Posted on 12/05/2014 5:33:01 AM PST by SJackson
I can find no source that says Garner actually had loose cigarettes on him on that day.
From what I could find, Garner had sold loose cigarettes in the past. And he had just broken up a fight before the plainclothes police arrived.
So here's a very reasonable scenario: Garner had just broken up a fight. He did a good thing. And then the cops show up and far from congratulating him, start hassling him for something he wasn't (currently) doing.
Of course, the scenario collapses if Garner actually was selling loose cigarettes on the day. does anybody here know for sure?
Right you are. I had a fireman apply it to me during a demonstration of how firemen remove uncooperative people from burning buildings. I instantly collapsed, like a sack of potatoes.
The question here is to whether or not the cop over-applied the maneuver. IMHO that's a question to be decided by a petit jury in an open court.
“I can find no source that says Garner actually had loose cigarettes on him on that day.”
I don’t remember the source, but I did read one news story (official outlet) that said the police had been called by the store owner twice that day before responding because of Garner selling cigarettes outside the store.
Ref the use of the “choke hold:” Unlike Michael Brown, this is case where a big guy was resisting, but subdued by more than one police officer. As an old Judo player, I can definitely say the move used to take the man down was not a true choke hold and definitely did not kill the man. It was some other issue. The “choke hold” did not last anywhere near long enough to make him pass out, much less die, and it did not crush his trachea (the man could talk). For those of you unfamiliar with sport Judo, we use a lot of choke holds and it is one of the four ways of winning a match. —It is how I won most of the matches I managed to win.-—Judo uses three major forms of choke holds; blood chokes (which can cause you to pass out in 2-3 seconds) and air chokes (which can cause you to pass out in 30 - 40 seconds) and combination blood and air chokes. When any of these chokes is properly applied, it is impossible to speak and the only method of signalling the referee or opponent that the hold has been sunk is to either tap-out or pass out. Choke holds which place pressure directly on the trachea are illegal. It takes approximately 4 minutes of the brain being deprived of oxygen before brain damage which can lead to death occurs. Most police departments do not allow true “choke holds” which can cause a person to pass out. The hold used by the police officer, was more of wrestling/control of the opponent move.
My understanding is the coroner’s report was clear that it was not the choke hold but a combination of pressure on the chest, asphyxiation, heart disease, and asthma which led to cardiac arrest.
I believe we can all recognize that while the officers have to act to make a necessary arrest and protect themselves in the process, at some point the officers should have determined they had a medical emergency on their hands and un-cuffed the victim to get him into a position where his airway and lungs could have been effectively cleared.
On the political side: Unfortunately, the waters have been muddied by so many lies and agendas, that a truly tragic accidental death like this one (which does have plenty of room for negligence charges), gets confused with a clearly justifiable self defense shooting by a Police Officer (Michael Brown), and a truly justifiable prosecution of the NYPD toilet plunger sodomy case for which a now former cop is doing hard time.
“I don’t get why it’s illegal.”
Without the package, it’s impossible to tell if the tax has ever been paid.
did he not pay the tax on the cigs. when he bought them?
I would imagine they were purchased in another state with a lower tax.
You can’t make individual sales legally because of the taxes involved. A pack of cigarettes has a state (and in NYC, perhaps a city) tax stamp on it. A pack purchased in Virginia can’t legally be sold in NY (or most anywhere else) because the local taxes haven’t been paid on it. Big money can be made by smuggling out-of-state cigarettes from low-tax states to high-tax states to evade the taxes and pocket the difference.
Funny thing is that smuggling was going on in the 1960s (from Kentucky to Ohio) when the difference was pennies per pack.
I worked in a auto plant and there were always guys selling low tax Ky cigs out of their car trunk.
The same was happening with Virginia cigarettes in New Jersey in the same timeframe. It’s probably continuing to this day. You can make quite a bit of money for even a few cents of tax difference per pack.
He could be very dangerous driving a car stoned on Mary Jane and slamming into an innocent family, I’ll say mine or your’s God forbid.
I also understand that shop keeper’s had complained to the Mayor’s office. He in turn directed the precinct Captain to send plainclothes officers to bust seller’s of loose cigs.
Not everyone who has possessed marijuana is stoned even part of the time. Marijuana has a 30 day presence in urine drug screens.
You’re right. A career criminal with 30 arrests out on bail for the crime he was being taken down for is most likely straight as an arrow. What could I have been thinking.
Was toxicology performed at autopsy?
If he wasn’t stoned he sure as hell was stupid. I hope he has peace with God now because things weren’t working so well for him on this mortal coil.
My older sister was sneaky as heck. She would pull my hair and when I beat the you know what out of her, and mom heard the fight my sister would deny starting it and I would get in trouble.
Cops have the power to bully a citizen and then kill them when they get mad about it. Not all cops are this unethical, but some are and they are getting away with it.
It is not race based, though. The unethical cop(s) bullies everyone. The ethical cop does not.
Naw, its illegal in NY(black market cigs to avoid tax). Add stupid law to the list.
Done properly, there is less danger of injury and less pain than a taser.
NY city has one of the highest taxes on cigarettes in the nation. This led to gangs getting cigarettes that hadn’t been taxed and selling them on the black market to avoid the tax.
The tax was meant to reduce smoking, but instead it led to a black market. Unintended consequences and one more stupid law for cops to have to enforce.
You have to ask? Kids can’t even sell lemonade in their own yard unless they have a license, in these liberal places such as NY City.
Heard a report he bought them on Indian reservation. Think it was Fox but only heard it once. That would make his illegal profit margin soar. Cigs are $15.00 for 20 Pack in NYC
then get the law changed, in the meantime it’s illegal and its the cops job to enforce the law.
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