Skip to comments.Looking Under the Hood of an Article V Convention, Part I
Posted on 04/22/2015 9:19:26 AM PDT by cotton1706
The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Thomas Jefferson
A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people. James Madison
The accumulation of power in the same hands may be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. James Madison
For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truthto know the worst and to provide for it. Patrick Henry
There has been quite a bit of banter as of late about calling an Article V convention to amend the Constitution in the hope that it will rein in our out-of-control federal government. The desire to call a constitutional convention is not just restrained to one side of the political spectrum; it is coming from both sides.
So just who is it that is pushing for an Article V Convention, and why? And just what is an Article V Convention, anyway?
A number of right-wing groups are actively promoting the call for a convention, such as the Convention of States Project (COS), Compact for America, American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), Balanced Budget Amendment Task Force, Middle Resolution, and others.
There are also a number of individuals and groups on the left to far left-side of the political spectrum who support the idea of calling a convention, including Wolf PAC, Alliance for Democracy, Center for Media and Democracy, Code Pink, Independent Progressive Politics Network, Progressive Democrats of America, Sierra Club, Vermont Single-Payer, Moveon.org, Green Party, Occupy Movement, Young Turks, George Soros, Prof. Lawrence Lessig, Sandy Levinson, and others.
(Excerpt) Read more at therightplanet.com ...
Chance of this happening is “slim” “fat” take your pick. Would be too hard to get the 2/3rds of the states to agree/call for a convention.
A COS would become a media circus, but aside from that, many would try to disrupt the proceedings, many would try and succeed to infiltrate the assembly. There would be proposals to scrap the Bill of Rights and other such nonsense, that would get nowhere.
If any proposed amendments actually get passed out of the chaos, then the states would have to ratify them, with much emphasis on RAT.
The ‘rats would inevitably try to scrap them in the state legislatures if there were some actual good amendments limiting the power of the Federal government.
The scare tactics and fear mongering ads would be all over the radio, TV, Internet, and print media endlessly for however many years it takes to ratify them, which period can be limited as part of the amendment itself.................
Article V ping.
Make no mistake: they WILL get their proposals on the table, and the right WILL cave to many of their demands. Yes, good proposals that stand a chance of ratification will make it as well, but so will the leftist's proposals, aided by the surrender monkeys in the GOP.
Be very, very careful what you wish for here. This WILL NOT be all rainbows and unicorns, as Levin and other supporters are touting it to be.
Precisely. If we want to get any of our proposals on the table, there will need to be "compromise" with the left, which we all know full well means that the right will cave to the left's demands.
In any Article 5 convention, the 2nd Amendment would then first thing on the chopping block ... That you can bank on.
And how many GOPe’ers do you think would go along with that to get what they want? Dare I say all of them.
We also have to worry about big business.
Big business would prefer it if there were no states. If the state laws were identical to the federal laws. They would argue, as they always do, that it's just best for business.
Also, a lot of states, even those that are supposedly conservative get a lot of money from the feds. They may think twice if passing a particular amendment might stop the gravy train.
The RINO’s in Congress are already caving, at least there would be a way to stop the demise of the USA.
Boehner and McConnel would have no input to the convention of the states.
The state legislatures are more answerable to the people than the folks who go to DC.
A majority of state legislatures are controlled by Republicans.
Does anyone think the DC crowd would ever propose and pass a term limit amendment for Congress?
And there in lies the problem. We on the right follow the rules. The left decide what rule they "feel" like following.
The reason why our Founders were successful at writing the Constitution was that they were all on the same page philosophically.
The French Revolution was a result of conflicting philosophies who's only option was to go after each other's throats.
I understand Mark Levin's push for it but we will have people jumping on board who are so out of our Founders league that it will be one huge conflagrating mess.
During the writing of the Constitution, George Washington ordered that there be no communication with others outside the hall.
Who will make sure that MoveOn.org and George Soros will play nice?
Completely agree with your concerns and caution.
I have little doubt that corrupt democrats will seize the opportunity to co-opt the convention process.
Nor would I put it past them to initiate an emergency of some sort to ensure they achieve their goal of ever more power.
Democrats, Rinos, Gov’t employees, Mainstream Media, Unions, Educators and complicit big business will will be sure to sabotage any effort to rein in their power and influence.
The only approach to save this country, would be to change all citizen’s values, beliefs and interests to that which is most constructive to preserve our republic, supporting only moral, selfless candidates who are worth of our vote.
We have become immoral, partially because we have willingly lost our moral compass when we rejected Christainity’s best practices.
Our constitution nor form of government is not to blame for our current decline, and abuses of power.
Apathy and acceptance of corrupt politicians is our undoing.
IIRC, an Article V convention was used to ratify the 21st Amendment that repealed Prohibition. It was single purpose, specific, and intended to consummate what was already an extremely popular movement to make alcohol legal once again.
Article V was used to `bypass’ state legislatures still controlled by temperance supporters that would have blocked ratification. BTW the 21st Amendment only repealed Federal prohibition & left it up to the states to go wet or remain dry.
This latest Article V initiative sounds more like a Constituent Assembly which seeks to create a brand new or heavily amended Constitution and could quickly dissolve into a general free-for-all, given the wildly disparate groups supporting its convening.
To summarize from a previous post by GraceG:
1. Elect More Republicans - Failed due to RINO/Uni-party confluence.
2. Article V Convention of States to propose Amendments - Needed to try to take power from the federal government back to the states and reel in the federal leviathan.
3. State Nullification - Last ditch effort to try to take power back from the federal monster, though by this point it may be too late.
4. State Secession - Could either end up peaceably like the breakup of the Czechoslovakia in 1993 or a brutal:
5. Civil War II like the first one.... The longer we wait on #2, the more likely #3, then #4 and finally #5. .
So, do we do nothing and just wait for # 5?
Quick review: We need 34 states to pass an application, then Congress shall, by law, call a Convention of States as soon as it receives applications from 2/3 of the State Legislatures. That's 34 states. We now have 30 working on it. Amendments are proposed and voted on at the convention. Each Amendment must be ratified by ¾ of the states in order to become part of the US Constitution. Thats 38 states.
There are far more political and legal constraints on a runaway convention than on a runaway Congress. - Robert Natelson
Most FReepers are aware of these links, but I post anyway for review and for people new to Article V. It is our responsibility to make Article V the most understood aspect of the US Constitution.
****Please see this summary video from Alabama first: Convention of States - Alabama Way to go Alabama! A great introduction!
Convention of States Live! with Mike Farris
The Case for an Article V Convention. Great explanation of an Article V convention to the Massachusetts State Legislature.
**** Convention of States Lots of information here.
Call a Convention A call for a Convention of States
Article V Project to Restore Liberty Another good source.
A Summary of Mark Levins Proposed Amendments by Jacquerie
We can fight the uniparty! States, the Natural Second Party by Jacquerie
Congress Present Duty to Call a Convention:
Ulysses at the Mast: Democracy, Federalism, and the Sirens' Song of the Seventeenth Amendment by Jay Bybee. Repeal the 17th ! Shorter Abstract here: Ulysses at the Mast, one page Abstract
****For those of you that still have doubts about the Article V process, please review: Responses To Convention Of States Opposition My initial concerns were resolved after reading these articles. My attitude now is Go For It!
A Single-Subject Convention Addresses the runaway convention fear.
Update: Convention of States by the numbers The current State count
Article V Handbook - for State Legislators An important resource.
**** State Legislators Article V Caucus State Legislators, Join up at this site!
Most State Legislatures are in session now. Send this list of links to your State Representatives and Senators here: Contact your State Legislators.
Excellent Article V Letter to a State Assemblyman by Jacquerie
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke.
Lets all work together to get this going!
The 21st Amendment was proposed by Congress, and Congress decided to have the states ratify by state ratifying conventions, not the traditional method of state legislatures. This was because the bootlegging interests had their tentacles in every level of government and law enforcement, and there was fear that the seven year ratification window might expire without enough states ratifying should the legislatures be involved. Thus it was left up to the people.
So what’s your solution? Roll ove rand lte the leftists trample all over the Constitution? Or use the one power give to us to change things?
Nobody promised rainbows, including Levin. The fact is, anything that can pass 3/4 of the states should be in the constitution. It is called free government.
How about providing some excerpts from the groups you cite?
Not true. Out of several hundred votes cast by delegates to the state conventions, the constitution won by hardly a couple dozen votes.
<>During the writing of the Constitution, George Washington ordered that there be no communication with others outside the hall.<>
That was a parliamentary rule of the convention, agree to by the members. GW didn't impose it.
The Left owns or dominates every major institution, except the states, which opposed Obamacare and unlimited immigration in court, gave the GOP the House in 2010, and the Senate in 2014.
The fact is, any amendment agreed to by 3/4 of the states SHOULD be in the constitution. It is called free government.
Well, I would say that we need to begin enforcing what laws we have now. That would be a great first start. We have lots of laws on the books now, many of which directly apply to the power grab by FedGov, but we are ignoring them, and are more excited about passing more laws.
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