Posted on 04/26/2014 7:58:44 PM PDT by BurningOak
Clarification: That’s one meal per day per person for 5 days.
Do you really think we’re supporting Ukraine in any area of their military? I don’t. Bare if that.
I have to say that the outcry from Ukranians on the street is sounding louder that US/Eu are not helping to ebb the violence and neither is Kiev Gov. It doesn’t matter what any might say otherwise...the people are seeing things from their perspective and that’s on the streets for the most part.
The ‘ONLY’ help from the US will be economic and political....to control those areas is so called “our war” with Russia...it’s not about the people on the streets. That’s simply containing them and curtailing as much violence as possible.
Western Ukraine will go with the EU and Eastern Southern favor Russia....but as republics of their own.
Either way the people are not what this is about...never was.
Олександр Аронець (Alexander Aronets in English)He is Svoboda party's spokesman..
https://www.facebook.com/olexandr.aronets/posts/722075684503637
Today someone shot Kernes. Akhmetov or any other local oligarch may become a target tomorrow. This is why it is vital for the rich and powerful of the Eastern Ukraine to finally realize that their physical survival depends on elimination of separatists in the Ukraine.
Сьогодні стріляли в Кернеса, завтра зможуть зробити те ж саме з Ахметовим, чи іншими місцевими олігархами. Саме тому еліті східних регіонів варто зрозуміти, що очищення України від сепаратистів - це питання їх фізичного виживання!
(Someone/something else translated his Ukrainian version message)
"Today shot at Kernes, tomorrow will do the same with Akhmetov, or other local oligarchs. That is why the elite eastern regions should understand that Ukraine cleaning of separatists - the matter of physical survival!"
I don't think the Oligarchs will worry much about being shot...most who feel a threat will simply leave Ukraine and enjoy vacation in another country, or remain on their huge yachts, (which is why they have them), til things cool down. .... And may even not return at all, no skin off their noses, the world is their stage, not any certain country. For them to travel the world is like us going to visit another state. No big deal for them...Further Oligarchs have no allegiance to any country....they go where the money is there for the taking and that is where their loyalty is at that moment.
Makes sense...it seems the Ukranians are still in a state of shock and don’t seem to know what to do.
We have a political-economic Oligarchy in the US now Imo...
They have institutionalized a body of law that protects businesses at the expense of not only the common people but the nation itself.
Businessmen have no loyalties. The Bank of International Settlements insures it, since it is not accountable to any national government.
Thomas Jefferson knew it when he wrote, ....”Merchants have no country”..........”The mere ‘spot’ they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gain.”
... Mayer Amschel Rothschild knew it when he said,.... “Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes the laws.”.....
William Henry Vanderbilt knew it when he said,..... “The public be damned.”
Businesses know it when they use every possible ruse to avoid paying taxes,.... they know it when they offshore jobs and production,.... they know it when the engage in war profiteering,.... and they know it when they take no sides in wars,.... caring not an iota who emerges victorious”
“...The facts are well with me....”
NOT the point, not by a long shot.
You can disagree with people all you want; being an ASS about it is another thing entirely.
You call someone a traitor, and know NOTHING about the man.
You’re new here. Learn some courtesy, and you’ll find you’re much more able to convince people that you may be right.
When you raise the “F*** You” flag, don’t be surprised when people respond in kind.
People have gotten kicked off this forum for being insulting to others. If you expect to stick around, learn a little courtesy.
Take it as friendly advice, or don’t. That’s up to you.
They’ve been knocked about a bit, for sure.
.....” These sheep who parrot Russian propaganda or expect us to take anti-American Alex Jones propaganda seriously can go stuff it”....
Well since you so often refer to Alex Jones as propaganda it would seem you’re certainly ‘more familiar with him then those of us who don’t read him at all?????
Most Freepers know enough to only give Jones a grain of salt....if that. I personally don’t follow or read his stuff though he was first on the ground to report on the Bundy ordeal....and for that one could hardly escape his stuff until the MSM picked it up finally.
But you get a real load in your pants about Freepers who post anything which isn’t supportive of the US...and worse they would even consider hinting that Russia does have a place on the world stage.....even if we might not like it so.
Hey the oil still flows out of Russia, so it’s business as usual for leaders....and no nation is standing against Putin’s move....now what does that tell you?
Nations recognize the world today is hardwired among nations through oil and other resources.....you can’t just start firing away at war, especially for a welfare state as Ukraine is, which would be a drag on any taking it it on.
Why do you think Putin hasn’t gone in already? HE really doesn’t want to take on the East, they are poor and needy especially since Ukraine’s Gov basically ignored any areas whose population was largely Russian....even Crimea.
The reason Crimea struggles for a time is because it was in such rough state BEFORE the referendum. I really doubt Putin wants to take on anymore...he got what he wants for it’s Naval Bases.....Eastern Ukraine will be good enough if it goes republic...still tied to Kiev but overall runs it’s own area.
The Putinists, hopefully, don't have long then. You're jumping into this new. They've been quite vile all over the forum since this Ukrainian crisis started, even attacking other Freepers as liars, Obama lovers and the like. I suggest you check their post histories before calling foul on me.
Funny enough, the Russians depend on Ukrainian military manufacturing for their ICBMs and other advanced weapons. I suggest you back off with the "Russia has a place on the world stage" and "Ukraine is a welfare state" stuff. You're blowing your cover.
I don’t need a cover so once again you are posting assumptions you choose to defend your position with. That simply doesn’t work on me so you could save your breath with those insinuations.
Meanwhile, to address your statement on Ukraine’s manufacturing for Russia’s military there in East Ukraine....Russia can do it all without Eastern Ukraine if it had to...not impossible to move companies as is done often these days..... So that’s simply not enough to take on Ukraine and all it’s debt.
More than likely Eastern Ukraine will be neutral and work with Russia and EU as they’ve generally done...and that goes for all of Ukraine. The EU is not going to move further with Ukraine then it currently is doing by opening trade and loaning it money....and that will be only with officials placed by the US and Eu in order for it to function and remain in the guidelines the Eu has established necessary for those loans.
I know that Kiev Residents finally are getting it that the EU/ US are NOT going to war with Russia over Ukraine. The mission has been accomplished to “shake out” and create enough chaos so the need would be for a cry for help from outsiders.....that’s a done deal now.
All the rest is simply letting things play out on the ground as they will....but in the end the EU/US economic and political control in Kiev and Russia has Crimea outright.
Sorry you can’t see it but Russia will continue to be involved on the world stage as it is currently...what the Eu/Us have done is moved Putin to other profitable venues with Russia, Asia, and Iran to replace any loss from the EU....not to mention the other Middle Eastern nations.
As we’ve all seen the EU has dragged it’s feet on sanctions....and if you check these are simply temporary...6 months in some cases only. Some won’t even go into effect as it’s all just wind to satisfy those who are insisting ‘something’ be done.
I have attempted to inform you that the world is not as it was during the USSR days....rules have changed as has the manner in which “wars” are fought now. This has been an economic and political war in Ukraine. Both the EU/US and Russia have all gained by it.
Further Ukraine IS a welfare state....that’s just a fact.
“...You’re jumping into this new...”
I’ve been around here quite a bit longer than you, friend. And I’ve seen folks get booted. You don’t call someone a “traitor” just because their opinion is different than yours. You know nothing about that person.
“...The Putinists, hopefully, don’t have long then....”
Maybe, maybe not. But they’re entitled to THEIR opinions as well as you are. If they go into personal foul mode, the Admins WILL deal with them - and have done so.
“...I suggest you check their post histories before calling foul on me...”
I don’t have to. I’m talking to YOU right now, because what YOU said to another Freeper on a a specific thread that I was reading struck me as low.
Courtesy goes a long way. I didn’t take YOUR head off here, did I? That’s called courtesy.
This is a discussion forum. You WILL hear/read viewpoints that don’t agree with yours. And my point again, is that you may bring someone around to YOUR view easier if you convince them you are in fact right - rather than by calling them a “traitor”.
It’s friendly advice. Do as you will with it.
And my viewpoint is, that those who demonize the Ukrainian people, calling them Nazis, repeatedly describing what ocurred as a coup despite direct evidence to the contrary, apologizing for Kremlin violence or blaming such violence on the CIA or the Ukrainian people despite direct evidence, and who spout other Kremlin lies over and over again, are Anti-Americans and should be shunned by all right thinking conservatives.
Do as you will with this viewpoint.
“..those who demonize the Ukrainian people, calling them Nazis, ...”
As someone of Ukrainian ancestry myself, I understand. That is offensive to me as well.
But you keep missing my point.
All I will say, as a final comment to you is this: Your “about “ page is loaded with Biblical quotes. Practice what you preach.
“Turn the Other Cheek” so to speak, and lay off the name-calling, and you’ll find more Allies than you’ll know what to do with.
Otherwise, not so much.
Have a great day.
I appreciate the recommendation, but, in this case, their behavior is too outrageous to go all Mr. Rogers. I won't turn the other cheek. I'll flip the table and drive them out of the temple.
“..I won’t turn the other cheek. ..”
Well, then good luck to you.
The strong do what they can, the weak do what they must.
Depends on what you mean.
Lemberg was never, and will never, be Russian. Galicia and Lodomeria are where Europe ends - they should be in the Fourth Reich E.U.
Kiev? I'm not so sure. If I had to bet (which I don't), I would bet the Russian tanks will be greeted with flowers.
If Putin is smart, he will give Lemberg (Lwow) back to Poland and Koenigsberg back to Germany at the same time.
Tough titty! Just think if the Ukraine complained about Russian troops on in western Russia.
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