Posted on 05/31/2015 8:53:28 AM PDT by SleeperCatcher
Should government – primarily state and local government – be able to prevent someone from actually working in a field or profession after they have spent tens of thousands of dollars and perhaps many years on an education from an accredited college or university?
Unfortunately, too many states and localities believe the answer to that question is “yes.” Their attitude is that unless government gives its seal of approval – and always for a fee, of course – then somehow trained, qualified and educated men and women are not fit to practice their craft.
It’s time to dispel this myth.
(Excerpt) Read more at absoluterights.com ...
I get the point of the article and the author uses great illustrations of the issue in various fields. Upon closer evaluation, many of those cases expose the fact that those already in the occupation don’t want any more competition so the licenses/training/testing are set up as barriers to entry.
All the above said, there are cases that prove the old railroad saying about the operating rules being “written in blood.” Nearly every administrative rule or licensing test has some root in a bad outcome from a previous practitioner that allowed an authority to determine that it could have been avoided through training and testing and licensing.
I understand your point but will add the power of the state license cuts several ways.
Yes it can be a PITA and prove nothing at times. But it makes those in a business understand if they get complaints and do shoddy work, whether it be barbers, attorneys, fortune tellers or building contractors that they can lose their right to do that business. It is a hammer that is not always perfect but it serves consumers whose only other recourse might be to get shafted or get a lawyer.
The other aspect of this is in the trades. An unseen function that many trade unions provide is ensuring that workers doing a trades job have some competence. If you go to many countries that do not have means of ensuring competent workers on large construction jobs the result is not a positive. Employers want their employees trained and capable, and today many are not willing to spend their time and money to do that.
Why give any more power to the Universities? I’m for more tests, ideally administered by an industry body’s self-regulatory organization, that don’t require some liberal school’s approval.
Is a College Education Still Worth the Cost?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3295293/posts
Education System now Graduating Al Gores from public schools
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3295289/posts
I understand both your points - but
1) T-bird’s “written in blood” can be handled through industry regs vs licensing just like they do for non-trades. It amazes me the reg requirements and govt inspections that med device manaufacturers have - but then the actual users have minimal govt oversight because they “self police” through hospital and doctor board oversight - yeah right. So the licenses should be replaced with inspections - like they do with restaurants to ensure the minimal accepted safety studs are met - and they should ONLY be safety stds - not documentation and other stuff. And plenty of those with the paper are still incompetent so is it really only allowing those already in to be lax or driving improvements?
2) Apoliticalone - I have seen my fair share of certified, licensed, and otherwise ‘qualified’ personnel in union/non-union; hourly/non-hourly roles that couldn’t competently do their job and when called out pulled their cert as a - you can’t tell me what i’m doing is wrong so it must be something you did card. Everything from doctors - engineers - electricians - plumbers - barbers - mechanics - auditors - accountants to lawyers. A piece of paper just says you finished some classes, were shadowed/reviewed or acted as a slave for someone that already had a piece of paper, and filled out some paperwork - not that they are competent.
The real reasons for it are A) barriers to entry for those already in and coating the politicians palms and B) another source of $ for the govt to control and prevent from going someplace else.
My personal preference would be industry run certs - like a seal of approval - that are not required for biz, but provide the necessary basics to address the most common failings. With clear requirements that aren’t modified - new tech, new certs, old tech - old certs are ok. Then it’s the consumers responsibility for due diligence. MAYBE - depending on risk - liability insurance to be mandated by law, but limited to safety failures - otherwise go to small claims.
Dad could sweat a pipe, wire a breaker panel, and maintain coolants with the best of them, but because of a piece of paper he could only take certain jobs - that he often went in to fix later. That’s bunk.
“Why give any more power to the Universities? I’m for more tests, ideally administered by an industry body’s self-regulatory organization, that don’t require some liberal school’s approval.”
Well, that’s a problem too because the “industry bodies” are part of the problem in that they are behind the “laws” whose main function is to “limit” the number of people who are able to do whatever it is that they do. I read that in Floriduh, you have to be “licensed” to be a florist and that the “Licensed Florists” are able, through the licensing law to prevent anyone from joining them. Hence, they can limit florists and keep prices charged up.
Government needs to get out of “licensing” most every activity except medicine and law. If you don’t like your haircut, just go somewhere else!
Sure, I want to be operated on by some affirmative action admission M.D. that’s too stupid to pass his exams.
And if you want to sue me, be sure to hire an affirmative action law school graduate who has flunked the bar exam a half dozen times.
The most current point to licensing is the great number of immigrant trades workers who are not trained correctly and never practiced good trade skills in Mexico, or wherever they arrived from.
The “industries” have profits to consider and immigrant trades people are cheaper.
Let’s take real estate, for instance, before all parties from realtors to appraisers were State licensed it was Customer Beware. Yeah, I don’t like having to spend hundreds every year on Continuing Education (which is often a partial waste of time) and State licensing, but otherwise if there was no regulation there are many who would never consider honesty or ethics in any deal. Because of the regulation and licensing, now both me and customers have some protection from shoddy crooks.
One of the primary functions of government is to protect its citizens, not just from foreign invaders, but from “snake oil” patent medicine peddlers and people that would cut every corner and build you a house or repair your car like in some 3rd world country.
Because of the regulation and licensing, now both me and customers have some protection from shoddy crooks.
hardly it’s been that way since the 60s and just getting worse - now a lady can’t even open a hair salon without having to get “licensed” and people have to watch if they babysit for their friends for a day if there are more than a certain #...to the point some states pretty much required union membership.
Yes - there is an issue recently from the immigrant influx - course they don’t follow the flippin’ rules in the first place - since most are here illegally in one form or another (no visa, expired visa, wrong visa). So how are we protected if they are doing things they aren’t supposed to anyway? We aren’t - we’re just punishing the people who follow the rules - which means the rules shouldn’t be there in the first place.
Regulation has exceeded it’s worth...it needs rolled back in a big way.
Case in point: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3295398/posts
Government projects, like construction and whatnot, should require certain licenses. But you shouldn’t be banned from practicing your craft just because you can;t afford to pay for a bunch of state licensing.
Most professions have professional organizations that have their own certifications. Just like the BBB for businesses, Private organizations are plenty capable of guaranteeing the competency level of certain people. The market will send people who want that guarantee to the licensed people, and there will be plenty of other people who go to an unlicensed shop because they can still do the job, and likely much cheaper.
No Rules libertarians got a screw loose.
Hell man, hair dressers have had to pass a State Board and be licensed since the 40’s. Care for a nice infection from a nick with dirty scissors to go with the head lice?
Only folks I have ever heard of that pissnmoan about licensing are those that couldn’t pass the test or are trying to pull something.
Nothing about those who can’t afford the license or classes or under the table payoffs but have the skills though I’m sure.
And not every state requires the same licensing and most that do are different depending on the state.
Thanks for proving my point.
What can we do to reform that
Thanks for proving mine - you just admitted it isn’t about the skills
Guess if ya likes them 3rd world level skills you’ll be fine with the greater chance of low quality, injury, ripped off or scammed.
What’s the libertarian solution to rolling the dice and getting shoddy? Shoot em?
My dad whom i used as an example is 6 generation post-revolution and I’m 7th, so hardly 3rd world.
Again you didn’t address the issue of those who pay for it but still provide shoddy work vs those who do good work and just don’t have a piece of paper.
Already said use Liability insurance and small claims or other courts for those who don’t perform.
I’ll agree to disagree.
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