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BATTLE RAGES TO FREE ENCIRCLED AIR ARMY; CARRIER PLANES CONTINUE ATTACKS AT MANILA (9/23/44)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 9/23/44 | E.C. Daniel, Alan Wood, James MacDonald, Wes Gallagher, Don Whitehead, John H. Crider, more

Posted on 09/23/2014 4:22:53 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: history; milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-27 next last
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles and the occasional radio broadcast delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread.
1 posted on 09/23/2014 4:22:53 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
MARKET-GARDEN Operations, September 1944
American Capture of Peleliu, September 15-26, 1944
Northwestern Europe, 1944: 6th and 12th Army Group Operations, 15 September-7 November 1944
Northwestern Europe, 1944: 21st Army Group Operations, 15 September-15 December 1944
Eastern Europe, 1941: Russian Balkan and Baltic Campaigns – Operations, 19 August-31 December 1944
Northern Italy 1944: Allied Advance to Gothic Line, 5 June-25 August and Gains 29 August-31 December
China, 1941: Operation Ichigo, April-December 1944 and Situation 31 December
China-Burma, 1941: Third Burma Campaign – Slim’s Offensive, June 1944-March 1945
2 posted on 09/23/2014 4:23:40 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
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The Nimitz Graybook

3 posted on 09/23/2014 4:26:36 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The following audio link is 35 seconds of a report on the situation at Arnhem. Robert Robbertson, BBC
4 posted on 09/23/2014 4:27:08 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Billboard Top Ten for the Week of September 23, 1944

#1 - “Swinging on a Star” – Bing Crosby
#2 - “You Always Hurt the One You Love” – Mills Brothers
#3 - “I’ll Walk Alone” – Dinah Shore
#4 – “Is You Is or Is You Ain’t (Ma’ Baby)” – Bing Crosby, with the Andrews Sisters
#5 - “Time Waits for No One” – Helen Forrest
#6– “I’ll Walk Alone” – Martha Tilton
#7 - “I’ll Be Seeing You” – Bing Crosby
#8 – “His Rocking Horse Ran Away” – Betty Hutton
#9 – “It Had to Be You” - Dick Haymes/Helen Forrest
#10 - “It Had to Be You” – Betty Hutton

5 posted on 09/23/2014 4:27:41 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; 2banana; henkster; meandog; ...
Rescuers Slowed (Daniel) – 2-3
Sky Troops Refuse to Yield in Battle in Arnhem Ruins (Wood) – 4
Pick of German Troops Beaten in Battle for Bridge over Rhine (MacDonald) – 5
Third Army Repels New Tank Assault (Gallagher) – 5
Germans Hang On to Siegfried Line (Whitehead) – 5-6
‘General’ Defies Nazi Fight Order – 6
War News Summarized – 6
Welcome for Americans in Holland, Nazi Prisoners and ‘Softening Up’ Boulogne (photos) – 7-9
U.S. to be ‘Hard’ with Germans; Eisenhower Orders Strict Rule (Crider and Raymond Daniell) – 10
Text of Eisenhower Statement on Reich – 11
Baltic Base Seized – 12-13
Soviet Truce Body Reaches Helsinki – 13
Russia Restoring Dnieper Dam; German Plan to Blow It Up Foiled (by W.H. Lawrence) – 13
Big Area in Greece Freed of Germans (by C.L. Sulzberger) – 14
Rimini Captured, Po Battle Begins (by Milton Bracker) – 14-15
1,200 U.S. Bombers Batter Germany – 15
Japan is Alarmed – 15-16
Allied Fliers Hit 14 Japanese Ships (by Lindsay Parrott and Robert Trumbull) – 16
Bitter Fight Seen to Beat Japanese – 16-17
A Meeting in Bombay (photo) – 17
The Texts of the Day’s Communiques on the Fighting in Various War Zones – 18-20
Fighting the Germans inside Their Fatherland (page 1 photo) – 20
6 posted on 09/23/2014 4:29:19 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1944/sep44/23sep44.htm#

Red Army reaches the Baltic
Saturday, September 23, 1944 www.onwar.com

On the Eastern Front... Soviet forces in Estonia reach the Baltic Sea at Parnu. In Romania, Soviet forces advance from Arad to the Hungarian frontier.

Over Germany... There are RAF nighttime raids on Munster and Neuss (east of Aachen). Other bombers breach the Dortmund-Ems Canal.

On the Western Front... Operation Market Garden continues. British 30th Corps fails to make further progress. There is a successful German counterattack north of Eindhoven. To the west, Canadian forces cross the Escaut canal in attacks aimed at clear German forces from the north bank of the Scheldt.

In Italy... US 5th Army attacks clear the Futa Pass through the Appenine Mountains, to the north of Florence.

In San Marino... The republic of San Marino declares war on Germany after a German platoon takes its 300-man army prisoner.

In the Yap Islands... To the north of Palau Islands, part of the US 81st Division occupies Ulithi Atoll after naval reconnaissance suggests it is not in use by the Japanese. Work begins on converting the atoll into a major American naval base.


7 posted on 09/23/2014 4:30:36 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.etherit.co.uk/month/8/23.htm

September 23rd, 1944 (SATURDAY)

BELGIUM: Canadian units cross the Escaut canal during their advance to clear the north bank of the Scheldt.

NETHERLANDS: The fighting in Arnhem continues between the Allied paratroops and the Germans. The British XXX Corps continues attacks in its attempts to advance.

559 US Eighth Air Force P-38 Lightnings, P-47s and P-51s bomb and strafe flak positions and other ground targets in 2 landing zones in the Nijmegen, the Netherlands area, immediately preceding the arrival of the remainder of the US 82d and 101st Airborne Divisions and the Polish 1st Brigade; the P-38s are flown by Eighth and Ninth Air Force units; they engage 150+ Luftwaffe fighters; USAAF claims 27-2-6 aircraft in the air; 4 P-47s and 10 P-51s are lost.

During the day, RAF Bomber Command sent 50 aircraft, 34 Halifaxes, ten Mosquitos and six Lancasters, to bomb coastal batteries at Domburg; 49 bombed the target without loss. One particularly large explosion is seen.

FRANCE: Versailles: with two million men now under his command, Eisenhower is moving his HQ forward to Versailles. The US Seventh Army which landed on the Riviera last month, has linked up with Patton’s Third Army; the Allied front now runs in an unbroken line from the Swiss frontier to the Channel. Since D-Day, the Germans in the west have lost upwards of a million men, half of them prisoners.

Under pressure from Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsey, the naval C-in-C, Eisenhower is giving top priority to clearing the Scheldt estuary of enemy forces and bringing Antwerp’s port into use. The task will be assigned to the Canadians.

As Allied forces begin pushing into Germany itself, resistance is stiffening, though there are signs of divisions between regular German forces and fanatical SS units. When US troops yesterday entered Stolberg, a small town about 40 miles west of Cologne, the mayor offered to help the Americans in locating pockets of resistance. Two German officers appeared with a white flag and said they wished to surrender their platoon. SS units came up and put a stop to that. Deserters are a growing problem. The CO of the German 18th Panzergrenadier Division has issued an order which says that the families of “these bastards who have given away important military secrets” will have to atone for their treason.

In the U.S. Third Army’s XX Corps area, 7th Armored Division drops plans for crossing the Seille River upon receiving orders to join XIX Corps of the First Army. 1st Battalion of the 10th Infantry, 5th Infantry Division, relieves the weakened 2d Battalion at Pournoy-la-Chetive, during the night of 23/24 September. Combat Command R, 6th Armored Division, is attached to corps as mobile reserve and moves to the Jarny area on 24th.

In the U.S. Third Army’s XII Corps area, the 80th Infantry Division extends eastward in the center and on the right as the Germans withdraw, but the enemy retains the hill mass east of Serrieres. The 35th Infantry Division clears Bois de Faulx of enemy rear guards, capturing many. The 4th Armored Division rests after its lively tank battles. In the XV Corps area, the 79th Infantry Division clears Foret de Mondon, the 3d Battalion of the 314th Infantry suffering heavy casualties during frontal assaults. A French patrol crosses the La Vezouse River and takes Domjevin but the Germans restore positions along the river. After nightfall, the final enemy remnants fall back across the river to organize a new defence line.

In the U.S. Seventh Army’s VI Corps area, the 157th Infantry, 45th Infantry Division, is unable to expand its bridgehead toward Girmont; the 179th Infantry takes Mossoux and cuts the road leading northwest from there; the 180th Infantry clears that part of Epinal west of the Moselle River and crosses at 3 points near there. The 36th Infantry Division’s 42d Infantry finishes clearing Remiremont and begins crossing the Moselle; other elements of the division are pushing northward. The 7th Infantry, 3d Infantry Division, reaches the Moselle across from Rupt and about midnight begins crossing over a bridge, which is found to be intact.

In the French 1st Army area, General Jean de Lattre de Tassigny revises his plan of attack as a result of Lieutenant General Lucian K Truscott’s decision to make the main effort with the U.S. Seventh Army while French forces provide flank protection. He calls for an offensive limited in strength to one combat command of the French 1st Armored Division and one regimental combat team of the French 1st Infantry Division. The armor is to attack on an axis Melisey-Le Thillot; the infantry is to conduct diversionary attacks.
In the air, 162 USAAF Eighth Air Force B-24s fly a TRUCKIN’ mission to France delivering fuel.
USAAF Ninth Air Force fighters support the US Third Army in the Chateau-Salins area.

U-267 was the last one to leave the U-boat base at St. Nazaire, France (U-255 remained and eventually surrendered there in May, 1945). She arrived on 29 Oct at Stavanger, Norway.

GERMANY: USAAF Ninth Air Force B-26s and A-20s sent against targets in are recalled due to weather; fighters support the US First Army in western Germany, escort bombers (recalled), and fly armed reconnaissance over wide areas.

The 78th Fighter Group using P-47Ds will receive a Distinguished Unit Citation for its actions over the last six days, covered troop carrier and bombardment operations and carried out strafing and dive-bombing missions during Operation Market-Garden.

During the night of 23/24 September, RAF Bomber Command sent 549 aircraft, 378 Lancasters, 154 Halifaxes and 17 Mosquitos, to bomb Neuss; 492 aircraft bombed the target with the loss of five Lancasters and two Halifaxes. Bomber Command’s report states that most of the bombing fell in the dock and factory areas. In a second raid, 136 Lancasters and five Mosquitos are sent to bomb the banks of the two parallel branches of the Dortmund-Ems canal at a point near Ladbergen, north of Münster, where the level of the canal water is well above the level of the surrounding land. Ninety nine aircraft bombed the Munster Aqueducts with the loss of 14 Lancasters, more than 10 per cent of the Lancaster force. Despite the presence of 7/10ths cloud in the target area, breaches are made in the banks of both branches of the canal and a 6-mile (9,7 kilometer) stretch of it is drained. Most of this damage is caused by two direct hits by 12,000 pound (5 543 kilogram) Tallboy bombs dropped by aircraft of No 617 Squadron at the opening of the raid. In a third raid, 113 aircraft, 107 Lancasters, five Mosquitos and a Lightning, carried out a supporting raid on Handorf Airfield the local German night-fighter airfield just outside Münster; one Lancaster is lost. No photographic reconnaissance flight is carried out after this raid. Sixty five aircraft also bombed Münster itself; the town records 100 high-explosive bombs but no fatal casualties. Two other raids are flown by Mosquitos, 42 bombing Bochum and six bombing the Rheine marshalling yard.

In the Baltic Sea a man was washed overboard from U-370. [Matrosengefreiter Erwin Stiegeler].

U-979 was rammed slightly by a convoy escort in naval grid AE 57, suffering damage to her periscope.

U-1065, U-3504 commissioned.

U-957 sank Brilliant 29 in Convoy VD-1.

AUSTRIA: Ten USAAF Fifteenth Air Force B-17s, escorted by P-38s and P-51s bomb the marshalling yard at Wels.

CZECHOSLOVAKIA: 130 USAAF Fifteenth Air Force B-17s, escorted by P-38s and P-51s bomb the synthetic oil refinery at Brux. Four bombed visually and 126 used h2X radar.

229 B-24s attack communications targets in Italy, including a viaduct at Venzone and road and railroad bridges at Casarsa della Delizia, Pinzano al Tagliamento, Ponte di Piave, Latisana, San Dona di Piave, and Susegana.

TACTICAL OPERATIONS: Although several missions are aborted because of bad weather in Italy, US Twelfth Air Force medium bombers attack several railroad bridges in the Po River Valley; fighter-bombers hit guns and rail and road targets in the battle area as the US Fifth Army pushes on through the Gothic Line defenses.

ROMANIA: Soviet troops reach the Hungarian border after capturing Arad. (John Nicholas)

ESTONIA: Soviet Army troops reach the Gulf of Riga at Paernu.

GREECE: The British Special Boat Squadron, Mediterranean, is dropped on Araxos, on the northwest coast of the Peloponnesus Peninsula, to seize an airfield, from which retreating enemy can be harassed, and to occupy Patras.

ITALY: The US 5th Army north of Florence attacks the Futa Pass through the Appennines Mountains.
In the U.S. Fifth Army’s II Corps area, the 34th Infantry Division, with the capture of Montepiano by the 133d infantry, is through the Gothic Line. The 91st Infantry Division rests in preparation for its next task—clearing Mt. Oggiolo, west of the Radicosa Pass. The 338th Infantry, 85th Infantry Division, pushes slowly northward from Mt Coloreta; The 337th Infantry, replacing the 338th in the line, takes the western part of Mt la Fine. The 88th Infantry Division, committing the 351st Infantry between the 349th and 350th, reaches a line Mt la Fine-Mt della Croce. In the British 13 Corps area, the 1st Division occupies Poggio Cavalmagra and pushes on toward Palazzuolo on the left and Marradi on the river. The Indian 8th Division occupies Mt Villanova.
In the British Eighth Army area, 5 Corps is vigorously engaged with the enemy north of the Marecchia River on a delaying line San Arcangelo-Poggio Berni-Montebello. The Canadian I Corps continues to pursue the enemy toward the Uso River. The 5th Armored Division takes responsibility for the left flank of the corps, releasing the British 4th Division for reserve.
In the air, several missions are aborted by bad weather but USAAF Twelfth Air Force medium bombers attack several railroad bridges in the Po River Valley; fighter-bombers hit guns and rail
and road targets in the battle area.
In the air, 229 USAAF Fifteenth Air Force B-24s attack communications targets including a viaduct at Venzone and road and railroad bridges at Casarsa della Delizia, Pinzano al Tagliamento, Ponte di Piave, Latisana, San Dona di Piave, and Susegana.

INDIAN OCEAN: U-859 (German) unknown depth Torpedoed on surface; 20 survivors, unknown number self escape with Drager gear, PoWs. (Mark Horan)

CHINA: Major General Patrick J Hurley sends a report to President Franklin D Roosevelt on telling him of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek’s reaction to his (Roosevelt’s) message of 19 September.
On the Salween front, the Japanese send a rescue column to extricate the garrison at Pingka.
In the air, 19 USAAF Tenth Air Force B-24s fly fuel to Liuchow while two others deliver fuel to Kunming.
Fifteen USAAF Fourteenth Air Force B-24s bomb the Burma Road in the Chefang area; 36 B-25s hit Chuanhsien and targets of opportunity in surrounding areas; 6 B-25s bomb Kuanyang, 5 hit Yungming, 12 bomb Lungling, and 2 knock out a bridge near Jinyang; 2 B-24s bomb docks at Amoy; 90+ P-40s and P-51s hit numerous targets of opportunity throughout southeastern China concentrating on Japanese troops in the Chuanhsien area and various targets around Jungyun, Yuankiang, Yungming, Lingling, and Hsuchang.

THAILAND: Six USAAF Fourteenth Air Force B-25s damage Dara bridge.

BURMA: 19 US Tenth Air Force P-47 Thunderbolts attack bridges along a line Wanling-Bhamo-Myitkyina destroying 1 bridge; 6 B-25s hit bridges south of Meza, destroying 1 and extensively damaging several others.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC: The German submarine U-859 is sunk near Penang in the Straits of Malacca, in position 05.46N, 100.04E, by torpedoes from the RN submarine HMS Trenchant (P 331); 20 of the 67 crewmen survive. Escaping at an unknown depth an unknown number self escape with Drager gear, the 20 survivors become PoWs. (Jack McKillop and Mark Horan)

NETHERLANDS EAST INDIES: On Morotai, work is begun on another airfield, named Pitoe Drome, about 1,200 yards (1097 meters) north of Wama Drome.
In the air, during night and day raids USAAF Far East Air Forces B-24s and B-25s concentrate on Sidate and Mapanget Airfields on Celebes Island while P-47s pound Kaoe Airfield on Halmahera Island.

NEW GUINEA: At Allied headquarters in Hollandia, Dutch New Guinea, U.S. Lieutenant General Stephen J. Chamberlin, Deputy Chief of Staff South West Pacific Area, tells Australian Lieutenant General Sir Frank Horton Berryman, General Officer Commanding I Australian Corps, that for planning purposes, the roles of I Australian Corps are (1) Aparri, Philippine Islands, with an earliest date of 20-30 December 1944; (2) Sarangani, Philippine Islands after Lingayen Gulf; and (3) after Sarangani an advance down the west coast of Borneo with Java as an ultimate objective.

In the air, USAAF Far East Air Forces P-47s and P-40s bomb AA guns at Manokwari, Moemi, and Ransiki Airfields.

CAROLINE ISLANDS: PALAU ISLANDS: On Peleliu, Regimental Combat Team 321 of the 81st Infantry Division arrives from Angaur and is attached to the 1st Marine Division. After relieving the 1st Marines on the left flank just north of the third phase line, north of the village of Ngarekeukl, RCT 321 reconnoiters along the coast to Garekoru, near the fourth phase line, without difficulty. Efforts to make a general advance northward, however, fail because of intense fire from the center ridges. The 7th Marines has the task of supporting the drive of the infantry.
On Angaur, the 322d Infantry again drives into the Lake Salome bowl from south but pulls back again when forward positions become untenable.

BONIN ISLANDS: Fifteen USAAF Seventh Air Force B-24s from Saipan bomb Chichi Jima, Haha Jima, and Ani Jima.

MARCUS ISLAND: Two USAAF B-24s on armed reconnaissance bomb the island.

WAKE ISLAND: During the night of 23/24 September, a USAAF Seventh Air Force B-24s from Kwajalein Atoll, Marshall Islands, bombs the island.

MARIANA ISLANDS: A USAAF Seventh Air Force on a training mission bombs Pagan Island.

TERRITORY OF HAWAII: The battleship USS West Virginia (BB-48) reaches Pearl Harbor and rejoins the Pacific Fleet, marking the end of the salvage and reconstruction of 18 ships damaged at Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941.

CANADA: Tug HMCS Glenbrook launched Owen Sound, Ontario.
Tug HMCS Glenbrook launched Owen Sound, Ontario.
Frigate HMCS Glace Bay arrived Halifax from builder Quebec City, Province of Quebec.
Corvette HMCS Lunenburg departed Londonderry for refit Saint John, New Brunswick.
Frigate HMCS Wetaskiwin departed Londonderry to join Convoy EG W-7.

U.S.A.: The motion picture “Arsenic and Old Lace” is released today. This comedy, based on the play by Frank Kesselring, is directed by Frank Capra and stars Cary Grant, Priscilla Lane, Raymond Massey, Jack Carson, Edward Everett Horton, Peter Lorre, James Gleason, Josephine Hull and Jean Adair. The plot has Grant discovering that his kindly old aunts (Hull and Adair) and his sinister brother (Massey) are all serial killers, and tries to sort it out fast so he can go on his honeymoon with Lane.

Destroyer USS Furse laid down.
Submarines USS Boarfish and Charr commissioned.


8 posted on 09/23/2014 4:32:41 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arnhem#Day_7.C2.A0.E2.80.93_Saturday_23_September

Day 7 – Saturday 23 September

Spindler was ordered to switch his attacks further south to try to force the British away from the river, isolating the British from any hope of reinforcement and allowing them to be destroyed.[132] Despite their best efforts, however, they were unsuccessful, although the constant artillery and assaults continued to wear the British defences down further.[139]

A break in the weather allowed the RAF to finally fly combat missions against the German forces surrounding Urquharts men.[140] Hawker Typhoons and Republic P-47 Thunderbolts strafed German positions throughout the day and occasionally dueled with the Luftwaffe over the battlefield.[140] The RAF attempted their final resupply flight from Britain on the Saturday afternoon, but lost eight planes for little gain to the Airborne troops.[139] Some small resupply efforts would be made from Allied airfields in Europe over the next two days but to little effect.[141]

South of the river, the Poles prepared for another crossing. That night, they awaited the arrival of assault boats from XXX Corps, but these did not arrive until after midnight, and many were without oars. The crossings started at 03:00, with fire support from the 43rd Wessex Division.[142] Through the remaining hours of darkness, only 153 men were able to cross – less than ¼ of the hoped for reinforcement.[143]


9 posted on 09/23/2014 4:40:12 AM PDT by abb ("News reporting is too important to be left to the journalists." Walter Abbott (1950 -))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Thomas Dewey: ‘I can do socialism better than Roosevelt.’


10 posted on 09/23/2014 6:15:44 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (I'll entertain the idea of "virtual fences" after they put one around the White House.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
I'll just string all the maps together today. For comparison purposes, here are the German and American situation maps for Holland today. To say the fighting is somewhat confused would be an understatement. The German map is not all that accurate, and the American map is not all that clear.

23 Sept 44 German Holland photo 23Sept44GermanHolland_zpsd7ae1066.jpg

 photo 78417b82-84b8-449d-a2ef-8eeb52098752_zps86a0682a.jpg

The German and American maps for Aachen:

23 Sept 44 German Aachen photo 23Sept44GermanAachen_zpsf365c4b6.jpg

 photo 1e6a76f8-73f6-463a-bdb3-012cc7d489e7_zpsa45ef461.jpg

The American map for the Ardennes. Not only are we spread very thin here, but we are using an armored division to "hold" a long sector of front, instead of using it offensively as a concentrated armored fist. This tells me that it's not just the Germans who have a shortage of troops. The advance from Normandy as spread out the Allies as well. In part, the pursuit petered out because of logistics. Also, in part, it petered out because we got spread too thin. This won't be resolved until more divisions arrive from the States. Gee, it sure would be nice to route them through Antwerp, wouldn't it?

 photo da055339-d1e1-454e-92eb-e64881b43153_zps74077995.jpg

The German and American maps for Lorraine:

23 Sept 44 German Lorraine photo 23Sept44GermanLorraine_zps1d571ece.jpg

 photo 2c1b1633-eeec-42c5-a9f2-e90499922f52_zpse096b075.jpg

11 posted on 09/23/2014 6:57:44 AM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: henkster
This tells me that it's not just the Germans who have a shortage of troops.

The German troop shortages (and the quality of replacements) got a lot of play in the press and in postwar histories, but my uncles essentially said that there was no shortage of capable Germans - at least as far as they were personally concerned - until pretty late in the game. There was a lot of juggling and plugging going on in the Fall of 1944 by both sides, using certain units/commanders to "put out fires" or cover flanks.

(Trying to figure out where 2/47 Inf was on some dates was difficult until I figured out that they had been attached to the 3rd Armored, or transferred to V Corps, etc, etc. The situation was fluid, to say the least.)

Mr. niteowl77

12 posted on 09/23/2014 8:10:28 AM PDT by niteowl77 (The five stages of Progressive persuasion: lecture, nudge, shove, arrest, liquidate.)
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To: niteowl77

The Germans had a shorter “tail” than American units, so on a percentage basis, more Germans were likely to see real shooting combat than their American counterparts.

Do you need any online resources for the 47th?

Also, my brother is trying to talk me into taking our “bucket list” to Europe to trace our uncle’s footsteps. First, I’ll have to find what unit he was with. I’ve looked at some online resources, but nothing definite yet. We know he fought and was wounded in Holland, but that’s about it for now.


13 posted on 09/23/2014 8:35:52 AM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: henkster
I've scoured - or think I have - most of what is available online, but I still haven't gotten around to trying to get copies of the daily combat reports for 2/47. My dad would like find out the actual dates and locations when/where his brother was wounded, and I think the daily reports would be the best bets.

There were a lot of details about those days that were left unspoken; my uncle had finally gotten around to the idea of a trip back to Europe (with my dad going along), but he passed away suddenly and it never happened. My dad really regrets losing the experience.

Mr. niteowl77

14 posted on 09/23/2014 9:52:09 AM PDT by niteowl77 (The five stages of Progressive persuasion: lecture, nudge, shove, arrest, liquidate.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Yesterday: Thomas Dewey: ‘I can do socialism better than Roosevelt.’

Today: GOPe: ‘We can do socialism better than the Democrats.’

15 posted on 09/23/2014 10:42:14 AM PDT by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate over unjust law & government in the forum of ideas)
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To: PapaNew

Yup. Bunch of losers.


16 posted on 09/23/2014 10:43:32 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (I'll entertain the idea of "virtual fences" after they put one around the White House.)
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To: EternalVigilance; Homer_J_Simpson; colorado tanker

“Thomas Dewey: ‘I can do socialism better than Roosevelt.’ “

This is news to me, I never realized that at least for a time, Republicans tried to out - flank Democrats ON THEIR LEFT.
Amazing... so it means that when young Ronald Reagan was a Roosevelt Democrat, he belonged to the more Conservative party!

Well, knock me over.


17 posted on 09/23/2014 11:03:31 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective..)
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To: PapaNew; EternalVigilance

No Republican for many years now would confess to trying to out - Dem the Dems.
Romney at least claimed that his own version was vastly superior to Obama Care.
His slogan was “Repeal and Replace”, which even today seems a little stronger than Dewey in 1944.


18 posted on 09/23/2014 11:13:51 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective..)
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To: BroJoeK; PapaNew; EternalVigilance
I'm not sure the GOP was ever historically a “conservative” party. Certain segments of traditional Republican policy have been consistent with Conservatism, but you can't really say that about the Party as a whole.

The Republicans were always the Party in favor of expanded civil rights, and the democrats were the party that implemented American Apartheid. That changed when LBJ outflanked the Republicans by purchasing the black vote in perpetuity with welfare money stolen from the American taxpayer.

The democrats had a very large conservative wing, particularly in the Solid South. The GOP had a very liberal wing in the Northeast; the Rockefeller and TR Republicans. While the GOP was generally the Party of Big Business, I'm not sure it was exactly “conservative.”

The hijacking of the democrat party by the communists began with Woodrow Wilson, accelerated greatly under FDR, and finally became an outright communist party in 1972. The GOP, well, with the exception of Ronald Reagan, it just kind of drifted along with the political philosophy of “we're not them” without actually being for anything at all. And it continues today.

19 posted on 09/23/2014 11:51:04 AM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: henkster
Most of the new divisions and replacements are coming through Le Havre and the "cigarette camps." I just looked up the 106th Inf. Div., one of the last to be deployed before the Bulge and it came through France, not Antwerp. It was assigned to hold a 26 mile front, so even with reinforcements we were still short of manpower before the Bulge. The 101st and 82nd were the only theater reserves on the Continent when the Germans hit.

It really, really hurt waiting so long for Antwerp to open.

I read somewhere recently we also were supposed to take and open Rotterdam, but that obviously didn't happen. To this day Rotterdam and Antwerp are the two biggest ports in Europe.

20 posted on 09/23/2014 12:16:36 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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