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Christian cop loses appeal ( Tulsa, OK : Muslims )
WND ^ | May 24, 2014

Posted on 05/24/2014 6:46:16 AM PDT by george76

Event included discussion of Islamic beliefs, Muhammad, Mecca, prayer, Quran.

A panel of federal judges in Denver, in an opinion written by Judge Harris Hartz, found that it is perfectly appropriate for a police chief to order subordinates to attend an Islamic mosque where Muslims “discussed Islamic beliefs, Muhammad, Mecca, and why and how Muslims pray” in addition to encouraging officers “to buy” Islamic books and pamphlets that were for sale.

The ruling came on Thursday from the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in a case brought by Capt. Paul Fields, who had been ordered by Tulsa police officials to either go to a special event at the local mosque himself, or order others to do that.

Fields refused based on religious freedom objections and was punished for that.

...

The police department executives had promised they would send officers to the mosque for Muslims to talk to them about the Quran, Muhammad and the rest, but were unable to get volunteers. So they issued an order making attend mandatory.

Fields objected, telling officials, “Please consider this email my official notification to the Tulsa Police Department and the City of Tulsa that I intend not to follow this directive, nor require any of my subordinates to do so if they share similar religious convictions.”

Police officials immediately launched an internal affairs investigation which resulted in a two-week suspension for Fields, and a permanent demotion.

...

The Tulsa Islamic organization has featured speakers such as Imam Siraj Wahhaj, “a Shariah-adherent Muslim who promotes the destruction of Western civilization and the creation of an Islamic caliphate

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Oklahoma; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: brigittegabriel; dhimmi; dhimmitude; gabriel; sharia; sharialaw

1 posted on 05/24/2014 6:46:16 AM PDT by george76
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To: george76

Just go, do not take off shows, do not pray or stick butt in the air. Keep mouth shut and leave.


2 posted on 05/24/2014 6:49:35 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat

Oh, almost forgot, case the joint and take pictures.


3 posted on 05/24/2014 6:49:55 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat

Get to know what’s going on there. Become the eyes and ears of the community.

Just don’t participate otherwise.


4 posted on 05/24/2014 6:51:48 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: george76

In other words, Christians have no rights.


5 posted on 05/24/2014 6:55:59 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: george76

I was there with Brigitte Gabriel’s group “ACT! for America” when we marched on City Hall in Tulsa and delivered the signed petition to the Mayor’s Office on behalf of Captain Paul Fields of the Tulsa Police Department.

And I also protested against the Tulsa Islamic facility (that was the object of the “visit” by the Captain) along with Jesse Harrison who was the guy who was locked up in a “mental ward” by the Tulsa Police Department because that same facility told the police that his protests (in public and out on the sidewalk) were threats to them!

He got out of the mental ward after a couple of weeks when he demanded a hearing for release, and the doctors could come up with no reason for holding him, despite what the Tulsa Police or the Islamic facility said!


6 posted on 05/24/2014 7:03:55 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: george76

The group that was actively involved with this ...

Brigitte Gabriel
ACT! For America
https://www.actforamerica.org/index.php/learn/about-act-for-america


7 posted on 05/24/2014 7:07:37 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: george76

Infidels will submit to Allah


8 posted on 05/24/2014 7:09:48 AM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (Obama - "I will stand with the Muslims")
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To: george76

The police dept and the judges are a$$holes.


9 posted on 05/24/2014 7:09:56 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible. Complicit in the destruction of this country.)
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To: george76

Where do I contribute to have this atrocity appealed to the Supreme Court?

I have little confidence that the Supremes would stand up for the rights of Christians, but at least the case would get some publicity and a few more Christians might realize the danger they are in.


10 posted on 05/24/2014 7:12:44 AM PDT by Junk Silver
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To: george76

“Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.”

1 Corinthians 10:14


11 posted on 05/24/2014 7:15:01 AM PDT by Junk Silver
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To: Star Traveler; george76; All
Thank You, Both; for the information and the post. :-)

12 posted on 05/24/2014 7:30:58 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun..0'Bathhouse/"Rustler" Reid? d8-)
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To: george76

Wear headphones and listen to music.


13 posted on 05/24/2014 7:34:37 AM PDT by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: Junk Silver

Here’s where you donate to the legal defense for Captain Paul Fields and for this case:

American Freedom Law Center
http://www.americanfreedomlawcenter.org/case/captain-paul-fields-v-city-of-tulsa-oklahoma/


14 posted on 05/24/2014 7:49:02 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: george76

This is the lawyer involved in this court case, on behalf of Captain Paul Fields of the Tulsa Police Department.

David Yerushalmi, Esq.

David Yerushalmi is an AV® Preeminent™ rated lawyer specializing in litigation and risk analysis, especially as it relates to geo-strategic policy, national security, international business relations, securities law, and disclosure and due diligence requirements for domestic and international concerns. Mr. Yerushalmi has been involved in international legal and constitutional matters since 1984. After completing his undergraduate studies with a B.S., summa cum laude, in public policy studies and criminal justice, Mr. Yerushalmi received his Juris Doctorate from Arizona State University College of Law in 1984 as the recipient of the Most Outstanding Graduate Award. After graduation, Mr. Yerushalmi worked as a lawyer specializing in securities, banking, and environmental law in the Los Angeles office of the law firm of Dewey & LeBoeuf L.L.P. (then known as LeBoeuf, Lamb, Leiby & Macrae). Mr. Yerushalmi is licensed to practice law in Washington, D.C., New York, California, and Arizona.

Professional Memberships

Mr. Yerushalmi also serves as General Counsel to the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C., one of the nation’s leading national security think tanks founded by former Reagan administration official Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.

Mr. Yerushalmi is today considered an expert on Islamic law and its intersection with Islamic terrorism and national security. In this capacity, he has published widely on the subject, including the principal critical scholarship on sharia-compliant finance published in the Utah Law Review (2008, Issue 3). Mr. Yerushalmi also designed and co-authored a ground-breaking peer reviewed empirical investigation on sharia-adherence and the promotion of violent, jihadist literature in U.S. mosques published in the Middle East Quarterly (Summer 2011) and then republished in a more detailed format in Perspectives on Terrorism, the journal of the prestigious Terrorism Research Initiative. This research and scholarship on sharia was earlier the focus of a 2008 monograph published by the McCormick Foundation and the Center for Security Policy entitled, “Shariah, Law and ‘Financial Jihad’: How Should America Respond?” Just recently, Mr. Yerushalmi was listed by Forward Magazine as one of the top 50 Jewish leaders in 2011 for his work shaping the policy initiatives countering the threat from sharia.

In 2010, Mr. Yerushalmi participated as a co-author and member of Team ‘B’ in the seminal work on counter-terrorism entitled, Shariah: The Threat To America, An Exercise in Competitive Analysis, Report of Team ‘B’ II, published by the Center for Security Policy, and he has also produced and narrated a one-hour CLE program for legal professionals addressing the requirement of proper disclosure in sharia-compliant financial products. That same year, Mr. Yerushalmi drafted what has become known as the American Laws for American Courts Act, which was enacted into law by several states and is pending in many others. This legislation, crafted especially for states, is an effort to insulate state courts from the growing tendency to embrace constitutionally offensive foreign laws, including sharia.

In Mr. Yerushalmi’s role as a staunch defender of the Constitution and federalism, he was co-counsel in one of the most important court challenges to the federal law mandating health insurance commonly referred to as “Obamacare” (Thomas More Law Center, et al. v. Obama, et al.,) and in a novel challenge to the U.S. government’s takeover of AIG insofar as AIG is the world’s dominant promoter of sharia-compliant insurance (Murray v. Geithner, et al.,). Mr. Yerushalmi also co-authored a scholarly article published in the Duke University Press’s Journal of Health Politics, Policy, and Law, entitled, “Wearing the Crown of Solomon? Chief Justice Roberts and the Affordable Care Act ‘Tax.’”

In Mr. Yerushalmi’s role as an advocate of legal, economic, and political reform in the Middle East and in the former republics of the Soviet Union, he has been interviewed and written about in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times,Reason Magazine, and appeared on local, national, and international radio and television programs.

Mr. Yerushalmi continues his active involvement in policy and national security matters by editing and writing contributions to various off-line and on-line publications and has published several op eds and commentaries in the Wall Street Journal, National Review, the American Spectator, First Things,FrontPageMagazine, the American Thinker, The Intellectual Conservative, theJerusalem Post, and Globes, Israel’s leading business newspaper.

http://www.americanfreedomlawcenter.org/about/leaders/david-yerushalmi-esq/


15 posted on 05/24/2014 7:53:31 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: george76

I would have gone and talked to the musies about their satanic cult and how Jesus is their only hope for salvation.


16 posted on 05/24/2014 7:53:57 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Star Traveler; george76; Mercat; Jonty30; onedoug; MrBambaLaMamba; skinkinthegrass; Starstruck; ...
Just donated $10 to the American Freedom Law Center. Hope everybody else will do the same.

American Freedom Law Center http://www.americanfreedomlawcenter.org/case/captain-paul-fields-v-city-of-tulsa-oklahoma/

17 posted on 05/24/2014 8:04:28 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West" - Aragorn)
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To: george76

Until Islam is struck down as being a 1A-protected religion, this will not change.

1A religion cannot include harm to non-believers or sedition.

CANNOT.


18 posted on 05/24/2014 8:28:31 AM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: taxcontrol

I’ll guarantee you that if you went in a Tulsa Police Department uniform, as they were told to do ... and said those things you just mentioned, there would be a lawsuit filed against the City of Tulsa and the Police Department in short order, plus the person doing it being fired.

On the other hand, if you were to go onto their property, as an individual citizen (in your own capacity) you would be ordered off the property promptly and the Tulsa Police Department called to insure you left.

In this case with Captain Paul Fields ... we’re talking about neither one of these things.

Remember, you ALSO CANNOT go into a Christian Church as a Muslim and tell all the Christians inside that building about Mohammed being the supreme prophet and Allah being the supreme god ... without the same expectations of being ordered to leave and the police department being called to insure that you do so.


19 posted on 05/24/2014 8:34:27 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Just donated. All Christians especially cops should donate. This is a stand up guy Please help him.


20 posted on 05/24/2014 8:38:58 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: Talisker

The Christian Churches themselves would fight against any such case being brought to declare Islam as a “non-religion” and thereby not coming under the protection of the US Constitution. They would want NO SUCH THING being decided by any government entity!

I would agree with them, too.

There is a difference - “under the law” and the US Constitution - between religious Islam as practiced with approval of the US Constitution, versus, Islam as a governmental authority, as practiced in some other countries in the world.

In the good ole USA, there is a difference between “Political Islam” and “Religious Islam” as practiced and PROTECTED under the US Constitution.

Anyone trying to practice “Political Islam” and trying to enforce honor killings or cutting off hands and feet or cutting off heads and all the rest if “Political Islam” will be prosecuted “under the law” and under that same US Constitution that protects all religious practices that don’t violate our laws.

So, they have the same right as Christians to trying and convince anyone in the public that their god and their prophet is the supreme one over all others. That’s how it works in the good ole USA.


21 posted on 05/24/2014 8:45:44 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Here's what you do. Is the Police Chief elected or appointed? Assuming he's appointed, make this an issue for the mayor and councilmen. Will they remove the police chief or not?

Second, demand that the judge is impeached.

22 posted on 05/24/2014 8:56:23 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (You can have a free country or government schools. Choose one.)
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To: Jabba the Nutt

Mayor Dewey Bartlett, a Republican mayor for the City of Tulsa, appointed Chuck Jordan as Chief of Police in 2010, getting rid of the former mayor’s appointment.

As it stands now, the Chief of Police still has the support of the Mayor, even though we delivered thousands of petition signers to the Mayor’s Office through ACT! For America.

To run Mayor Bartlett out of office would be to get a Democrat mayor, which I would not relish at all.

So, I would say that the best resolution is what could come from a court in overturning this.

As far as impeaching a judge, you’ll have to cite a specific violation of the law, under which he (or she) is impeached, when charges are brought to,bear against such a judge. Remember that the judicial system is to be insulated from the political machinations of the Executive and Legislative branches of government ... but, of course NOT INSULATED from direct and provable CRIMINAL CHARGES and convictions.


23 posted on 05/24/2014 9:10:38 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: george76

So, when are they going to order muslims to go to mass or synagogue and give a monetary offering into the collection?


24 posted on 05/24/2014 9:21:09 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Star Traveler
Remember, you ALSO CANNOT go into a Christian Church as a Muslim and tell all the Christians inside that building about Mohammed being the supreme prophet and Allah being the supreme god ... without the same expectations of being ordered to leave and the police department being called to insure that you do so.

Oh, really? It's just a matter of time:

Brave German lady fights Islam

25 posted on 05/24/2014 9:33:20 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: george76

If the purpose of the order was to educate police officers regarding islam, such an education can take place during an inservice at the station.

For Christians and Jews alike, being present at the place of worship during services, IS to participate in those services. Unless the police are there in an official capacity..ie to keep the peace or make arrests, then the officer was right to protest.


26 posted on 05/24/2014 9:35:06 AM PDT by PrairieLady2
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To: Albion Wilde

Unless someone proposes a Constitutional Amendment saying that people cannot be excluded or “trespassed” from private property, and such a Constitutional Amendment passes Congress by over a 2/3rds vote and passes by over 3/4ths of the states in the United States ... you’re never going to see that day.

I’ve worked in businesses where we’ve trespassed people and have called the police to document it. I can trespass people off my own property by simply “saying so” and I can call the police to enforce it.


27 posted on 05/24/2014 9:56:05 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Granted, I did not spell it out; but my post was intended to demonstrate the passivity demonstrated by the Christians in one of the most iconic churches in Western civilization, who stood by dumbly while this woman attempted to withstand the curse of an Islamic invocation over their altar. Absolutely no person rallied to her, and she was the one ejected.

I have had similar experiences in United Methodist churches over Marxist drip, drip, drips here in the past 25 years.


28 posted on 05/24/2014 10:10:11 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: PrairieLady2

The background to this particular “visit” that was ordered for the police officers, is that the police department responded to a complaint by the Islamic Center that Jesse Harrison was going to “protest” (legally) outside the center on a certain day (Jesse having let them know that he was going to do so).

The Islamic Center said that they took that as a dangerous threat to them, and asked the police department to intervene. They did, by surrounding his house with a Swat Team, arresting him and taking him to mental facility. He was there about two weeks when he demanded a hearing to determine if the mental facility could still hold him.

At the hearing the DA argued that they should continue to hold him. However, the doctors said they found no medical basis to continue to hold him, so they released him.

The very second he was released, he was immediately arrested by the Tulsa Police Department. He never got outside the facility. The DA charged him with making illegal threats (I can’t remember the exact terminology, but that’s the gist of it).

He was held in jail for a few days, until the DA finally decided to drop the charges and release him. I guess he figured out that he couldn’t “make a case” in court.

Within a few weeks after all that, the Islamic Center in Tulsa said that they were putting on a special function to THANK THE TULSA POLICE DEPARTMENT for taking care of the “Jesse Harrison” situation, as they did.

It was THIS ‘THANK YOU FUNCTION’ that the police were “ordered” to go to, because none of the officers would go “voluntarily”.

Within a few months of all that happening, Jesse Harrison planned another protest there at the Islamic Center. I was there with Jesse, along with many other men, women and children, protesting against Islam and also “for” Captain Paul Fields. The Tulsa Police Department had a presence there, while we were protesting, but did not interfere.


29 posted on 05/24/2014 10:17:22 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Islam makes no distinction between its political and religious aspects.

And neither aspect allows the existence of non-believers, or the Constitution.

You know Islamic genital mutilation, honor killings, and teachings of Sharia replacement of the Constitution are going on in America, right?

Because they are.


30 posted on 05/24/2014 2:36:18 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: george76

Nationwide Bundy posses getting closer and closer.


31 posted on 05/24/2014 2:39:31 PM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: Mercat
Oh, almost forgot, case the joint and take pictures.
... and stash bacon in hidden areas, everywhere.
32 posted on 05/24/2014 2:46:52 PM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel (a government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take everything you have)
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To: Talisker

It depends upon whose Islam you’re talking about. I can cite some Islamic organizations (they and their members) here in the USA who fight very strenuously against the Islam that the Islamists and other Islamic terrorist factions try to perpetrate.

Then there are others who provide “cover” and support for the Islamists and Islamic Terrorists. There is a range out there.

There is one person who is a big fighter against the Islamists and Islamic Terrorists and other like them who want to turn governments into a branch of the mosque, instead of being separate and distinct from it (i.e., separate and distinct from religious doctrines and enforcing them). That is Geert Wilders of the Netherlands and he has been a big fighter against these Islamists and Islamic Terrorists ... so much of a fighter against them, that these Islamists have a standing kill-order on him. He is under 24-hour protection anywhere and everywhere he goes.

I say that to let you know that Geert Wilders is very familiar with Islam and what it stands for — and yet — he is absolutely EMPHATIC in saying that he has nothing against ordinary Muslims, and that the MAJORITY of Muslims in the West are peaceful and law-abiding.

He’s been over to USA many times and he speaks out strongly against the evils of Political Islam - yet he absolutely maintains that the majority of Muslims in the West are peaceful and law-abiding.

You don’t have just one brand of Muslim in the world, and you need to fight against Political Islam, but not lump the ones (who are the majority, as Geert Wilders makes clear) in with the Islamists and Islamic Terrorists, who try to make governments into a branch of the mosque.


33 posted on 05/24/2014 5:49:23 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: george76
He should do some soul winning by sharing the gospel like this fellow: Giving the Gospel
34 posted on 05/24/2014 5:49:53 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: Talisker

Oh ... I should add one more thing to clarify things here ... let’s make it clear that religious practices which are accepted under the US Comstitution - are fully protected here in the USA, no matter what religion it is.

“CRIMES” ... on the other hand ... are not protected under the US Comstitution. If one belongs to a Mormon group and wants to believe their crazy ideas about being a god over your own world, someday in the future - that is fully protected. However, if those same people want to grab underage girls for sex and their so-called marriage - that’s treated as a CRIME in the USA, as we have seen recently.

If Muslims want to preach and teach that Mohammed is the supreme prophet and that Allah is the true god — that’s protected under the US Constitution. But if some of those people commit CRIMES and behead people, cut off hands and feet, or rape infidel girls as some kind of ‘booty’ for their version of Islam - that is not protected under the US Comstitution and they will end up being prosecuted, convicted and jailed.

Likewise, if any Christians decide to take the Bible literally and stone adulterers and/or kill homosexuals (along with a number of other illegal things) — those Christians will be prosecuted, convicted and jailed, too.

Fortunately the VAST MAJORITY of Christians now say that “those things” related to stoning and killing certain people NO LONGER APPLY today, as the Bible states it - and thus you don’t find any Christians being convicted of those kinds of crimes.


35 posted on 05/24/2014 6:02:21 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: nonsporting

Ummm ... you don’t do that in the capacity of being a police officer ... :-) ...

They don’t read the Miranda rights to someone -and- present the Gospel too ... LOL ...


36 posted on 05/24/2014 6:09:53 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Talisker

You should also keep in mind that groups like Brigitte Gabriel and her ACT! For America - fully support Muslims like Dr. Zuhdi Jasser and his group of Muslims, who fight against the Islamists and Islamic Terrorists.

See this recent thread ...

Coolness Prevails At ACT! Meeting
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3159844/posts?


37 posted on 05/24/2014 6:21:55 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Your conflation of the teachings of Islam and Christianity as both teaching hate and violence and murder towards unbelievers is an insulting and brazen lie. In addition, you cannot name ANY Islamic organizations openly preaching against Islamic violence towards unbelievers or against Sharia law because they don’t exist - and any Muslim who do believes will not say so for fear for their lives. Finally, you deliberately misrepresent Feet Wilders, who said he has nothing against non-violent and non-Sharia politicized Muslims theoretically, but cannot find any in reality because Islam forbids them.

Islam openly teaches killing non-believers, and kills them around the world, and it especially kills Christians. A pregnant Christian woman is about to be beheaded as a perfect example of this. Christians, you might have noticed, don’t do such things. Nor do Christians genitally mutilate women.

Unless you are Muslim, Muslims are taught to hate you, convert and enslave you, out kill you. That is their consistent teachings.

Your denial is both offensive and highly suspect of indefensible ulterior motives which benefit only progressives and Muslims.


38 posted on 05/24/2014 6:22:00 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Star Traveler

One more thing. The word “religion,” is also a legal term with a definition. Muslims stand alone in this world in their inclusion of political tyranny and savage and murderous violence in that term.

ALONE.

And no sane legal system would offer them legal protection for using the definition of terrorism for the word “religion.”


39 posted on 05/24/2014 6:26:05 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

Yes ... there are several Islamic organizations fighting against Islamists and Islamic Terrorists. Dr. Zuhdi Jasser and his organization of Muslims fight against this. He was invited by Representative King to testify before the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Homeland Security about this.

Dr, Jasser’s organization of Muslims is part of a larger collection of Muslim organizations who fight against this (the Islamists and Islamic Terrorists).

Brigitte Gabriel’s organization - ACT! For America - fully backs and supports Dr. Zuhdi Jasser and his organization in its message and goals — and you know that Brigitte Gabriel is a great fighter against Political Islam, but not against Muslims.


40 posted on 05/24/2014 6:30:34 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Note that I do acknowledge the heroic work of Dr. Zuhdi Jasser. BUT his separation of political and religious Islam is NOT a accepted teaching of Islam. It is simply what he believes must happen for Islam to join the civilized world - and I agree wholeheartedly.

And Dr. Jasser has also testified many times that this separated Islam is NOT Islam in actuality, and that in the real world, politics and religion are tightly intertwined in Islamic teachings, leading to the radicalization of EVERY Muslim.


41 posted on 05/24/2014 6:35:11 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

This is simply not true with all Muslims, but with a minority of them who try to impose that upon all the others.

You already see that in the USA, where it’s not true with all Muslims and how they have organized themselves to fight against these other Muslims who are Islamists and Islamic Terrorists.

You’ll note that I’ve already referenced one such organization (of a whole group of Muslim organizations) who fight against this Political Islam, as perpetrated by the Islamists and Islamic Terrorists.

I also noted that Brigitte Gabriel and her organization of ACT! For America fully backs and supports Muslims like Dr. Zuhdi Jasser - even while at the same time Brigitte Gabriel fights against this Political Islam (and a great fighter she is!).


42 posted on 05/24/2014 6:37:03 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

You are directly reversing the truth. Openly anti-political/violence Muslims are almost unheard of, while ALL Muslims are regularly exposed to pro-Sharia, anti-West teachings. And there is no list of anti-political Muslim organizations. There are only sparse individual Muslim heroes speaking against the madness and risking their lives to do so. The truth about Islam is overwhelmingly bleak. Islam teaches people to lie, infiltrate, hate and kill - and that’s exactly what they are doing, and both Geet Wilder and Dr. Jasser have confirmed this many times.

And so have the murdered dead.


43 posted on 05/24/2014 8:27:49 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Talisker

I’ll get you the list of Muslim organizations that speak out against Political Islam, the Islamists and Islamic Terrorists. That will be later in the day tomorrow, though, as there are things for me to take care of now ... :-) ...

One other thing, though about Geert Wilders ... he has been directly quoted in many interviews over and over again, that he has no problems with Muslims in general and that he knows that the MAJORITY of Muslims in the West are peaceful and law-abiding. He has no problems with them.

There are so many interviews that he does saying that, it is no problem for anyone to find confirmation of it.

The problem he has is with the Islamists and Jihadists and Islamic Terrorists. He is NOT against all Muslims and not against the majority of them. He is against those of which he has identified as a minority, who try to enforce their views on all those others whom he says he has no problem with.

I’ll get back with those Muslim organizations, tomorrow.


44 posted on 05/24/2014 8:53:56 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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