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A black box in your car? Some see a source of tax revenue
Los Angeles Times ^ | October 26, 2013 | By Evan Halper

Posted on 10/27/2013 5:45:21 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

WASHINGTON — As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.

The devices, which track every mile a motorist drives and transmit that information to bureaucrats, are at the center of a controversial attempt in Washington and state planning offices to overhaul the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agenda21; beseeingyou; bigbrother; biggovernment; control; illegalsearch; nardware; notaboutroads; nwo; oneparty; restrictmobility; rulingelite; taxandspend; taxfreedom; taxmasses; tollroads; un; unconstitutional; warrantless
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1 posted on 10/27/2013 5:45:21 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

It’s really getting closer to the time for pitchforks and torches.


2 posted on 10/27/2013 5:47:45 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Under the Democrats; the Lincoln Memorial is closed; but the southern border is open)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Just a waypoint on the road to total monitoring of every citizen, with the endpoint being embedded microchips for all.


3 posted on 10/27/2013 5:48:07 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

I live off HWY-20 in Northern Florida. It was virtually perfect with no patches or holes for its entire length. This year they tore up the entire thing and repaved it. Now, it is “improved” in that it looks newer. But there was nothing, and I mean NOTHING, wrong with it before. It had another 30 years left. Why did they repave it? Well, I’m guessing it was because money was available from the federal government to do so. I really don’t know of any roads bad enough to require repaving. Why are they busy doing it? I suspect it’s all these shovel ready jobs they were anxious to spend money on. Are there states that actually need the money and the repaving? Undoubtedly. I’d say almost any place up north.

If they have the money they will spend the money. It’s not about helping the public it’s about crony capitalism. Reagan was right. The public knows how to spend its own money. The government merely wastes it.


4 posted on 10/27/2013 5:51:19 AM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Bastards


5 posted on 10/27/2013 5:51:26 AM PDT by Old Yeller (Obama: A dark spot in this country's history.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

What’s wrong with building a tamper-proof odometer and making tampering with one a RICO-eligible felony with a minimum 10-year prison term?


6 posted on 10/27/2013 5:52:26 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

“a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.”
__________________________________________________
Oh, isn’t that so clever of the Commie overlords.
God only knows what it will be transmitting...maybe your conversations, too?


7 posted on 10/27/2013 5:52:30 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
oooooo

doubleplusgood idea.....

/sarc off

8 posted on 10/27/2013 6:19:01 AM PDT by eeriegeno (<p>)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Another source of revenue... how wonderful. At some point people will realize how right Laffer was.


9 posted on 10/27/2013 6:19:29 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

A little black box... With a little bigger grounded metal box over the transmitting part of the little black box.


10 posted on 10/27/2013 6:20:35 AM PDT by CPOSharky (Democrats must love the poor, they just keep making more and more of them.)
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To: Zhang Fei

“What’s wrong with building a tamper-proof odometer and making tampering with one a RICO-eligible felony with a minimum 10-year prison term?”

Well, I’m no fan of these little black boxes, GPS tracking, etc. however, right now hybrids and ev’s are not paying their fair share of road taxes which are paid at the pump on a per gallon purchased basis. Farmers and ranchers have dealt with this for decades by keeping logs of their use of non-road fuel. But, I doubt that you could trust the general public to be so trustworthy.


11 posted on 10/27/2013 6:20:40 AM PDT by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

There will be a many year period where we will pay this electronic road tax, tax at the pump and toll fees.


12 posted on 10/27/2013 6:21:10 AM PDT by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

How about they just go to hell for spending all the taxes intended for roads on pensions, salary increases, bonuses and gimme programs for their voter base. Then they can stick the black boxes up their arses.


13 posted on 10/27/2013 6:23:25 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (On the evening of 10/16/13, the ailing republican party breathed its last breath.)
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To: Gen.Blather

There’s a stretch of highway (I-435) that runs through Johnson County Kansas that is constantly being torn up and rebuilt but it is constantly in need of repair. It does have very heavy truck traffic. In some places the road is so bad it is a threat to safety. Many accidents in what we call the Olathe triangle.


14 posted on 10/27/2013 6:32:37 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat

After you’ve had the heat on low for a period of time you’ll be able to increase the cooking temperature almost to the point of boiling. The frog at this point will be too delirious to realize that the heat is increasing and will most likely not hop out of the pan.


15 posted on 10/27/2013 6:37:41 AM PDT by Junk Silver
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Progressive in is already doing it with that thing they plug in to your cig lighter, which I use to plug in my cell phone for charging when on the go, these newer units EAT battery!


16 posted on 10/27/2013 6:39:42 AM PDT by GailA (THOSE WHO DON'T KEEP PROMISES TO THE MILITARY, WON'T KEEP THEM TO U!)
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To: Zhang Fei
What’s wrong with building a tamper-proof odometer and making tampering with one a RICO-eligible felony with a minimum 10-year prison term?

OOH, better still make it a mandatory death penalty

17 posted on 10/27/2013 6:40:39 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

What they really want to do is plant a chip in your neck that measures the air you breathe so they can tax that too.

In Maryland we pay taxes at the pump to build and maintain roads, but our Governor spends the road money on Stadiums, and casa De Maryland, and his homosexual agenda.


18 posted on 10/27/2013 6:41:34 AM PDT by Venturer (Keep Obama and you aint seen nothing yet.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.

There already is a mileage tax. There are federal and state taxes attached to every gallon of gas you purchase and these taxes were at the federal level and among the various states for the purpose of raising revenue for roads and highways - although it's mostly raided to redistribute to the eaters.

The black box isn't about revenue so much as it is about tracking and control.

19 posted on 10/27/2013 6:45:35 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Imagine:

There’s a country that needs to know absolutely everywhere you’ve ever driven but has no probem with you owning the guns.

How likely does that strike you? Is that plausible..?


20 posted on 10/27/2013 6:45:51 AM PDT by gaijin
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To: Gen.Blather

Yeah thats how it goes. Several miles of decent road repaved, when a half mile of potholes go untouched.


21 posted on 10/27/2013 6:48:53 AM PDT by Crazieman (Are you naive enough to think VOTING will fix this entrenched system?)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

My take on this is that a bunch of bright young things will soon figure out several ways to hack it, complete with how-to videos on YouTube. Then the Overlords will making hacking it against the law (if they haven’t already). Then the Overlords will have to arrest EVERYONE with a car. This could be interesting.


22 posted on 10/27/2013 6:50:36 AM PDT by La Lydia
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

About 90% of the new vehicles today have a ‘event data recorder’ installed.
But most states could get the same data when vehicle registration is done
by obtaining an odometer reading. Granted that data wouldn’t give you as much
detail as could be obtained via a black box.


23 posted on 10/27/2013 6:51:54 AM PDT by deport
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To: Zhang Fei

Not RICO, but what you describe is already a felony, and has been for a long time.

See 49 U.S.C. § 32703(2)


24 posted on 10/27/2013 6:57:29 AM PDT by Fresh Wind (The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.)
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To: from occupied ga
OOH, better still make it a mandatory death penalty

Don't give them any ideas...

25 posted on 10/27/2013 6:59:14 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Fresh Wind
Not RICO, but what you describe is already a felony, and has been for a long time. See 49 U.S.C. § 32703(2)

The RICO aspect was meant to force the disgorgement of any ill-gotten gains from guys who might have a side business "adjusting" odometers.

26 posted on 10/27/2013 7:01:01 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Just another reason to keep my ‘58 MGA running!

:-)


27 posted on 10/27/2013 7:13:52 AM PDT by Freeport (The proper application of high explosives will remove all obstacles.)
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To: Zhang Fei
I'm a progressive.

Trust me!


28 posted on 10/27/2013 7:17:45 AM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
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To: CPOSharky

Maybe we could get a slightly larger box with which to surround the feral gov’t?


29 posted on 10/27/2013 7:24:18 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: La Lydia
My take on this is that a bunch of bright young things will soon figure out several ways to hack it, complete with how-to videos on YouTube. 

A squirrel must have chewed the GPS cable.

Did the squirrel also solder a jumper wire from pin 6 on the GPS chip to ground?

Fortunately the NSA will have some people who aren't bugging Merkel to see if you viewed any of those videos.

30 posted on 10/27/2013 7:31:49 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Everyone get online for Obamacare on 10/1. Overload the system and crash it hard!)
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To: HereInTheHeartland
It’s really getting closer to the time for pitchforks and torches.

Way past time for that. Gallows are more in order.

31 posted on 10/27/2013 7:42:02 AM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal the 16th Amendment)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

There already is a tax on fuel, and the amount of fuel you use is related to the amount you drive.

But it’s hard to monitor personal travel profiles that way.


32 posted on 10/27/2013 7:49:31 AM PDT by Moltke (Sapere aude!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

Wherein all the money collected in road taxes, gas taxes and other fees has already been wasted through corruption, mismanagement and outright theft has been exhausted I guess.

Tar, feathers, pitchforks and creosoted rails needed stat!

33 posted on 10/27/2013 8:06:54 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Government will treat a GPS position recording device in your car as a honeypot of information that it will give itself permission to access any time it wants. This has exact parallels to how government treated location data from cell phones which could have been implemented without destroying privacy, but it was implemented to make personal control of private information impossible.


34 posted on 10/27/2013 8:10:49 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Sirius Lee

The black box isn’t about revenue so much as it is about tracking and control.”

Texas pass legislation supporting the “black box”. Asked my Rep who is also my insurance agent why there was no stipulation as to who could access the info and for what purposes and he replied that I should contact the Feds as it was their law.

I have an older car and inquired as to how I could reduce my insurance expenses - the same agent/Rep told me I should get a “black box” installed in my car.

Conflict of interest? Nah. /s/


35 posted on 10/27/2013 8:31:59 AM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: snoringbear

My Father had a Dodge truck that he converted to use either propane or gas. To refill the 60 gal. propane tank he had to have a tax sticker, issued by the state, displayed on a window. Why can’t they use the same system for the hybrids and ev’s?


36 posted on 10/27/2013 8:32:32 AM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Don Corleone
the outdated system for funding America's major roads.

And the assertion that it's "outdated" is just spewed with no proof, and rarely challenged. The largest contributors to infrastructure wear spend the most on fuel and therefore pay the most in taxes. How is that "outdated", oh, there I go thinking again...darn me.
37 posted on 10/27/2013 8:40:23 AM PDT by BikerJoe
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

For decades we have had taxes on every gallon of gas sold that was supposed to go into a fund to maintain the highway system at all levels. But, like any and all form of cash collection, aka taxes, the funds collected were almost immediately spent on “better” projects.

I have a suggestion - how about seeing for six months were the gasoline taxes are really going. I don’t mean the new funds that are going to be collected but where the funds from this time two years ago went.

If they didn’t go to support the highway system find out where they went then close those fraudulently supported programs. ALL OF THEM! Then, when the special interest groups complain, including I am afraid to mention the public school systems, tax those who complain to support their projects.

Since the first great raid on the Social Security Funds under LBJ in the mid 1960s no tax dollar collected to fund a specific project has been safe. Before adding new taxes we need to stop the current madness. BTW - don’t expect Congress or state legislators to do this voluntarily - too many of them use these hijacked funds for their personal reelection process.


38 posted on 10/27/2013 8:48:15 AM PDT by Nip (BOHEICA and TANSTAAFL - both seem very appropriate today.)
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To: snoringbear

Charge them more for their tags. Texas did/does this with a “alternative fuel” registration if I am not mistaken.


39 posted on 10/27/2013 9:41:29 AM PDT by cableguymn (The founding fathers would be shooting by now..)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Where the Hell is all the gas tax revenue going to?

What about the money in Porkulus? All that money didn't go fix bridges and roads?

Folks, the highway funds system is a scam. States should pay for their own roads.

40 posted on 10/27/2013 9:45:56 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Governor Sarah Heath Palin for President of the United States in 2016)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Never happen. As I've said for years, the only thing that will wake up the general population to fedgov largess is when it starts tracking peoples' free movements. This would definitely be the start of a revolution. Papers, please?

They can tax us all they want; but black boxes in cars? Ain't gonna happen in my day. Besides, some tech guy will come up with a way to circumvent such tracking devices, even if the manufacturers claim them tamper proof.

41 posted on 10/27/2013 9:50:58 AM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever!)
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To: snoringbear

The real problem that comes out of this will be the “fairness” issue. Some mile are not going to be the same as others - for instance doing 30 K miles in downtown Chicago wouldn’t be doing the same cost of wear as doing 30 K miles out in West Texas. Location tracking will inevitably come out of this idea and with location tracking, it will be possible to track any individual’s movements with all the behavioral analysis that will follow.


42 posted on 10/27/2013 9:59:27 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
uh, doesn't our odometer keep track of all the miles we drive?
43 posted on 10/27/2013 10:05:41 AM PDT by vigilante2 (Re-elect nobody)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
"to overhaul the outdated system for funding America's major roads"

Who says it is outdated? They are editorializing in a news story.
44 posted on 10/27/2013 10:06:05 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

BEATLES – TAX MAN
Let me tell you how it will be
There’s one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I’m the taxman, yeah, I’m the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don’t take it all
Cos I’m the taxman, yeah I’m the taxman

If you drive a car, I’ll tax the street
If you try to sit, I’ll tax your seat
If you get too cold I’ll tax the heat
If you take a walk, I’ll tax your feet

Taxman!
Cos I’m the taxman, yeah I’m the taxman

Don’t ask me what I want it for (Aahh Mr. Obama)
If you don’t want to pay some more (Aahh Ms. Jarrett)
Cos I’m the taxman, yeah, I’m the taxman

Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
Cos I’m the taxman, yeah, I’m the taxman

And you’re working for no one but me
Taxman!


45 posted on 10/27/2013 10:06:37 AM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was lost but now I'm found; blind but now I see.)
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To: Sirius Lee
The black box isn't about revenue so much as it is about tracking and control.

Raising the federal gas tax, as the article and many comments suggest, accomplishes the same objective without intruding on our lives.

The black box will eventually be mandated, however. All our comings and goings will be monitored in real time by GPS. It is a foregone conclusion.

Edward Snowden has proven that if any government possesses surveillance technology, then they will use it on their own people.

46 posted on 10/27/2013 10:12:54 AM PDT by Kennard
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To: Moltke

You are correct - the fuel tax does exactly what the black box would do in terms of imposing extra taxes on those who drive the most. But the fuel tax does not give the government any information about YOU, so it is “outdated.”


47 posted on 10/27/2013 10:12:57 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: glorgau

I think that one objective of this will be to penalize rural and suburban drivers because of WHERE they drive, not just how many miles they drive. In other words, in-city driving - regardless of miles driven - will be taxed at a lower rate than suburb-to-city driving. Something along those lines MUST be in the works, because simply raising the fuel tax would achieve the goal of taxing higher consumption.


48 posted on 10/27/2013 10:21:42 AM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
>>As America's road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system...<<

Americans need to rebel against further taxation. We are being taxed to death.

Municipal, county, state, federal entities are dipping into our pockets like never before. All said and done, around 50% of our income goes to some taxing bureaucracy.

The list of taxes/fees/levies are nothing short of breath taking. Take a look at the list in the link.

As the average pay for middle America stagnates, these taxes continue to grow.

http://whatistaxed.com/other_taxes.htm

49 posted on 10/27/2013 10:26:10 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

It is time for those of us in the rural areas (what the MSM refers to as fly-over country) to stop sending food to the cities. It obviously wastes too much energy and causes too much wear and tear on the roads.


50 posted on 10/27/2013 10:29:53 AM PDT by anonsquared
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