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Michigan Gov. Repeals Ban on Short-Barreled Rifles
Breitbart ^ | 30 Mar 2014 | AWR Hawkins

Posted on 03/31/2014 5:56:13 AM PDT by xzins

Last week Michigan Governor Rick Snyder (R) signed legislation repealing that state's ban on privately owned short-barreled rifles and shotguns.

Buyers of short-barreled rifles and shotguns still face extra scrutiny at the federal level via the National Firearms Act. This requires them to undergo a background check, "pay a $200 federal tax, and register these firearms with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives."

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2damendment; banglist; guns
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1 posted on 03/31/2014 5:56:13 AM PDT by xzins
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To: All

Self-preservation. Family preservation. Freedom preservation.

What about these is difficult to comprehend?

God gave me the right to defend self, family, and freedom, so the 2nd amendment is really not even part of the discussion.

However, it’s inspired that the Founders were wise enough to list it in their document as a protected freedom.


2 posted on 03/31/2014 5:56:34 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

The article doesn’t define short barreled. Would, for instance, a mossberg 500 fall into that category or are they talking about barrel lengths less than 18 inches?


3 posted on 03/31/2014 6:04:43 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: saganite
Why is it 16" for rifles and 18" for shotguns?

What about a rifled shotgun barrel?

4 posted on 03/31/2014 6:06:21 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2
What about a rifled shotgun barrel?

Do those exist? A shotgun is a smoothbore barreled longarm. I don't think I've ever seen a rifled shotgun barrel.

5 posted on 03/31/2014 6:11:50 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: rarestia

Yes. Used for shooting rifled slugs for big game, generally used in states or areas that disallow rifles.


6 posted on 03/31/2014 6:15:34 AM PDT by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: rarestia; Paladin2

There are rifled slug barrels for shotguns.


7 posted on 03/31/2014 6:16:43 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: rarestia

Yes, I own one. Fits my 870. Made by Hastings.


8 posted on 03/31/2014 6:18:07 AM PDT by QualityMan (Don't Tread on Me)
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To: saganite

I haven’t read the law. You’d think they’d define it in terms of inches, but a police state would prefer to leave it to the judgment of the observer. That way they’d have another law that most gun owners would always be in violation of.


9 posted on 03/31/2014 6:24:57 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: rarestia
There are saboted bullets in shotgun shells where the plastic sabot spins the bullet up using the barrel rifling.

All sorts of bullets available.


10 posted on 03/31/2014 6:25:42 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2
What about a rifled shotgun barrel?

A smooth bore is classified as a "shotgun" regardless of length, that is why all handgun barrels (aside from black powder, which are exempted) are all rifled. A smooth-bore pistol barrel is technically an illegal short-barreled shotgun.

A shotgun barrel is almost never rifled because a rifled barrel will spin the load of shot, and the centrifugal force will cause the shot pattern to go into a donut shape.

People who have tried shooting pigeons with .22 shot pellets will drive themselves crazy, because if the bird is at the point of aim, he will likely emerge unscathed.

Slugs may have rifled sabots which would cause the slug to spin down the barrel, but the barrel itself is smooth.

11 posted on 03/31/2014 6:32:33 AM PDT by Fido969 (What's sad is most)
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To: Paladin2

So many why’s and if’s in ATF enforcement. There is very little rational thought to the laws or enforcement.

Why is a smoothbore .410 with a 15” barrel illegal, while the Taurus Judge is legal?

Why do I need a class 3 to have a “concealable short-barrelled shotgun” if I already have a concealed weapons permit?

If pistols are more dangerous than rifles (which is inferred from how they are treated) then why is illegal to turn a pistol into a rifle?

If pistols are legal, why is it illegal to turn a rifle into a pistol?


12 posted on 03/31/2014 6:33:20 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: saganite

Loved that gun had matching his and her sets but sadly Galveston Bay claimed those.


13 posted on 03/31/2014 6:34:18 AM PDT by WilliamRobert (Obama so loves the poor he created millions more.)
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To: SampleMan

I want to know why I can’t fool around trying to protect my and my children’s hearing by fabricating homemade suppressors without gov’t interference.


14 posted on 03/31/2014 6:35:55 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Eagles6; rarestia

Yes, rifled shotgun barrels are not uncommon for slugs.

But the ATF still treats them as shotguns, at least if the bore is over .50. Note that with the .410 it is ATF Calvin Ball. Saw off a single shot .410 shotgun and go to Federal prison; however, you can purchase a brand new Taurus Judge pistol designed to shoot .410 shells.


15 posted on 03/31/2014 6:36:54 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: rarestia

“What about a rifled shotgun barrel?
Do those exist? A shotgun is a smoothbore barreled longarm. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rifled shotgun barrel.”

Yes, Virginia, they do. Of course, to be technical, a shotgun is no longer a shotgun once a rifled barrel is placed on it. If you get my drift.

Go to Remington.com and feast yer eyes on the deer barrels and such.


16 posted on 03/31/2014 6:37:51 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: Springman; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; madison10; ...
Never understood the prohibition of them in the first place.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Michigan legislative action thread
17 posted on 03/31/2014 6:40:41 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: xzins
Today starts the lawsuits brought against the State of Colorado by the County Sheriffs. The state law was so poor that Governor Chickenpooper had to get go to the AG three times to make up some clarification on the law. Three DIMocrats have lost their jobs though recall over this poor performance.
18 posted on 03/31/2014 6:40:48 AM PDT by mountainlion
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To: Noamie

0.73” rifles are apparently an issue.....


19 posted on 03/31/2014 6:44:22 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: xzins

A few other recent actions

House Bill 5092: Establish that open firearms carry is not “brandishing”
Passed 105 to 4 in the House on March 13, 2014, to define “brandishing” a firearm as “to point, wave about, or display in a threatening manner with the intent to induce fear.” Under current law “brandishing” is a misdemeanor punishable by up to 90 days in jail. See also House Bill 5091.
See Who Voted “Yes” and Who Voted “No” at http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=687502

House Bill 4155: Make government firearms ownership databases non-public information
Passed 81 to 28 in the House on March 13, 2014, to establish that state databases containing information on licenses issued to individuals to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols are confidential and not subject to disclosure under the state Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
See Who Voted “Yes” and Who Voted “No” at http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=687493

Senate Bill 610: Revise state ban on short-barreled rifles and shotguns
Passed 103 to 6 in the House on March 13, 2014, to revise a state ban on short-barreled rifles or shotguns to clarify that it bans guns that are banned under federal law, which exempts antiques and “curios and relics”.
See Who Voted “Yes” and Who Voted “No” at http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=687500

House Bill 5282: Allow deadly force to defend nuclear plants
Passed 37 to 0 in the Senate on March 25, 2014, to explicitly allow an officer providing security at a nuclear generating plant to use deadly force if he or she “honestly and reasonably believes (it) is necessary to prevent” a person from breaking in with the intent to inflict harm, engage in radiological sabotage or steal nuclear material. This would include immunity from lawsuits.
See Who Voted “Yes” and Who Voted “No” at http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=688339

House Bill 5420: Ban state and local agencies from participating in federal “metadata” collection
Introduced by Rep. Tom McMillin (R) on March 20, 2014, to prohibit state agencies, local governments and their employees from assisting or providing material support to a federal agency in collecting electronic data or metadata concerning any person, unless it is pursuant to a specific search or arrest warrant. The bill would also prohibit such information from being used in a criminal investigation or prosecution.
http://www.michiganvotes.org/Legislation.aspx?ID=163896

House Bill 4118: Require drug testing of welfare applicants
Passed 25 to 11 in the Senate on March 20, 2014, to require a one-year pilot program in at least three counties that would require drug testing of state welfare benefit recipients and applicants if an “empirical screening tool” indicates a reasonable suspicion of drug use. Benefits would be halted for six months if a person tests positive or refuses to take the test, with an exception for medical marijuana. If a welfare recipient who is a parent tests positive, the child would still be eligible for assistance, and a “protective payee” would be designated to receive the parent’s welfare money. The bill appropriates $500,000 for the pilot program.
See Who Voted “Yes” and Who Voted “No” at http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=687945

House Bill 4885: Cut tax on oil and gas from “enhanced recovery”
Passed 25 to 13 in the Senate on March 19, 2014, to reduce the “severance tax” or royalty paid to the state on oil and gas extracted from state land to 4 percent for hydrocarbons extracted using “enhanced recovery” technology, which injects carbon dioxide into wells to force out more product (this is different from hydraulic fracturing). The current tax ranges from 5.0 to 6.6 percent.
See Who Voted “Yes” and Who Voted “No” at http://www.michiganvotes.org/RollCall.aspx?ID=687838


20 posted on 03/31/2014 6:50:12 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Paladin2

“0.73” rifles are apparently an issue...”

I asked my wife. She said they are ok in our house.


21 posted on 03/31/2014 6:54:38 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: cripplecreek

Can’t say I disapprove of any of those. Thanks for posting them.


22 posted on 03/31/2014 6:55:28 AM PDT by madison10
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To: xzins

Loving this comeback kid.


23 posted on 03/31/2014 6:56:50 AM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: MarMema

The governors in Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, and Wisconsin aren’t perfect by any means, but they’ve been far better for their states than any democrat predecessor.


24 posted on 03/31/2014 7:01:50 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

25 posted on 03/31/2014 7:03:17 AM PDT by dontreadthis
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To: madison10

Have no fear, they still have plenty of time to do stupid crap too.


26 posted on 03/31/2014 7:12:47 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: xzins

So what’s the big deal with short-barreled rifles and shotguns? I don’t see how they’re inherently more dangerous to the user.


27 posted on 03/31/2014 7:14:37 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (The PASSING LANE is for PASSING, not DAWDLING)
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To: Paladin2

Why is it 16” for rifles and 18” for shotguns?


Tyrants go as far as they can go to infringe our rights without going too far.


28 posted on 03/31/2014 7:19:53 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Lose to Cruz - 2016!)
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To: SampleMan

Why is a smoothbore .410 with a 15” barrel illegal, while the Taurus Judge is legal?


A gun with a shoulder stock is different under the law than a pistol.

I can’t offer logic, but that’s the distinction under the law.

It’s illegal to put a shoulder stock onto most pistols for this reason, even though it makes them less concealable and shoot more accurately.


29 posted on 03/31/2014 7:21:44 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Lose to Cruz - 2016!)
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To: SampleMan

Yeah, or a single shot TC Contender with a .410 barrel.


30 posted on 03/31/2014 7:28:12 AM PDT by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: xzins

http://www.ammoland.com/2014/01/michigan-legalizing-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns/


31 posted on 03/31/2014 7:31:01 AM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: Atlas Sneezed
A gun with a shoulder stock is different under the law than a pistol.

Yes, but the distinction with the .410 pistols is the rifling. If you were to hone the bore smooth, it would be illegal.

So can you have a rifled 20ga pistol? No, because its greater than .50 inches, although that doesn't totally make since, as there is no distinction made between calibers that are "destructive devices" in a pistol versus a rifle.

And many of these aren't actually laws, but ATF distinctions.

32 posted on 03/31/2014 7:32:18 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: JoeProBono

After watching Hickok 45 shoot one of those, I don’t think I want to stress my wrists like that.


33 posted on 03/31/2014 7:34:19 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Fido969

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot43.htm

Nice photos


34 posted on 03/31/2014 7:38:11 AM PDT by TexasGator
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To: SampleMan

“If pistols are legal, why is it illegal to turn a rifle into a pistol?” Shhhh, I’ve built for myself an AR15 pistol which is legal in TN so long as the barrel stays under 12 inches.


35 posted on 03/31/2014 7:38:49 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: MHGinTN


36 posted on 03/31/2014 7:44:02 AM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: TexasGator

Seeing is believing.


37 posted on 03/31/2014 7:48:03 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: JoeProBono

I’m told that because of the grip being slanted on the 7.62 x 54R the stress on the wrist is not nearly as bad. There are shot barrels on shotguns with the sloped grip. My son has a couple and says the wrist deflection is much reduced.


38 posted on 03/31/2014 7:53:07 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: cripplecreek

Look at the mess liberalism made. All that to protect a clear and explicit right. Wow, we’re a long way off track.


39 posted on 03/31/2014 7:58:49 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; blackie; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
Score one for Michigan.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

40 posted on 03/31/2014 8:08:43 AM PDT by Joe Brower (The "American People" are no longer capable of self-governance.)
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To: saganite

I also want to know if the Mossberg 500 police version has been de-legitimized.

I’d guess VP Biden would approve of it for home protection.


41 posted on 03/31/2014 8:55:10 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: rarestia

Yes, for shooting the plastic sabots that contain a slug smaller than 12 gauge. I prefer rifled slugs that have grooves on the slug and should be fired in a smooth bore improved cylinder. I have a 20” Remington barrel for my 870 that is smooth bore with rifle sights and uses screw in chokes, the improved cylinder for rifled slugs, a full choke for turkey hunting and a rifled choke if I wanted to use sabots. The Improved cylinder is also best for 00 buck.


42 posted on 03/31/2014 9:36:30 AM PDT by duffee (NO poll tax, NO tax on firearms, ammunition or gun safes. NO gun free zones.)
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To: duffee

I’ve only ever used rifled slugs. The idea of a rifled shotgun barrel is strange to me. Would it not be, at that point, a rifle? That’s the very nature of the word: rifle/rifling. Would 00 or any pelletized shell gain an advantage through the rifling, or is it intended to be used solely with sabot rounds?

Learn something new everyday.


43 posted on 03/31/2014 9:45:23 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: xzins; et al

Any law repugnant to the Constitution is null and void.....


44 posted on 03/31/2014 10:25:52 AM PDT by S.O.S121.500 (Had Enough Yet ? ........................ Enforce the Bill of Rights ......... It's the LAW !!!)
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To: saganite

18” is the minimum length for ordinary shotgun barrels. 16” is the minimum length for ordinary rifle barrels. If you want to cut off one to a shorter length than those it requires pre-registration, background check and a $200 tax under the National Firearms Act of 1934. If they come from the FACTORY that way originally, then they are categorized as an “Any Other Weapon” and only require a $5.00 tax, plus registration and background check. All are “Class III” weapons, as are machine guns, and all are legal in Texas.


45 posted on 03/31/2014 10:47:27 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: saganite

NO on the Mossberg Model 500 “Persuader”. That is an ordinary gun, not an NFA Firearm.


46 posted on 03/31/2014 10:48:57 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: Paladin2

It is the arbitrary and capricious LAW. Ask some who worked for FDR in 1934. He also wanted to ban HANDGUNS!


47 posted on 03/31/2014 10:50:30 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: rarestia

There are rifled handguns that shoot shotgun shells. No legal smoothbore ones, though, except NFA weapons.


48 posted on 03/31/2014 10:51:46 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: xzins

It IS in inches.


49 posted on 03/31/2014 10:52:22 AM PDT by 2harddrive
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To: 2harddrive

Good


50 posted on 03/31/2014 10:54:12 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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