Posted on 08/30/2013 10:39:56 PM PDT by bimboeruption
It gets worse by the moment with what Popes may do.
http://www.mrc.org/bias-alerts/networks-jokingly-highlight-unhate-campaign-featuring-pope-gay-kiss
I spent time as a protocol officer within the Royal Australian Navy and the Australian Diplomatic Corps. We had to learn the rules on all these things.
The Pope is a Head of State as far as protocol is concerned. The Queen of Jordan is consort to a Head of State, and equal in rank to one under most circumstances. Generally, men are supposed to bow on meeting a Head of State, and women curtsey. If two Heads of State meet each other, neither would normally bow or curtsey to each other because they are of equal rank - but as a matter of good manner, a male Head of State will normally bow to a female Head of State. So the Pope’s actions are in line with normal protocols, if he did bow to the Queen of Jordan.
Catholic Heads of State may treat the Pope with respect and bow because he is the earthly Head of their Church, but that is a matter of preference.
People have asked about Americans - an American President is a Head of State, and therefore equal in diplomatic rank to any King, Queen, or Pontiff (arguably the Emperor of Japan might be allowed to claim a superior status to other monarchs, as the sole remaining Emperor, but they don’t) and therefore has to bow to nobody. US Presidents have chosen to bow to monarchs on occasion - President Reagan bowed to Queen Elizabeth II on one occasion, but again, this was a Gentleman showing respect to a Lady of equal rank.
It is important to understand that all these gestures are voluntary when it comes to foreigners, even where protocol expects them. Americans therefore do not have to bow or curtsey to anybody ‘of higher rank’ and it has been generally accepted in the diplomatic community for decades that if an American chooses not to do this, they are not intending to be rude, but merely following an American tradition which is as worthy of respect as any other tradition. But if they choose to do it, that is also their right.
Thanks for keeping the thread on target. I, for one, don't care how this woman looks or what earthly titles she may have accumulated. The bottom line is that she's an Islamist, a worshiper of an ignorant, illiterate, murderous pedophile. Thus, she's a servant of Satan and unworthy of any form of respect.
Neville Chamberlin bowed to Hitler. Churchill did not.
So the article is wrong, bowing to Muslim Queens is normal for Popes, according to you.
To: A CA Guy
You should give us the examples of the Popes bowing to Islam’s Queens so that we can challenge this article.
35 posted on 8/30/2013 11:17:43 PM by ansel12
Pope Benedict goes to the mosque and bows towards Mecca
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2006/12/pope-benedict-goes-to-mosque-and-bows.html
I believe bowing to a female Head of State is quite normal for a Pope, yes. Their religion is irrelevant.
So you don’t know at all, you are just guessing that the Pope bows to Muslim Queens.
I am saying that it is completely consistent with protocol for him to do so. So calling it a break with tradition as some of the press is doing seems unwarranted.
But in this case, it's a Islamist involved, an adherent to a murderous death cult seeking to destroy Christianity.
Evidently it is unusual, so far Francis has bowed to this Muslim Queen and the Catholic dictator of Zimbabwe.
So far it seems warranted, this is the only case of a Pope bowing to an Islamic Queen that we have found so far.
I’m not sure that’s a fair classification of Queen Rania, but even if it was, diplomatic protocol largely exists so people can have dialogues with those they may be in conflict with - you need it less with friends than you do with enemies.
How often do you think a Pope meets an Islamic Queen? There aren’t that many monarchies left anyway, and most of the Islamic Monarchies would not allow their Queen to meet a man unaccompanied.
This is about protocol - the media saying there is a breach of protocol. I have seen an image of Pope John Paul II bowing to Queen Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom. I’ve seen images of a Pope bowing to President Eisenhower - and Eisenhower bowing to him. I’ve seen photos of President George W. Bush bowing to a Pope. There’s nothing in protocol that says one Head of State may not bow to another - including Popes. I’ve also seen cases where Popes haven’t bowed - they’re not required to either.
Maybe you think the Pope should be rude to the Queen of Jordan. I think that would be silly. I would not want him to breach protocol by doing something excessive, but this isn’t excessive, nor unusual.
Your speculations and ideas of possibilities might entertain yourself, but they don’t interest me.
I have heard your personal opinion, but repeating it doesn’t make it any more than the speculation that it is.
It’s not speculation - it’s informed knowledge about diplomatic protocol. The fact that I used to have to understand these things for a living, and many journalists don’t seem to have to understand anything, makes me fairly confident I know what I am talking about. If you prefer to believe these journalists know what they are talking about, fair enough. They do get it right sometimes.
But controversy sells papers, and that makes money for them. And it’s not likely the average journalist cares about being accurate about the head of the largest single religious grouping on Earth.
Yes, I agree.
The leader of a church should never bow to anyone.
Be mutually respectful, of course.
A bow is an acknowledgement of superior status.
I will say that a mutual bow as is used in Japan can be seen as different, in that it is merely a salutation, a show of mutual respect or greeting.
Bowing as Obama does, or as the Pope seems to have done here, is an acknowledgement of coming into the presence of someone with superior authority.
At least that’s the way I read it.
OMG!! I am SICKENED and SHOCKED by that photo!!! REELING!!!
He understands he is only a flawed human - no real difference between him and the lowliest on the planet.
What's wrong with humility? God's humility is awesome and the reason He gave us free will. Without His humility, we would be automatons and He likely would have had no reason to create us.
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