Posted on 11/11/2014 10:57:30 AM PST by westcoastwillieg
IRS will do absolutely nothing to enforce laws until Obummer is in office with his cronies running all agencies. IRS is currently full of Lois Lerner types. Along with Dept of Justice, ICE, Commerce, Education, Energy....
Let us hope next president will be a repub with backbone. But I won’t hold my breath either.
As for the H1B visa issue, most Indians on H1B visa are computer programmers. There are millions of computer programmers floating around in India, China, former Soviet satellites, etc. So American companies have 2 choices, out source programming or import workers on H1B visa’s. Indians have an advantage over others because they understand English. I remember interviewing highly educated Russians with PhD’s applying for engineering job in our outfit. Except they could’nt speak English. So we could’nt hire them.
Since I believe in free market capitalism, I do not want to see artificial constraints on any outfit.
Ah, the centuries-old globalist new world order “free trade” scam.
No “artificial constraints”, as in they want free rein to do as they please with national laws constructed for their purposes, even as it erodes national sovereignty and the labor market for American citizens.
Oh, by the way, I’ve been a programmer for over two decades, and we don’t at all need cheap labor - American companies most certainly are NOT limited to 2 choices, either outsource programming or import programming serfs.
They most certainly can afford to pay American programmers, they just want to cut those “high” wages. It drives them nuts that they have to pay six-figure salaries to some programmers.
So they import people from India, and about 99% of them can’t program their way out of a wet paper bag, but they they will work for half price or less in America. I’ve come across a very, very few of them that actually are very capable in my career, and those were very good.
They’re generally nice people, but, like most foreigners, most of them don’t “get it” when it comes to not questioning anything. Americans will generally question or complain if a work process appears to be going into the crapper. Most foreigners will simply dutifully do what they are told.
Also, most American programmers are not great innovators; they’re not what I would call a “good programmer”. However, the percentage of American programmers who ARE great programmers... is MUCH, MUCH higher than in most foreign countries. Of course, the other “five eyes” countries are pretty good in that statistic, as are Germans and some other Europeans. A surprising percentage of Indian programmers frequently struggle with their own code, which in the old days probably meant you’d get canned or have to work for the government or some large organization that could carry deadwood programmers.
Interestingly, I believe you’re Filipino ? I’ve worked with several, and they were mostly sharp programmers. A good work ethic was very common among the ones I’ve known.
That all being said...
Importing of cheap programmers serves the purpose of FLOODING THE MARKET with cheap labor, so American programmer wages are BACK AT 1995 LEVELS IN GENERAL, and that’s with a large number of American programmers having exited the field.
Do you realize you’re promoting the agendas of globalist elites or are you unaware ?
I hope they’re paying you well, cuz they certainly have the money to pay you well and it would be a shame for you to miss out on that opportunity.
Also, bear in mind that just because you help new world order globalists, it will do nothing to keep them from eventually destroying you and your favorite country, your family, your friends.
Everyone is just a sheeple to the elites, and they want to cull about 2/3 of the world’s population. They love and create wars, famine, crises, disease, etc.
The next President, like all of them, will effectively report to new world order elites and do as they say, whether they play the role of Dem or Pubbie.
You can’t be serious and be against free market capitalism!
Every corporation should have 2 objectives.
1. Serve the customer with the best product/service possible.
2. Seve the stock holders with the best return on their risking capital to own a share of the outfit.
Your statement “They most certainly can afford to pay American programmers, they just want to cut those “high” wages.” flunks above item #2. A company is not in business to be “fair”. Most businesses are cut throat competition. Who are you or the government to tell the business what they should pay to whom?
As for quality of the Indian or any other programmers, it is up to the business to decide what is good for them, not you or the government. If a business is stupid enough to hire programmers who can’t program their way out of a paper bag, the business will fail on it’s own stupidity.
If you know much better programmers than they are hiring on H1B visa’s, you have the freedom to start your own outfit and run the stupid businesses hiring stupid programmers out of business.
I learned computer programming in 1961 as a course during my work towards a master’s degree in Engineering at University of Iowa. In my job as mechanical engineer where we designed and manufactured machines which take the most brutal loads of any machines on earth, it took me 20 years to become a really good engineer. It took me all of 20 days to become a good programmer. I developed expert programs with half a million lines of code with very mind boggling complex complicated flow diagrams.
American programmers can not demand high wages for a skill that is available cheaply in abundance all over the world. Learn something really difficult such as engineering because there are thousands of jobs available which can not be filled. Right here in my backyard in Seattle, Boeing can’t find enough manufacturing engineers.
Lastly the worst thing any country could do is protectionism. That is what unions want. High wages for easily learned jobs. Americans can compete with any country. We have cheap energy, abundant natural resources and innovative & hard working work force. All protectionism will do is raise prices for consumers and lower our standard of living.
Duh, the costs of living between the US and third world are drastically different.
You can’t compete against a person working in your country if they are content to make half a living wage, and the labor market is so overflowed with candidates that clients pursue quantity over quality.
Legitimate free markets are where monopolists don’t have effective control of government.
When big business can order up any law they want, even where the law hurts the American economy and hurts citizens in the pocketbook - that’s not a free market. That’s corruption having taken over.
Legitimate markets are those where NATIONAL interests are considered.
“protectionism” is where international trade is propping up corruption and inefficiency. The American worker is not being propped up. The American programmer is not unionized, nor has any interest in being unionized that I’ve ever met.
You are expressing an anti-national sovereignty stand.
A lot of folks here on FR and around the country have caught on to the scam of “free trade”.
No sale with me and many others.
Why don’t I compete against cheap H1B body shops ? You’re welcome to. See how much profit you make. Maybe you can out-Walmart Walmart. Perhaps you need some connections in India ? Duh.
Big companies waste money in a big way and they mostly don’t “fail” when they do so, since they have to a large extent pushed out any real competition through illegitimate means.
You became a good programmer in 20 days. That’s almost funny. Once I heard a 7-year old say “we did computers last week”.
When one develops an “expert” computer program, 95% of effort is in learning to be an expert. How to machine different configuration parts, which tools will work best for which part configurations, what speeds and feeds of the cutting tool to program for the computer controlled turning machines, how will the part rigidity affect the machining process, how to nest parts to be burned out of steel plates up to 12 inch thick so that there will be minimum waste, how to enter the flame into the part without damaging it, how to group parts for shop processing based on delivery schedules of each machine, etc. are just a few parameters I had to define on paper, and draw elaborate flow diagrams for programming. After that is completed, converting into computer code is the easy part.
The main problem facing me was no one sits down and gives you all the information. I had to read whole bunch of manuals, interview all the experienced machinists in the outfit, interview all those working in the flame cutting department, write down every detail and become an absolute expert in manufacturing processes. Only then I can teach the brainless computer via 500,000 lines of code written in a high level programming language. Every tool motion and flame paths had to be plotted by the computer for visual checks. Every part number had to be written by the computer on plots of every part, so that the shop can properly route the flame cut parts for further processing. In our business some parts weighed as much as 3000 lbs, so the entire process had to be 100% error proof. We could not afford to scrap parts costing thousands of dollars.
Like I said, Learning Fortran, dBase and COBOL was the easy part.
When we did the advertising for UCC -- which was at the time heavily involved in CAD/CAM services (then on Sperry mainframes) -- that was the insight that occurred to me.
Whoever was writing the code not only had to be proficient in FORTRAN but had to have the knowledge of an expert machinist.
I shut down a 57 yer old business because I couldn't get work running the business honestly.
23 tax paying employees making over $25/hr plus health ins and pension lost their jobs that were taken by illegal aliens that were making $12/hr maximum and not paying taxes.
Crucify the illegal employers, including homeowners hiring the criminals and the illegals will self deport within 6 months.
Enforcement worked under Eisenhower and it will work again!!!!!
Your instinct was correct. The reason so many programs are full of flaws is because the programmers are not even close to being “experts” in what they are programming.
Only a proficient medical doctor can develop a useful package of medical software. Ditto with any other field.
Programming is lot more than manipulating images on the screen.
And that is a serious problem in the real world. People who are experts in their fields seldom bother to learn computer programming. Writing a great program is same as playing chess. The basic moves are simple to learn. Any one can learn to play chess. But to play chess at Boris Spasky or Bobby Fischer is something altogether different.
The languages used to program machine tools are very simple languages.
My father was a tool & die maker, I grew up in his shop, was running simple machines by about 5 or 6 years old. I know all about scrap parts, being precise, etc.
I also spent a few months working in a shop that made handrails and another shop that mostly ran CNC milling machines.
While I was in high school he got his first CNCs, in the ‘80s. The CNC programming languages provide the CNC programmer with actually quite simple high-level commands, i.e., move to a certain location at a certain speed, etc.
The CNC HIDES the complexity of how that is made to happen from the CNC programmer; all that logic is implemented in ROM inside the box.
If you told me you wrote your own CNC controller from scratch, starting with nothing but a motherboard, processor, memory, and some devices and device controllers, then I’d say you were “programming”.
On my PC back in the 80s I wrote a program to generate code for my fathers CNC milling machine to enable him to simply type text as input to the program, and the it would then generate a CNC program to mill the letters in a 2-D surface by calling a macro for each letter. It was a simple little exercise.
My father was a great tool and die maker during his career, he designed and built a custom laminating machine, designed and built “progressive” and other difficult-to-design metal stamping dies, he had previously worked as a plastic mold designer and builder. He owned his own metal stamping business. He did all sorts of custom and difficult work; one fellow obtained 18 patents as a result of grant work related to heat exchange, for which he hired my father as a consultant to him. He also worked in other careers before that, he designed and built his own home, he had a private pilot’s license and also is a quite amateurish musician. I’m probably forgetting a few things.
Yet, that simple goto/gosub type programming, with it’s G codes, M codes, etc., was all he could master in terms of programming. What I do was always entirely beyond him. Completely.
While the part you were making may have been complicated and thus required tons of tedious simplistic logic, the proramming constructs were very simple.
This simplicity is why for many years there has been the CAD/CAM combination, where drawing files are read as input into a program that generates CNC code to produce the part in the drawing. This generation of CNC code is relatively straightforward.
Here’s an exercise for you for programming. Write a bootloader in assembly language, and install it to run on your pc, using only that pc. That’s just the first step in writing an operating system from scratch. You will have no operating system to call, hence no debugging tool other than attemting to print things to the screen. You will only be able to call BIOS routines.
Your executable is limited an initial load of 512 bytes which you must write to sector 0 of your hard drive. If you make a mistake, the drive will no longer be bootable. Within those 512 bytes you can load other sectors if you want to.
You’ll have one month, part time.
Then we can move on to writing a multitasking operating system from scratch, in assembler.
And let’s add the requirement that it has to be significantly different from any commonly known operating system.
Does that sound pathetically easy, like you could “learn it in 20 days” ?
Try just writing a simple multi-threaded server that can handle 200 concurrent client connections, say in less than 10,000 lines, C or C++, running in Windows or Linux, your choice. Then write a simple client program that can talk to the server. You can have the server do whatever you want in talking to those connections, and invent your own communications protocol.
As far as top programmers go, these types of tasks would be simple exercises; even if they were unfamiliar with those specific platforms, hardware or languages.
But a person who is expert in a different field, unless they really are a “jack of all trades” type that is very capable at learning how to think like a programmer, would start having a lot of difficulty when their bootloader was loaded into memory off the disk, and the screen goes blank and the PC just sits there looking like an expensive paperweight. The only thing that probably works at that point is the off button.
Very often people that are very smart and experts in one field, when they work on a project dealing with another field, can learn a lot about the other field surprisingly fast. However, IMHO, it’s unwise to “dismiss” any trade or profession. Usually doing so is actually oversimplifying much of the field.
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