Posted on 01/05/2015 9:43:34 AM PST by Eurotwit
The story behind Hitler's plan of Germany getting the atomic bomb during WW2, and the heavy water sabotages in Rjukan, Norway, seen from four angles, the German side, the allied, the saboteurs and the company side.
btw. did you know that Niels Boehr was an elite athlete playing in the Danish top league in soccer.
Not all geniuses are nerds.
Though I prefer a genius as defensive midfielder :P
He said that the sets on Hogan's Heroes were spot on. Rest of the stuff? Not so much. But the buildings, camp layout, and so forth, were correct.
Someone consulted on that show, that knew what they were talking about. :-)
Bflr
I am not up with internet acronyms.
Bflr.
I did a student project named FRED.
Far side Relay to Earth Device.
Placing a satellite in stable orbit around on the the earth moon lagrange points, in order to provide stable communication to earth from the “dark side of the moon”
Yes, I am actually a rocket scientist :P Though my life took my in a different direction..
I wasn't suggesting that Heisenberg should be regarded as a Hero, more like that he doesn't appear to have been a committed Nazi. If I recall properly, after our team of scientists got a look at the German Atomic bomb project, they were flabbergasted at why it hadn't made more progress. They felt that Heisenberg was more than capable of working out the science that the Allies had, yet it appeared as though he didn't get very far.
To me as a scientist, Heisenberg is a hero for his work. Then the war. National loyalties. And in nazi germany get a headshot if you did not cooperate.
I find myself of a divided mind about this. If German Scientists slow walked some of their research because they opposed what the Nazis were doing with it, I think that is a good thing. On the other hand, when people such as Klaus Fuchs were feeding information to the Russians about our Atomic Research (as were others in the program) I thought they should have been shot.
I want national loyalty when they are ours, but not so much when they are theirs. I guess it's because I used to think we were the "good guys" and the good guys are always supposed to win.
Appreciate your response.
If Heisenberg as many belived warned the allies through Bohr.
And, then sabotaged Germany’s efforts.
He might be a hero as well in all terms. Humanitarian and scientific.
As you say, there is a lot of evidence that after the Bohr talk, which I think was his mentor, he started sandbagging. He did not want Hitler to have such a mighty weapon.
It would have ended the war in europe at least.
Nuke London, nuke Moscow.
What would America have done?
I think the nuclear bomb was such a game changer.
It questions eveyone’s loyaltees to the root.
It is as if the one ring of Sauron had been found.
What do we do?
Churchill wanted to nuke Moscow.
To end the Russian communist threat onnce and for all.
Thoughts?
To end the Russian communist threat onnce and for all.
Thoughts?
I am completely in the Curtis LeMay school of thought on this, which brings me to Richard Rhodes sequel to the "Making of the Atomic bomb" which was "Dark Sun, the Making of the Hydrogen bomb". In it he states that every day, Russian nuclear scientists would gaze over the hills expecting any minute to see American bombers coming to lay waste to them and their facility.
The Russians fully expected us to attack them, and Curtis LeMay was chomping at the bit in an effort to do exactly that. Curtis LeMay was no fool, he had ran the numbers and he knew what would happen if we didn't stop Soviet Atomic research.
I think it is insane that we didn't make this a line in the sand. It was at this point that we would decide that Atomic proliferation would never be stopped, and I think we will see millions (if not billions) of future dead as a consequence of this foolishness.
In Other words, Churchill was right, as he often was.
He told us that it was both technically flawed (the choice not to use graphite as a moderator because no one wanted to challenge a wrong result calculated by a famous German physicist on the nuclear cross section of graphite. Authority must be respected), the people involved didn't want to finish and be sent to some other crazy military assignment doing God knows what, most were not keen on Hitler winning the war, and a real shortage of resources because of allied bombing made progress difficult.
One of the most interesting stories he told was off a brash American officer who came into the lab after it had been captured by the allies. The office asked if there was anything of value in the facility. The scientist looked at each other and said yes the neutron sources and the plutonium. The officer asked them how valuable those things were. The scientists thought for a while and told him several millions of dollars. The officer had them all confiscated and put one in his pocket. The scientists told him they were deadly. He didn't believe them. They later learned he died of his stupidity.
That is pretty much the story I was told after a lecture by Karl Wirtz.
A local obscure movie channel showed “The Heroes of Telemark” last week. Managed to see some of it.
I don't have the book near to hand at the moment, but I recall that it was something like that which gummed up the program and prevented any real progress. Other scientists debated whether Heisenberg had made a mistake, or had done it deliberately.
One of the most interesting stories he told was off a brash American officer who came into the lab after it had been captured by the allies. The office asked if there was anything of value in the facility. The scientist looked at each other and said yes the neutron sources and the plutonium. The officer asked them how valuable those things were. The scientists thought for a while and told him several millions of dollars. The officer had them all confiscated and put one in his pocket. The scientists told him they were deadly. He didn't believe them. They later learned he died of his stupidity.
I guess he had never heard of Madam Curie.
As it should happen, I knew one of the men tasked with rounding up and Transporting German Atomic scientists at the end of the war. He told me how he had handcuffs and a 1911 and he made it clear to them that he would shoot them if he needed to. He said they never gave him any trouble.
He passed away a few years ago. He was a very interesting man. He also went through the Iranian revolution in 1979, and he absolutely hated Jimmy Carter as a result of his incompetence in handling the whole affair.
“Odd Johnson”
Loved him in Blazing Saddles.
You can stream it here:
http://tv.nrk.no/serie/kampen-om-tungtvannet/KMTE40003113/sesong-1/episode-1
Sadly, it’s only available in Norwegian, but at least the Germans speak in English (!?!)
bflr
bump for later reading
Participate. In that thread about America I posted when very drunk.
You laugh at Norway. You, as in the USA, are also a welfare state.
So you have been ever since Roosevelt.
And, you live in an economy that is not sustainable.
Entitlements and interest payments already take over 50 percent of US GDP, in 20 years it will be 90 percent.
If it wasn’t for the financial gymnastics America would already be bankrupt. So are many European Nations.
We are all printing money.
Perhaps the money men know more than us.
Because it seems to work.
Cheers,
Euro.
It must be awe inspiring to have such a close brush with an actual Historical figure.
So you have been ever since Roosevelt.
And, you live in an economy that is not sustainable.
Entitlements and interest payments already take over 50 percent of US GDP, in 20 years it will be 90 percent.
If it wasn’t for the financial gymnastics America would already be bankrupt. So are many European Nations.
We are all printing money.
I don't disagree with any of this. In fact, I regard this as the greatest problem currently facing this nation. The Democrats have been using welfare bribe money to remain in power. It's been good for them, but horrible for the nation, and the problem it constitutes is growing exponentially.
The numbers say we're going to crash at some point, and then I think it will get bloody.
BTW what country are you in/from?
I am Norwegian.
As a country up to the gills in money.
We own close to 2 percent of world stock markets.
Now we have started buying real estate. In NY, in Paris and in London.
Every Norwegian is a millionaire if you divide up this fund.
But, it it means to be used to future entitlements. Social Security.
Not a single oil kroner/dollar goes into this fund. Only the interest rent.
Payouts I mean.
I like your nick and your posts. Dioegenes rocked.
What is your bacckground, education?
Diogenese was indeed a very remarkable fellow, and I have to say I thoroughly resonate with his sense of humor and cynicism.
What is your background, education?
Grew up poor. Worked to get ahead. Went into electronics and have since been doing okay. Physics has always been an interest of mine, but I never went beyond immediate applications of Electronics.
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