Indeed, chaplain.
Jesus Christ: You can’t impeach Him and He ain’t going to resign.
Posted on 06/17/2014 8:57:42 AM PDT by xzins
Besides, in spite of the rise to power of the Nazis and Military takeover in Japan each already had more or less universal suffrage by the 30's (women's suffrage movement in Japan was well underway by the time of the Pacific war).
There is no comparison between what happened following WWII and what we have tried to accomplish in the ME and elsewhere.
What we are learning is we cannot make a people accept democracy who do not want it. And muslims do not.
This is what happens when you let democrats in the White House. They will do everything to loose a war that has been won. Vietnam was a draw and would have likely ended up like Korea, but the democrats made sure that draw was turned into a loss.
The number one reason to send in air-power now is to kill terrorists in bunches instead of one at a time. Chew up their vehicles and put them on foot.
The scariest thing is the $400M in terrorist hands.
The only thing surprising about what is happening is that it took so long. With a strong man removed from power in Iraq, the vacuum will suck in a steaming pile of Islamic crap. We gave it a heroic effort, but it is time for this generation to learn what past generations knew, Islam can’t be fixed. It needs to be controlled by power and fear. If we run off and kill the tyrants who do that, we get something worse, more Islam.
Fortunately, he wasn’t.
As I said in a different post, Iraq and Afghanistan both should have been reprisals. I’ve said this for years...from the beginning almost. We should have invaded, killed our enemies, cleared the land of any significant weapons systems, and left with a promise to come smack them down again if they bothered us again.
However, I voted for Bush. I was a Bush-bot, to be honest with you. And since he was the president, he was in the constitutional seat to make the decision. I don’t think he decided on nation-building out of anything other than a desire to do what he thought best. So, I supported a decision that I wouldn’t have made myself.
And our troops went and with true ‘honor and distinction’ kicked ass and implemented policy. Wherever they were allowed to fight, they won. They still do.
And, yes, it would take 100 years to tame that country and re-orient them, but our troops could do it.
Way too much time, but they would succeed. This current leadership has betrayed them by not even trying to fight but still being willing to allow American deaths. They have literally sacrificed lives to do nothing.
And would it have been worth the time, effort, cost, and lives?
This current leadership has betrayed them by not even trying to fight but still being willing to allow American deaths.
A case can be made that this administration has decided not to compound the error that led to thousands of U.S. military personnel being killed or maimed, and trillions of dollars being spent, by sacrificing more lives and more money to a country that is not worth saving and for a people who should be fighting for themselves.
Keeping troops in Iraq after a government was installed we had influence over, was absolutely necessary to national security. We needed to maintain a base of operation there to assure terrorists hostile to this nation didn't takeover the country.
It would be equally stupid to pull out of Afghanistan and not leave troops there for the same reason.
Obama has provided weaponry to this group ever since they were in Syria fighting that war and probably prepping for this invasion.
We need to support the Kurds in my mind and let the ISIS sunnis and the Maliki Shi’ites fight it out. The Kurds seem to be the only sane ones in the entire region. So, I want them to survive. I even support a Kurdistan homeland if THEY do it.
The main thing about radical Islam is that the main target is the United States of America. They repeat it over and over for we are the great Satan. Let us not forget that.
The rules of engagement they’ve saddled our troops with argue against any notion that this administration if trying to prevent sacrificing of American lives. And the fact that we could pack up and leave in a matter of days says that this sacrifice of lives is policy.
I wouldn’t call Mexico a democracy, but it has a stable government. That sort of pseudo-democracy is about all we could have hoped for in a Muslim country - and it would have required us to keep troops there in significant (10,000+) numbers for 50-100 years.
We understood that commitment in Korea. GWB failed because he didn’t even try to make that commitment in an area even more ripe for failure than Korea.
If we had done so and turned Iraq into a reasonably stable and decent place to live, it would have been a game changer for all of the ME. If we were not committed to the long haul, then our best bet was to punish and get out, per Rumsfeld.
Indeed, chaplain.
Jesus Christ: You can’t impeach Him and He ain’t going to resign.
That may be true but that doesn't mean we should pulled out of Iraq and let a terrorist group hostile to the US take it over. This after releasing the leader of the terrorist group from an Iraqi prison.
We hardly packed up and left in a matter of days. The withdrawal was three years in the making. And we left a trained military and a corrupt leader in charge, but there wasn't a lot we could do about that. Since leaving, al Maliki created his own problems by selecting his army commanders based on loyalty and not on skill, and by purging any Sunni from positions of power. He created this problem, not the U.S. And now people want us to rush back in and save his bacon, so to speak, by pouring in money and manpower. So say we do it? Say we commit our forces - again - and end the insurrection - again - at the cost of more lives and more money and more pressure on an already overworked U.S. military, then what? Remain for a hundred years to keep the lid on? Occupy Iraq and invade Syria to clean up the mess there? Where does it end? When is enough, enough? You're not going to change them. You're not going to establish demoocracies. You're not going to keep the Sunni from killing Shia and vice versa. You're not going to get them to love us any more or hate us any worse. You're just going to waste more lives and pour more money down a worthless rathole. And for what?
I’m talking Afghanistan, but I’m sure we could pack up and leave in a matter of days. Just issue the orders and the military will make it happen.
The military has been drawing down for a year or more; shipping stuff back home or turning it over to the Afghan army or just plain blowing it up. We've trained their army, that part which isn't shooting us at any rate. We're turning it over to a corrupt leader in Karzai. And you know what? I don't expect any better future for that country than we got for Iraq. There isn't enough time and money and manpower to change the people over there. Maybe someday, when boobs like McCain and Graham and the other ones beating war drums are out of office, we'll learn that.
And maybe it would all have been worth it.
But the truth is the American people do not have the patience nor the attention span necessary to support such a project, and our leaders are a reflection of this.
I will never agree to put my or anyone else's son's life at risk with such a fickle & self interested country as we've become, unless success can be measured in months or years instead of decades, and the objectives are tangible in addition to being the US's vital & immediate interests.
It seems we agree, then:
“But the truth is the American people do not have the patience nor the attention span necessary to support such a project, and our leaders are a reflection of this.”
I think that is what has changed since WW2 & Korea. The adults are gone, and we are largely a nation of 13 year olds, regardless of how many years have passed since birth. In the last 60 years we gone from a nation of achievers to a nation of feel-gooders, and the latter are incapable of commitments longer than the average video game.
“I will never agree to put my or anyone else’s son’s life at risk with such a fickle & self interested country as we’ve become...”
The shame of it is that I went to Afghanistan at 49, and my two oldest kids went to Iraq & Afghanistan, and my SIL did 2 tours in Fallujah, and my nieces are married to men who went to Iraq, and my nephew is in Afghanistan now...and it is all for nothing. In 1950, my family would have been pretty typical. Now we are freaks. And the child-voters have their Obamanation, carrying out their wishes. In 20 years, they will be like the voters of Detroit, wondering why everything has gone to hell and incapable of accepting the blame they deserve.
There is some benefit - you have your honor & good name, as well as the respect and undying gratitude of those still living in whats left of the country we grew up in.
For what its worth.
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