Looking Under the Hood of an Article V Convention, Part I

therightplanet.com ^ | 4/21/15 | Brent Parrish

[cotton1706]

“The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” —Thomas Jefferson

“A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people.” —James Madison

“The accumulation of power in the same hands may be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.” —James Madison

“For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth—to know the worst and to provide for it.” —Patrick Henry

There has been quite a bit of banter as of late about calling an Article V convention to amend the Constitution in the hope that it will rein in our out-of-control federal government. The desire to call a constitutional convention is not just restrained to one side of the political spectrum; it is coming from both sides.

So just who is it that is pushing for an Article V Convention, and why? And just what is an Article V Convention, anyway?

A number of “right-wing” groups are actively promoting the call for a convention, such as the Convention of States Project (COS), Compact for America, American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), Balanced Budget Amendment Task Force, Middle Resolution, and others.

There are also a number of individuals and groups on the left to far left-side of the political spectrum who support the idea of calling a convention, including Wolf PAC, Alliance for Democracy, Center for Media and Democracy, Code Pink, Independent Progressive Politics Network, Progressive Democrats of America, Sierra Club, Vermont Single-Payer, Moveon.org, Green Party, Occupy Movement, Young Turks, George Soros, Prof. Lawrence Lessig, Sandy Levinson, and others.

[Jacquerie]

Delegates, not reps, from the states will attend a convention. Delegates will have commissions which detail the scope of their actions. There is zero chance for a “runaway” convention.

[EternalVigilance]

The problem is not the Constitution. It is the failure of our representatives to keep their oaths to support and defend it.

So, the task at hand is not to amend the Constitution. It is to get representatives who will keep their oaths.

[Slyfox]

The reason why our Founders were successful at writing the Constitution was that they were all on the same page philosophically.

No, this is a fact. They were all trained in the very same moral philosophy. If they had not been trained that way our Constitution would not have been written so quickly. And when Benjamin Franklin reminded them to pray, they did just that and remembered their earlier training and finished the job. That is why it was considered "a miracle."

Politically they certainly did not all agree - Federalists and AntiFederalists - but as they were putting the principles of the Constitution together, especially when they wrote the Bill of Rights they were all on the very same page philosophically.

[Jacquerie]

Philosophical differences caused the federal convention to nearly break up in July of 1787. Why did the constitution pass by so few votes among the states? Why did Rhode Island boycott the federal convention and NC and RI take so long to ratify it?

Free government is messy. Our history proves it. Nobody expects a cakewalk at a state amendment convention.

[Jacquerie]

As our history shows, reliance on the virtue of those we send to DC is a sure path to tyranny.

The Framers relied on the structure of government, especially the division of power, to secure our rights.

There is nothing to lose, and everything to gain from a process that doesn’t involve our masters in DC.

[Art in Idaho]

I agree with you. We need to begin enforcing current laws, but they are ignoring this. Our current immigration laws are a good example. We are not ignoring them, the uniparty and embedded bureaucracy are. I see it as do nothing and proceed to #5 as mentioned above or attempt Article V.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

I'm in favor of a convention of the states, not because I think it will work, but because it will at least shake things up and get the public focused on civics for a little while.

The main reason conservatives are asking for a convention of the states, whatever claims they make to the contrary, is that they believe that since right now a majority of states are right-leaning Republican we can get what we want through the states more easily than the RINO-led congress.

The same thinking was behind the Republican support of imperial presidents, i.e. we didn't have the votes in congress but we had the Whitehouse, so give more power to the Whitehouse.

An Article V convention might just work. It may be the case that regardless of what amendments get passed in the convention, only conservative ones will get the OK of 3/4ths of the states.

But then just as Obama took on the imperial powers granted to him by a prior Republican administration, some future Article V convention in a US where the majority of state legislatures are run by Democrats will be able to overturn what any previous Article V convention had accomplished and turn this country more forcefully toward socialism.

Still it's worth the gamble, the excitement, and the educational opportunities it would afford.

Let's all take the red pill for once!

[dware]

We are not ignoring them, the uniparty and embedded bureaucracy are.

In truth, we ARE ignoring them, because we continue to consent to the nonsense - "Governments...derive their just powers from the CONSENT of the governed"

We consent to the nonsense by participating in it. Tired of a corrupt financial system? You CONSENT to it every time you spend or accept an FRN. Tired of a corrupt, criminal tax system? You CONSENT to it every time you file your taxes. Tired of the destruction of the 2nd Amendment? You CONSENT to it every time you walk into a gun store and submit to a background check.

Here's an idea: stop consenting.

[MarchonDC09122009]

There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root. - Henry David Thoreau

Root problem is Not our US Constitution’s imperfection.
The root cause of our ills is largely due to the terrible state of US citizen voters.
We’d be Much better off focusing great attention and effort to improve our citizens thru Brilliant thought provoking message in order wholistically affect optimal change for the better.
I promise that we will rue the day we perform open heart surgery on the constitution with 50 states all wanting to join in and make their incisions. Once the dems, unions, establishment politicians, media, big business, academia, and foreign interests exert their influence, the surgery will result in a terrible Frankenstein. Kiss the 2nd, and 1st ammendment good bye.
Events will go as follows:
Constitutional ammendment convention of states arrives
Crisis occurs, ie: economy crashes
Panic ensues
Media and fed gov’t respond that we need a stronger fed gov’t to cope with the crisis, and prevent future reoccurence.
State governors and legislators get threatening call to cooperate, and support initiatives authored by foreign and establishment puppet-masters.
Constitution changes made accordingly, to the bewilderment of many traditional constitutionalists. Concern and objection about abridging the constitution is squelched by media for the greater good, just as in the case with Obolacare dissent.
Be very careful what you wish for on opening this Pandora’s box.
Do you really trust the many wolves who are hungry to eviserate our constitution, to be involved in altering it?
Will everyone be moral, just, and reasonable?

[Art in Idaho]

An Article V convention might just work. It may be the case that regardless of what amendments get passed in the convention, only conservative ones will get the OK of 3/4ths of the states. . . Still it's worth the gamble, the excitement, and the educational opportunities it would afford.

It's certainly better than the course we are on. As you say, it might just work and the whole process will be very educational, maybe even to the low information voters.

[TomGuy]

1. Elect More Republicans - Failed due to RINO/Uni-party confluence.

Who do you think is going to be appointing the delegates to a convention?

That same RINO/Uni-party confluence at the state level.

Then, who will be voting on the amendments from said convention?

It will not be the citizenry. Instead, it will be that same RINO/Uni-party confluence at the state level.

Political parties in states that do not play along will lose political donations from the national party and quite possibly retribution via entitlements and future Federal government contracts.

==

The so-called Tea Party elements of the Republican party have had 2 opportunities to de-seat Boehner -- 2012 and 2014. They failed both times because members folded and capitulated.

What makes anyone think a similar Republican delegation will not do the same behind closed doors of a Constitutional Convention?

Part of McConnell's sales pitch for a Republican Senate Majority was that they would prove they could lead -- unlike the last majority under Frist/Lott.

Do you trust McConnell now?

I don't trust any of them -- and especially not with them behind closed doors tinkering with The Bill of Rights. It is already hanging by a thread. They will be cutting the final strands.

[Art in Idaho]

The root cause of our ills is largely due to the terrible state of US citizen voters. . We’d be Much better off focusing great attention and effort to improve our citizens thru Brilliant thought provoking message in order wholistically affect optimal change for the better.

Couldn't agree more. Part of the reason we're all here at Free Republic. I hope enough people drop by and word of mouth gets out and people discover us, especially before Nov 8, 2016.

Be very careful what you wish for on opening this Pandora’s box. Do you really trust the many wolves who are hungry to eviscerate our constitution, to be involved in altering it? Will everyone be moral, just, and reasonable?

The scenario you describe may happen. What is going to happen if Article V is not attempted? We now have an out of control soft tyranny that is escalating daily. "We the People" have taxation without representation, NSA surveillance, burdensome bureaucratic regulations and gradual lessening of basic freedoms. Does that sound familiar? At a different time in our history people started a revolution when confronted with same. Article V is our last ditch attempt before that option.

[Art in Idaho]

Who do you think is going to be appointing the delegates to a convention? That same RINO/Uni-party confluence at the state level. . . Political parties in states that do not play along will lose political donations from the national party and quite possibly retribution via entitlements and future Federal government contracts.

Maybe I naively think the state Republicans are of a different ilk. Will they cave as you describe? Maybe. I keep getting back to the "What will happen if we do nothing?" thought. What if things continue to get worse and the Statehouses see themselves as the modern day Paul and Paulette Reveres and see it as their duty to fight come what may? Will they resist the Federal juggernaut? Will donations, entitlements and contracts trump the survival of America? When it's glaringly obvious, will they again become local Sons and Daughters of Liberty?

I take solace about Article V Convention fears from a few sentences by Sarah Palin: "Whatever amendments the Convention proposes will not take effect until three-fourths of the States ratify them. That’s 38 States. By definition, if 38 States agree on an amendment it’s not runaway. It’s a mandate!"

It will be difficult under the best of circumstances to get 38 states to agree on an amendment.

Again, what other option(s) do we have?

[Da Bilge Troll]

"In any Article 5 convention, the 2nd Amendment would then first thing on the chopping block"

The 2nd Amendment is already on the chopping block. One more progressive vote on the Supreme Court and it's gone. Poof!

The fact is, any 13 states could stop any such amendment coming from a convention. Why do you support the status quo?

[dware]

It will be difficult under the best of circumstances to get 38 states to agree on an amendment.

Which would ultimately mean that all of the time and energy and $$$ - time, energy and $$$ that could be spent on other, more effective things - will have been wasted on an Article V convention that produces...nothing.

I agree that we need to do SOMETHING, and I also agree that an Article V convention could potentially bring about some meaningful change, but I also believe that it WILL include changes we DON'T want to see, and that have just as much of a chance to pass as the good ones do. Plus, I am also extremely wary of those that would choose the delegates, etc. The Republican party, even on the State level, is not be trusted. They have proven this over and over again.

Think the states are stronger and therefore less susceptible to flip flopping? The Govs of Indiana and Arkansas might find that to be news.

[GILTN1stborn]

here is a link directly addressing the JBS for your list
http://www.conventionofstates.com/john_birch_society_denies_history?utm_source=Convention+of+States+Project&utm_campaign=a0d0d5de5e-COS_Weekly_Roundup_4_15_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_45196125c1-a0d0d5de5e-214850825

[Art in Idaho]

here is a link directly addressing the JBS for your list

Thank you. Will add to the list.