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Russia warns Ukraine of ‘irreversible consequences’ after cross-border shelling
Wash Post ^ | 7-13-2014 | Karoun Demirjian and Michael Birnbaum

Posted on 07/13/2014 9:41:43 AM PDT by tcrlaf

Edited on 07/13/2014 9:45:31 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

MOSCOW— Russia is warning Ukraine of “irreversible consequences” after cross-border shelling from the battle-worn east struck Russian territory Sunday, reportedly killing one Russian citizen and injuring two others.

“This incident highlights the extremely dangerous escalation of tensions in the Russian-Ukrainian border and may have irreversible consequences, the responsibility for which lies on the Ukrainian side,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement Sunday, calling the incident an “aggressive action.”

Russian officials summoned the Ukrainian charge d’affaires to the foreign ministry in Moscow to protest the civilian’s death, which they say occurred when the Ukrainian army in the Luhansk region shelled Russia’s Rostov region across the border, hitting a residential building.

Ukrainian officials vehemently deny that they have fired on Russian territory and are questioning whether Russia is making up details surrounding the incident simply to build a case against Ukraine’s military.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: border; civilwar; russia; ukraine; ukrainecrisis
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Kiev is, of course, denying that it was their forces, but there has been heavy fighting at both of the crossings next to this town, as Kiev tries to take them back from the rebels.
1 posted on 07/13/2014 9:41:43 AM PDT by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf

Another propaganda source? /sarc


2 posted on 07/13/2014 9:44:15 AM PDT by McGruff (There's none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: McGruff

For cripe’s sake, quit whining about Russia Today.


3 posted on 07/13/2014 9:47:12 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf; 1rudeboy; McGruff

Correct me if I am wrong on this... Elected government of Ukraine forced out by protesters; Russia & government of Ukraine that was formed somehow get into it; people in the eastern part of Ukraine vote with Russia but the west says this election (like the first one) doesn’t count; a truce is called; the current Ukraine government calls off the truce and fighting resumes.

The elected but deposed government is not considered to be the legitimate government, but the one that somehow formed and took over is. Both elections have been called illegitimate by the US because it didn’t like the results. The protesters who overthrew the elected government are legit, but the people who are opposed to the I-don’t-know-how-it-came-about government are rebels. And Russia is the only dishonest player in this?

Would someone explain to me how we know who is what, what is going on, and why anyone believes what really happens in this conflict? Does it not appear to the rest of the world that the US only promotes democracy when the people it wants to win are elected? And why do we trust any government, including our own, to tell us the truth?

As someone said, the first casualty of war is the truth.


4 posted on 07/13/2014 9:57:48 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: Pining_4_TX

You pretty much got it right...

The EuroMaidan “supporters” would like everyone to forget that if it weren’t for the coup, NONE of this would be happening, people wouldn’t be dying in droves, and Crimea would still have a Ukrainian Flag flying over it.


5 posted on 07/13/2014 10:20:48 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Pining_4_TX
Correct me if I am wrong on this...

I'll try.

Elected president of Ukraine forced out by protestors because it reneged on a deal with the EU because of Russian pressure. Russians are miffed, because they consider Ukraine a vassal state, seize Crimea, conduct a sham election. Separatists in the east seize various towns with Russian help, claiming broad popular support. There is fighting on both sides, truces or not.

The deposed president flees to Russia, replaced by a democratically-elected president. Most of the MPs remain. No voting occurred in the separatist regions because the separatists, and Russia, wouldn't allow it.

The Russians, as always, claim it is our fault.

6 posted on 07/13/2014 10:23:05 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
The Russians, as always, claim it is our fault.

with good reason. John McCain tells Ukraine protesters: 'We are here to support your just cause' which basically gave them a green light to overthrow their government. Not the first war McCain has started recently.

7 posted on 07/13/2014 10:29:18 AM PDT by McGruff (There's none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: 1rudeboy

And the US, as always claims it is Russia’s fault. You have more faith in the US government than I do. All governments lie.

Considering that the EU is as socialist or maybe more so than Russia and that Europe is being taken over by Muslims, I don’t see how aligning oneself with Europe is some big blow for freedom.


8 posted on 07/13/2014 10:29:59 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: Pining_4_TX

It appears that you are looking to excuse Russia’s behavior. Good luck. You won’t find your excuse in the EU’s socialist tendencies, preference for Muslims, or John McCain.


9 posted on 07/13/2014 10:36:22 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Pining_4_TX always claims not to understand situation in Ukraine. To coin a phrase: “here are none so blind as those that refuse to see,” so basically my suggestion is don’t try! :D


10 posted on 07/13/2014 10:38:49 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
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To: 1rudeboy

I’m not excusing anyone. I don’t like being lied to and that is what is going on. Nobody here can say what is really happeing there, and for some reason Americans want to instantly see one side as completely bad and the other as pure as the driven snow. It’s fantasy.


11 posted on 07/13/2014 10:44:32 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: Pining_4_TX
I believe you are confusing "instantly see[ing] one side as completely bad" and "considering past statements and behavior."

Russia is not a blank slate, and Russian history (or anyone else's) did not begin in 2013.

12 posted on 07/13/2014 10:49:05 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Pining_4_TX
Looking at this from the standpoint of the US wanting to discredit all the advances Russia made on the International Stage, especially with the EU, not to mention the formation of Brics, and pipeline advances. Coupled with a US PRes. who could not gain “respect” among International Leaders, you can see that Alibama had to keep the ball moving to someone slow Putin down.......and the Atlantic Council/Nato had to slow him down.

They ‘chose’ Ukraine for the conflict....and here we are.

Interesting Putin is now operating in Cuba and South America....in our backyard....Putin makes no deals out of the goodness of his heart....dropping Cuba's humongous debt, in the billions, you can't help wonder what he got in return?...and what deals he will forge in S.America as well.

13 posted on 07/13/2014 10:54:43 AM PDT by caww
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To: Pining_4_TX

“....Americans want to instantly see one side as completely bad and the other as pure as the driven snow. It’s fantasy.”

No ma’am, with due respect, it is reality not fantasy. A sadly necessary reality. There is an old saying that, “What is the difference between a freedom fighter and the terrorist?...the answer being...It depends on which side they are on.” When a group is “friendly” towards the US (or at least in our best interests) they will (of necessity) get our support. That is how the real world works. It is NOT about spreading “democracy” per se, it is about preserving the U.S. way of life (a republic).


14 posted on 07/13/2014 11:06:05 AM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: caww
A major fault with that reasoning is the assumption that Putin is just a nice guy who wants "respect." That he, or Russia, would not dare to meddle in the affairs of his, or its, "near abroad," despite years of statements and behavior proving the opposite.

So the US, the Atlantic Council (whatever the heck that is), and NATO did not "choose" Ukraine. Geography, Russian history, and Ukraine's memory of Russian history did.

One good thing about Putin and Cuba/S. America? When something happens, he won't be able to blame NATO. He will try, anyway.

15 posted on 07/13/2014 11:21:21 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

The irreversible consequences were triggered when KGB Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked and occupied her territory. Brutal war with no end end sight between Russia and Ukraine is now inevitable. This war will be fought not just in Ukraine, but in Russia. Russians will pay a price in blood for their stupid evil savagery.


16 posted on 07/13/2014 11:28:18 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: 1rudeboy

....”the Atlantic Council (whatever the heck that is), and NATO did not “choose” Ukraine”....

Well if you don’t know who or what the Atlantic Council is then no wonder you get it wrong so often.

But they most certainly did “choose” Ukraine and the US was obviously supportive if not the lead.

Putin doesn’t give a rats buns what nation leaders think now...any more than Israel does. They are moving to do what they believe needs doing of because they know that they can withstand any who oppose them....it’s just that simple.


17 posted on 07/13/2014 11:28:53 AM PDT by caww
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To: Pining_4_TX

There was never any truce. The “truce” was a unilateral ceasefire called by the Ukrainian side which the Russian ethnic separatist terrorists never agreed to or abided by at all.


18 posted on 07/13/2014 11:32:19 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I want some of whatever you are drinking.


19 posted on 07/13/2014 11:33:20 AM PDT by McGruff (There's none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: 1rudeboy; All

“A major fault with that reasoning is the assumption that Putin is just a nice guy who wants “respect.” “

Nobody paying attention thinks Putin is “nice guy”. He is a cold, calculating SOB raised to Machiavellian thinking.

That said, because of that very Machiavellian thinking, he understands what is happening in DC and other capitals today better than Obama and the Radical Socialist Ideologue minions he is surrounded by.

They wanted to “get back” at Putin for stopping Obama’s attack on Syria, and they chose the already existing urest in Ukraine to do it. They handed Putin a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and he took advantage of it.

The result of that is what we are seeing today. Ukraine in Chaos, and the Obama administration calling the shots, while the cronies scoop up the assets, like Biden’s son, and Kerry’s nephew, are doing.

The very same “Moderate” Syrian Rebels that Obama almost went to war to support, creating a “Caliphate” in Iraq, while Putin outmaneuvers “The Smartest Man Ever Born!” again, by providing real help to the Iraq government.

An “Eastern Bloc” is forming before our very eyes, instigated in large part by the weakness and indecision shown in DC.


20 posted on 07/13/2014 11:34:39 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: caww

Putin doesn’t give a rats buns what nation leaders think now...any more than Israel does.

Take serious note of how quiet Official Russia has been about events in Gaza this time around.


21 posted on 07/13/2014 11:36:31 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

“The irreversible consequences were triggered when KGB Putin invaded Ukraine unprovoked and occupied her territory”

Only someone who is willfully and completely ignoring everything that happened BEFORE Crimea could say that with a straight face....


22 posted on 07/13/2014 11:38:42 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

This isn’t about Ukraine.....Putin’s moved way beyond Ukraine and has been for sometime....what we see in Ukraine is simply stalling for as long as necessary while the real players position themselves..... It does keep people occupied.


23 posted on 07/13/2014 11:42:36 AM PDT by caww
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To: Pining_4_TX
You have more faith in the Kremlin than I do.

The socialists and nazis in the EU all support the Russian side, while the EU conservatives support Ukraine.

Russia is more muslim than the EU. The EU is less than 4% muslim with less than twenty million muslims total. Russia is already 14% muslim with over 23 million muslims. Moscow alone has over two million muslims. The largest mosque in Europe is in Russia, built during the Putin regime. Putin himself has a muslim Tatar mistress and two little illegitimate muslim Tatar children.

24 posted on 07/13/2014 11:43:40 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: caww
Well if you don’t know who or what the Atlantic Council is then no wonder you get it wrong so often.

LOL, even Russia Today hasn't blamed the Atlantic Council, going to show what an idiotic notion it is.

25 posted on 07/13/2014 11:45:57 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

A “once-in-a-lifetime” opportunity that Russia takes advantage of every few years. LOL


26 posted on 07/13/2014 11:47:31 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

Everything that happened before Crimea happened in Ukraine and was none of Russia’s business. Ukrainians never attacked Russia or did anything to provoke Russia’s premeditated invasion which was planned for years.


27 posted on 07/13/2014 11:49:43 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: tcrlaf
....”Take serious note of how quiet Official Russia has been about events in Gaza this time around”....

“Serious note” is right....and well noted tcraf...at most a little lip service here and there but nothing substantial.

Glad seeing some are watching what and where Putin is NOW.....he should be watched like a hawk... and he's doing a bang up job of keeping people otherwise occupied.

Am still trying to find out exactly what Putin got for forgiving Cuba is huge debt.....10 agreements in all...he is definitely positioning himself on our back doorstep...he's on to Argentina and others as well....World cup today...check this out...


28 posted on 07/13/2014 11:53:52 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

“Am still trying to find out exactly what Putin got for forgiving Cuba is huge debt.....”

Offshore oil and gas rights...

Russia’s Rosneft to help Cuba explore offshore oil reserves
http://rt.com/business/172204-russia-cuba-rosneft-cupet/

And rumors of a basing agreement for Russian forces.


29 posted on 07/13/2014 12:00:46 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
....”Everything that happened before Crimea happened in Ukraine and was none of Russia’s business”......

That's not how Ukrainians saw it.....if it was none of Russia's business then why were they concerned about Russia shutting of their oil?.....It's obvious just with the pipelines alone it was very much Russia's business...and the huge debt Ukraine owes Russia....not to mention Putin wasn't about to let his ports go to any other himself.

We would do likewise...and do concerning our dependence on Saudi Oil......you don't think we went into Kuwait just because Saddam was going into Kuwait do you?

To say Ukraine wasn't Russia's business you have to have a limited understanding of the region and all those surrounding Russia...as well Nato’s agenda for it all.

30 posted on 07/13/2014 12:01:52 PM PDT by caww
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To: tcrlaf

No surprise there...Putin well recognizes the political power of oil and other resources....but have you seen anything about a Russian Base in Cuba? If Putin did orchestrate that in the deal then it likely won’t be made public until he’s ready for it’s impact.

My understanding is there were ‘ten’ agreements signed and sealed between Putin and Russia.


31 posted on 07/13/2014 12:04:24 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

“That’s not how Ukrainians saw it..”

Which Ukrainians?

The ones with the Nazi flags?
Or the ones in the Southeast that speak Russian?


32 posted on 07/13/2014 12:08:44 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: caww

Wait a minute. If Ukraine is “Russia’s business,” then why can’t it be NATO’s business as well?


33 posted on 07/13/2014 12:11:24 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

The only thing worse than Ukrainian Nazis is Russian Nazis, and that’s no small feat.


34 posted on 07/13/2014 12:12:16 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

....”Which Ukrainians?.......The ones with the Nazi flags?
Or the ones in the Southeast that speak Russian?”....

Yes....both. Not to mention the very Governance of Ukraine at the time, before the Revolution, and since.


35 posted on 07/13/2014 12:19:07 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

“and do concerning our dependence on Saudi Oil”

“We” (meaning the U.S.) are only dependent on Saudi oil for ONE reason.

Two decades of Democrat/Socialist Regulations that prevent us from exploiting our own resources, like the “light-sweet” regs that force us to send Alaskan oil to China and Japan, rather than use it here.


36 posted on 07/13/2014 12:19:16 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: 1rudeboy

....”If Ukraine is “Russia’s business,” then why can’t it be NATO’s business as well?”......

Do you Really have that question at this point? To even ask it reveals volumes.


37 posted on 07/13/2014 12:21:25 PM PDT by caww
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To: tcrlaf

....”Two decades of Democrat/Socialist Regulations that prevent us from exploiting our own resources, like the “light-sweet” regs that force us to send Alaskan oil to China and Japan, rather than use it here”....

I agree....that is the ONLY reason we’re dependent on Saudi oil.....and also why there’s more upheaval in the ME among those nations...they know their time is running out where they can use their oil as political leverage.


38 posted on 07/13/2014 12:24:23 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
First of all, the dispute is over gas pipelines, not oil. The pipelines belong to Ukraine, not Russia. If Putin doesn't want to do business with Ukraine, then he should sell his gas to his Chi-com comrades.

The Ukrainians on the Maidan withstood freezing temperatures for weeks in the middle of winter and didn't back down. Putin's threat to cut off their gas doesn't scare them anymore. They are willing to sacrifice in order gain their freedom from their Neo-Soviet Russian oppressors.

Has Russia's invasion of Ukraine made it more or less likely that they will pay off the debt they owe Russia? Do you really expect Ukraine to pay Russia now?

The Ukrainians never attacked or even threatened Russia's Crimean port in any way. They barely even resisted Russia's invasion! They could not even defend themselves from attack, much less pose the Russians any credible threat. Nor does NATO need or want Crimea, since we already control access to the Black Sea and can project power then whenever we choose to do so.

We invaded Kuwait to secure our our own oil supply. Putin on the other hand has not secured anything by invading Crimea, because the gas pipelines to the EU do not go through Crimea.

39 posted on 07/13/2014 12:53:53 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: caww

No, it gets right to the point: if excusing Russian behavior by claiming that NATO is meddling in “its” affairs, then why can’t one excuse NATO’s behavior because Russia is meddling in its affairs?


40 posted on 07/13/2014 1:00:13 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Tailgunner Joe; All

Latest developments, per Twitter:

-In its debut flight mission, Rebel-controlled Su-25 detroyed 6 government MBTs and 1 APC

Unconfirmed Twitter reports that the rebel siege at Lugansk Airport may be broken, and that the outer defense line of Lugansk City may have fallen, and rebel troops have retreated into the city

The assault from the south was made by 80-90 AFV’s and MBT’s. The battle has been going on for 12 hours.

Rebels counter-attacked from the city with tanks and artillery, and have stabilized the line. HEAVY casualties being reported, as Kiev continues to shell the south part of the city.

Meanwhile, in Kiev, Ukraine’s Interior Minister Avakov accuses the Maidan of discrediting the revolution.

Funny how the dissenters aren’t tolerant of the dissenters, eh?


41 posted on 07/13/2014 1:08:30 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

As said Putin’s moved well beyond Ukraine....regardless who “Owns” the pipelines...Ukraine cooked their own goose in that respect.

I could care less what so called Maidan did, I’d just as soon they froze to death quite frankly for the plans to hi-jack them were long in the making..before they even hit the streets. ...which is the problem with youth making up the bulk of these getting off the ground....they can’t see or manage the “other” elements when they step onto the gameboard. They get too caught up into “the moment” rather than watch their backs. They have no skills in how the game is REALLY played and why outside influences are so qucik to take them over.

Russia doesn’t care if or not Ukraine pays it’s debt, though it makes for leverage when to Russia’s advantage politically. They already wrote off Ukraine.

As mentioned before if you or others want to believe this is about Ukrainian people, well go at it...but it’s not and never was. This is about the big boys park and who gets to play in it and for it....Ukraine’s people are simply the pawns on the board that get moved or taken in check-mate.

Crimea was always Russia prior...Krushy baby handed it over to Ukraine as a “gift”...the people had zero choice in the matter. Putin took it back and the people rose to the occassion...they had no intentions of fighting. Although Ukraines army would have rather retained their place among.

Further Nato wants ALL the Baltic nations under it’s control...in order to checkmate Russia. It’s really not hard to figure out....Putin said very little as they scoped up one nation after another....(the peoples choice) so why have a problem when Crimeans went along with their choice to return to Russia? You can’t have it both ways....further we do not have control of the Black Sea. Being in it doesn’t make you overlord of it. Further...Putin secured his Ports and fleets in Crimea.....side benefit was the resources.

We moved into Kuwait only because Saudi insisted we do when Saddam was right on ‘their border’ ready to invade.


42 posted on 07/13/2014 1:11:43 PM PDT by caww
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To: tcrlaf; All

Right after I posted the above, this Tweet popped up from a Rebel account:

Lugansk: Fierce shelling
Used aircraft & Sabotage/Intel group
Airport is ours. Offensive launched on Schastye

Roskoshnoe free
(This is where a large National Guard unti is reported to be “Eliminated” by the rebels, a couple of hours ago.)

So who knows.....


43 posted on 07/13/2014 1:13:37 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

It’s been in their news. See “Russia Today” aka RT


44 posted on 07/13/2014 1:15:36 PM PDT by ResisTyr ("Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God " ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: caww

“This is about the big boys park and who gets to play in it and for it....Ukraine’s people are simply the pawns on the board that get moved or taken in check-mate.”

Bingo....

I’ll add that WINTER IS COMING, and it is going to get damned cold soon.


45 posted on 07/13/2014 1:18:00 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

Russia has invaded Ukraine, Ukraine has not invaded Russia. I pee on your Russian bullshite propaganda.

Ukrainians are being killed in Ukraine by Russians. Russians have been killed in Ukraine but they would not been killed killed if they had stayed in Russia.

The remaining group is a bunch of paid Russian psychopaths that everyone in Ukraine wants dead. The sooner that happens the better.


46 posted on 07/13/2014 1:24:59 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: tcrlaf

I have been paying attention...and you are correct. In fact, I amazed at Putin’s restraint in this conflicts. As far I see, he waits for disgruntled ethnic Russian citizens in Ukraine to rise up against corruption & murder & only THEN moves to support them. And at least he goes to his Duma for “permission” to act, unlike the gay Muslim-in-chief who unilaterally does as he sees fit. Congress?? What Congress??


47 posted on 07/13/2014 1:25:05 PM PDT by ResisTyr ("Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God " ~Thomas Jefferson)
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To: tcrlaf

....”I’ll add that WINTER IS COMING, and it is going to get damned cold soon”.....

Yes, and I don’t think the USA’S minyuns in Kiev can orchestrate fast enough any alternatives....they may end up cold indeed.

However I will say this....those in the north who remain either will be taken care of via Russia...or and they will use all the buidings Kiev destroyed for fires they can at least get by on throughout the winter....at least what few of them who have remained.

I heard that Kiev has promised Western Ukrainians “free homes” the Russiains have left....if they move there. Interesting way to re-populate the area with “their people” for the next “fight” down the road.

As said they simply use the people for political advantages....just as the US does us now.


48 posted on 07/13/2014 1:27:36 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
Putin still has to deal with Ukraine because they still control the pipelines into Europe. So Putin gained nothing. In fact he lost, because due to Putin's actions, Brussels has halted his planned South Stream pipeline across the Black Sea which would have cut Ukraine out.

For such foolish naive amateurs, the Maidan youths have gotten the better of Putin. They overthrew his puppet and sent him running to cower behind his Russian masters. Maidan won and Putin lost!

Putin's invasion of Crimea gained him nothing and has cost him enormously. It was a desperate attempt to save face after his humiliating defeat at the hands of Ukrainian patriots. His miserable failure to take “Novorossiya” has exposed his impotence for all to see and has even enraged his own people who will soon turn against him.

Putin's Black Sea fleet is worthless. NATO’s forces are far superior to Russia's and we can keep the useless Russian forces bottled up. Checkmate!

49 posted on 07/13/2014 1:29:09 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: tcrlaf; All

Another Tweet from aother Rebel following account.

Rebels apparently have counter-attacked, and are taking/have retaken the airport.

Several tweets saying different things, but the conclusion is that a big fight is happening south of the city, right now, while shelling of the city itself continues.


50 posted on 07/13/2014 1:29:37 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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