t need a new air-superiority fighter for a couple of decades. And the F-22 AFAIK isn’t much good at anything else. Its not so hot at bombing things, which is most of what the USAF wants to do.

This was a good point, 1991-to today. There still isn’t much technical competition for the USAF, and even the Chinese will still take a decade or so to come up with any significant numbers of comparable aircraft.

The end of the Pax Americana is in sight though.

It seems that it wont take that much to restart F-22 production if necessary.


32 posted on 06/30/2015 12:28:16 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: drbuzzard
They said exactly the same thing about dogfights in the late 1950’s.
33 posted on 06/30/2015 12:29:05 PM PDT by MCF (If my home can't be my Castle, then it will be my Alamo.)
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To: Teflonic; blueyon; KitJ; T Minus Four; xzins; CMS; The Sailor; ab01; txradioguy; Jet Jaguar; ...

Active Duty ping.


34 posted on 06/30/2015 12:29:08 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: LeonardFMason

The F-22 developed some problem with its O2 supply, and they used that to basically halt it.

The F-22 was a world beater. It was not meant for dogfighting either. Usually opposing jets were lit up before, or just after they entered the box.


35 posted on 06/30/2015 12:31:11 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: LeonardFMason
Duh, the F-22 is an air superiority fighter with a production cost almost twice as much as the F-35. Unfortunately, for all the "kill the F-35 and buy more F-22" crowd, the biggest air to ground munition you can fit in an F-22 is a 250 lb. small diameter bomb. You need the F-35 for bring the big stuff to the target.

All of this was predicated on a concept the Air Force had a decade ago. They decided no non-stealth aircraft would be allowed into known missile engagement zones in the next generation of aircraft.

36 posted on 06/30/2015 12:31:19 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Teflonic

It’s unfair to use the F-35 in any engagement it’s not designed for. For example, long distance, when it has to carry fuel tanks and loses stealth. Or close-in, when it’s lack of power betrays it. It is only supposed to be used for in-between missions. We just have to get an agreement from other side to fight wars on our terms.


37 posted on 06/30/2015 12:31:47 PM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: pfflier

“I am biased about the F-16”

Me too - was in the 388 TFW when it became the 1st combat ready F-16 Wing back in 1979.


38 posted on 06/30/2015 12:33:03 PM PDT by Sparky1776
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To: Vendome
Nope, the F-22 is not intended to be a dog fighter. USAF revisit an old fail strategy from Vietnam.

National Review Article

39 posted on 06/30/2015 12:33:06 PM PDT by 11th Commandment ("THOSE WHO TIRE LOSE")
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To: LeonardFMason
What happened to F-22?

Remember Obama said it was out dated.

40 posted on 06/30/2015 12:33:54 PM PDT by 11th Commandment ("THOSE WHO TIRE LOSE")
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