Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Harvard gun study concludes gun bans donít reduce the murder rate
Hotair ^ | 08/28/2013 | BRUCE MCQUAIN

Posted on 08/28/2013 12:59:00 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

In fact, it appears, bans may actually see them increase. Here’s a summary of the study’s findings:

The Harvard study attempts to answer the question of whether or not banning firearms would reduce murders and suicides. Researchers looked at crime data from several European countries and found that countries with HIGHER gun ownership often had LOWER murder rates.

Russia, for example, enforces very strict gun control on its people, but its murder rate remains quite high. In fact, the murder rate in Russia is four times higher than in the “gun-ridden” United States, cites the study. ”Homicide results suggest that where guns are scarce other weapons are substituted in killings.” In other words, the elimination of guns does not eliminate murder, and in the case of gun-controlled Russia, murder rates are quite high.

The study revealed several European countries with significant gun ownership, like Norway, Finland, Germany and France – had remarkably low murder rates. Contrast that with Luxembourg, “where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, had a murder rate nine times higher than Germany in 2002.

The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world. ”Of course, it may be speculated that murder rates around the world would be higher if guns were more available. But there is simply no evidence to support this.”

And, as the study points out, where guns are banned, murderers still find weapons with which to do their dirty work. The difference is that the victims potential means of self-defense. With guns available, one would assume their deterrent effect if not outright effectiveness in the self-defense realm would predictably knock the murder rate down. Criminals and murderers are less likely to attack if the possibility the potential victim is armed exists. Common sense 101.

The study found no evidence to suggest that the availability of guns contributes to higher murder rates anywhere in the world. ”Of course, it may be speculated that murder rates around the world would be higher if guns were more available. But there is simply no evidence to support this.”

And finally:

Further, the report cited, “the determinants of murder and suicide are basic social, economic, and cultural factors, not the prevalence of some form of deadly mechanism.” Meaning, it’s not guns that kill people.

People kill people.

Well how about that? The study is published in Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy. You can read it here. Pass it around to your anti-gun friends. Point out this isn’t some right-wing think tank that pumped out the study. Then appeal to their common sense. Of course that may be difficult to do with someone who actually believes that the simple act of banning a weapon will magically lower the murder rate because without that weapon, people just wouldn’t murder each other … or something.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; guns; gunstudy; harvard; secondamendment

This Harvard study further corroborates the study made sometime back by John Lott Jr..


1 posted on 08/28/2013 12:59:01 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Maybe now that Harvard has confirmed it people will start believing it but you’re right that John Lott earlier has been making the case with compelling facts for years.


2 posted on 08/28/2013 1:00:55 PM PDT by AtlasStalled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AtlasStalled

Here’s the original paper for those who want to read it:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf


3 posted on 08/28/2013 1:01:34 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Good catch!


4 posted on 08/28/2013 1:01:46 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Fewer cops, less crime: MLive investigation finds Michigan safer even as police numbers decline

It takes a while for them to get around to it but they eventually note that just maybe all the guns might just be the reason.
5 posted on 08/28/2013 1:07:01 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Duh!


6 posted on 08/28/2013 1:07:59 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AtlasStalled

I’m sure someone is waiting in the wings to toss a “hockey stick” into the equation ala prof. mann.


7 posted on 08/28/2013 1:11:08 PM PDT by rktman (Inergalactic background checks? King hussein you're first up.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: AtlasStalled

More likely, the person at Harvard who did the study, will be sent to the reeducation camps for not being “progressive” enough or found to be no longer “useful”.


8 posted on 08/28/2013 1:16:18 PM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Earthdweller

Can’t you hear all those libtards chanting “get with the program, man!”


9 posted on 08/28/2013 1:18:36 PM PDT by AtlasStalled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: AtlasStalled

Neah. It will disappear down the memory hole with the CDC study that found the same thing.
Doesn’t fit “The Narrative.”


10 posted on 08/28/2013 1:19:19 PM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Speed of light:

186,000 mi/sec

How fast this story will be buried by the MSM:

186,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 mi/sec


11 posted on 08/28/2013 1:19:47 PM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (What do we want? Time travel. When do we want it? It's irrelevant.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

The MSM will bury this study


12 posted on 08/28/2013 1:20:17 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: AtlasStalled
No. There are still politicians who think that they need to “look busy” and pass a law, any law, when a tragedy happens and people who believe them when the critters promise that all problems will be solved if we just pass this new law.

BTW, I don't believe I have ever heard a politician promise that gun deaths will drop by x percentage if we pass this or that law. And if they do, no one immediately checks the cause and effect relationship and the statistics after the law is in place. And then holds the said politician accountable for their misrepresentation.

13 posted on 08/28/2013 1:23:35 PM PDT by dhs12345
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Irrelevant. Gun bans make liberals feel better about themselves. That’s all that matters (to the liberals)


14 posted on 08/28/2013 1:25:34 PM PDT by Personal Responsibility (Government: Slimy used car salesmen writing laws forcing you to buy their cars)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Asymmetric gun bans don’t reduce crime. Disarming the law-abiding while leaving the criminals armed is going to increase crime.

A gun ban can reduce crime if it is done according to the “Singapore Solution” where any gun misuse (or sometimes possession) leads to brutal punishment, and crimes of force are treated severely. But if you go that route, you’d better hope that the government stays benevolent, because the populace is completely defenseless.

The 2A balances the two considerations of self-defense against criminals and self-defense against government.

Liberals are stupid on this.


15 posted on 08/28/2013 1:27:44 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Meaning, it’s not guns that kill people. People kill people.

Whenever the conversation turns to "gun violence" I mention "car violence". Some liberal will ask me what I'm talking about, and I tell them, if guns kill people, then so do cars, so it should be called "car violence", not "accidents".

The liberals all blink in their mis-comprehension.

16 posted on 08/28/2013 1:27:47 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Little Ray

You’re right. Anytime facts stand in the way of their agenda liberals just ignore them.


17 posted on 08/28/2013 1:32:13 PM PDT by AtlasStalled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

A well-armed society is a polite society. It’s the CODE OF THE WEST. And we knew that.


18 posted on 08/28/2013 1:32:24 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Harvard gun study concludes gun bans don’t reduce the murder rate

Yeah, but gun bans increase the injustice rate. So the left will still be all for them.

19 posted on 08/28/2013 1:32:47 PM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AtlasStalled

I do know that after imposing numerous stupid, ineffective ant-gun laws up there, our neighbor to the north is sometimes referred to as CanaDUH!!


20 posted on 08/28/2013 1:33:21 PM PDT by 2harddrive
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I’d like to see that chart correlate violent crimes with CCW licenses.


21 posted on 08/28/2013 1:50:44 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jeffc

Finish your point, please. You totally neglected ‘baseball bat violence’, shoe/boot violence, golf club violence, human fist violence, telephone cord violence, lamp cord violence, bicycle violence and probably about 20 more minutes typing things frequently used to injure a fellow human.
I simply MUST mention the Alfred Hitchcock wife who brained her husband with a frozen leg of lamb, and then cooked the murder weapon and made lunch for the cops.


22 posted on 08/28/2013 1:57:08 PM PDT by CaptainAmiigaf (NY TIMES: We print the news as it fits our views.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Don’t look for this story in the mainstream press; it won’t deter anti-gunner rhetoric in the slightest.

Reality never does.


23 posted on 08/28/2013 2:17:58 PM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
The CDC also did a similar study, at the President's behest.

I am impressed with this organization on a daily basis, and once again, the CDC did not waver. They stuck to hard scientific principles and reported results that went counter to anti-gunner desired outcomes. HOOAH for them.

24 posted on 08/28/2013 2:22:08 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Of all the guns in America I have never Never seen a gun commit a crime. The stupid things just sit there doing nothing. All of them just sit there minding their own business most just lay around collecting dust.

Show me a study that a gun ever did anything.

Like you can’t get to the moon on fractions, it takes whole numbers!


25 posted on 08/28/2013 2:23:13 PM PDT by Southern by Grace (kickbacks, bribes, maifia payoffs is how the D's get R' done!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Study? What study? I don gotta show you no stinkin’ study.


26 posted on 08/28/2013 2:24:40 PM PDT by PapaNew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

If you ban young black males from owning/operating guns, for sure that will substantially reduce gun violence. Study that!


27 posted on 08/28/2013 3:06:13 PM PDT by sagar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Don’t try to confuse these people with facts.


28 posted on 08/28/2013 3:35:43 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (When you vote for evil because you can't see evil, you ARE evil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz

RE: The CDC also did a similar study, at the President’s behest.

The CDC? CDC?

Why them? Are guns considered a disease to be controlled now?


29 posted on 08/28/2013 3:41:50 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: sagar

Many of those young black males are already banned from having guns, either by age or prior criminal convictions. That banning doesn’t seem to slow them down any more than I think that any new bans would. Criminals will break new laws just as quickly as they break existing ones.


30 posted on 08/28/2013 3:46:27 PM PDT by Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Grampa Dave
In 1881 a left wing radical Democrat shot James Garfield, President of the United States who later died from the wound.

Whatever he was, Guiteau wasn't a Democrat. His words on shooting Garfield, "I am a Stalwart of the Stalwarts. .. Arthur is president now!" identify him as a Republican. But he was a lunatic more than anything else.

32 posted on 08/28/2013 4:44:59 PM PDT by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: All

Please Help To Keep The
"Conservative News and Views"
on FR coming by "Clicking Here"!!

Sponsoring FReepers are contributing
$10 Each time a New Monthly Donor signs up!
Get more bang for your FR buck!
Click Here To Sign Up Now!


33 posted on 08/28/2013 4:47:39 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: x

Thanks, I have removed Guiteau from the list.


34 posted on 08/28/2013 5:04:08 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obozoliar and his thugs in his outhouse lie 24/7/365. They are unable to tell the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Meanwhile in CT, a suspected bank robber fired shots outside a MetroNorth train station, despite Mallofs new gun control laws.


35 posted on 08/28/2013 5:06:25 PM PDT by matt04
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Edited and revised:

In 1863 a Democrat shot and killed Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States .
In 1963 a radical left wing communist shot and killed John F. Kennedy, President of the United States.
In 1975 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at Gerald Ford, President of the United States.
In 1983 a registered Democrat shot and wounded Ronald Reagan.
In 1984 James Huberty a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 22 people in a McDonalds restaurant.
In 1986 Patrick Sherril a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 15 people in an Oklahoma post office.
In 1990 James Pough a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 10 people at a GMAC office.
In 1991 George Hennard a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 23 people in a Lubys cafeteria.
In 1995 James Daniel Simpson a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 5 coworkers in a Texas laboratory.
In 1999 Larry Asbrook a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 8 people at a church service.
In 2001 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at the White House in a failed attempt to kill George W. Bush, President of the US.
In 2003 Douglas Williams a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 7 people at a Lockheed Martin plant.
In 2007 a registered Democrat named Seung - Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people in Virginia Tech .
In 2010 a mentally ill registered Democrat named Jared Lee Loughner shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and killed 6 others.
In 2011 a registered Democrat named James Holmes went into a Colorado movie theater and shot and killed 12 people.
In 2012 Andrew Engeldinger a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 7 people in Minneapolis.

One could go on, but you get the point, even if the media does not.

Clearly, there is a problem with Democrats and guns.

No NRA member, Tea Party member, or Republican conservatives are/were involved.

SOLUTION: It should be illegal for Democrats to own guns.


36 posted on 08/28/2013 5:15:34 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obozoliar and his thugs in his outhouse lie 24/7/365. They are unable to tell the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
I know the CDC very well, I serve them directly. There is a Violence Prevention group and even an Injury Prevention group. Toxic chemical spills are tracked. Newborn infants are screened worldwide at birth. The CDC does a lot more than just disease.

The point of my post is they were intellectually honest in the firearms study. They were probably under a lot of pressure to emit a study that wasn't intellectually honest, but the people I know and work around -- no matter their political affiliations -- believe in hard science and in facts, politics be damned. I don't know the people who did this study, but I was delighted to see they were of the same moral character as the ones I do know.

That's the point I was trying to make. The President had an agenda, and the CDC simply reported facts instead of following an agenda. Because of that, I remain proud to be associated with them.

37 posted on 08/28/2013 5:28:42 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind; JohnRLott; Travis McGee; Joe Brower
Bump & a BANG!
38 posted on 08/28/2013 5:39:11 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
Clearly, there is a problem with Democrats and guns.

This agrees with liberalism being a mental disease. These mentals kill people.

39 posted on 08/28/2013 6:24:25 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Bob

What I meant was not to keep the status quo in terms of enforcement. If action has to be performed, it better be to prevent young black males from using guns. Preventing the rest of the population is not going to solve “gun” violence. It is a “young black male” violence that needs to be solved.


40 posted on 08/28/2013 7:42:48 PM PDT by sagar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave

Wasn’t Lincoln killed in 1865?

BigBlockk

Later.....


41 posted on 08/28/2013 7:46:10 PM PDT by BigBlockk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Garen J Wintemute was deeply saddened.


42 posted on 08/28/2013 7:50:37 PM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sagar

I agree 100%. Using ‘gun control’ laws won’t solve the real problem.


43 posted on 08/28/2013 8:08:26 PM PDT by Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
whether or not banning firearms would reduce murders and suicides.

It is pretty simple math... when you take guns away from law abiding folks, only the bad guys have the guns. And now they can use the guns without fear of the consequences.

44 posted on 08/29/2013 4:52:04 AM PDT by John123 (US$ - I owe you nothing. Euro - Who owes you nothing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BigBlockk

Thanks.

BOL! I wonder if this list was proof read by Harvard profs?


45 posted on 08/29/2013 7:25:59 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obozoliar and his thugs in his outhouse lie 24/7/365. They are unable to tell the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: BigBlockk

In 1865 a Democrat shot and killed Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States .
In 1963 a radical left wing communist shot and killed John F. Kennedy, President of the United States.
In 1975 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at Gerald Ford, President of the United States.
In 1983 a registered Democrat shot and wounded Ronald Reagan.
In 1984 James Huberty a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 22 people in a McDonalds restaurant.
In 1986 Patrick Sherril a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 15 people in an Oklahoma post office.
In 1990 James Pough a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 10 people at a GMAC office.
In 1991 George Hennard a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 23 people in a Lubys cafeteria.
In 1995 James Daniel Simpson a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 5 coworkers in a Texas laboratory.
In 1999 Larry Asbrook a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 8 people at a church service.
In 2001 a left wing radical Democrat fired shots at the White House in a failed attempt to kill George W. Bush, President of the US.
In 2003 Douglas Williams a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 7 people at a Lockheed Martin plant.
In 2007 a registered Democrat named Seung - Hui Cho shot and killed 32 people in Virginia Tech .
In 2010 a mentally ill registered Democrat named Jared Lee Loughner shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and killed 6 others.
In 2011 a registered Democrat named James Holmes went into a Colorado movie theater and shot and killed 12 people.
In 2012 Andrew Engeldinger a disgruntled Democrat shot and killed 7 people in Minneapolis.

One could go on, but you get the point, even if the media does not.

Clearly, there is a problem with Democrats and guns.

No NRA members, Tea Party members, or Republican conservatives are/were involved.

SOLUTION: It should be illegal for Democrats to own guns.


46 posted on 08/29/2013 7:29:20 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obozoliar and his thugs in his outhouse lie 24/7/365. They are unable to tell the truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: cherokee1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQT2wRczmPQ


47 posted on 08/29/2013 7:53:08 PM PDT by RipSawyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson