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NSA, DEA, IRS Lie About Fact That Americans Are Routinely Spied On By Our Government
Forbes ^ | Aug 14, 2013 | By Jennifer Stisa Granick and Christopher Jon Sprigman

Posted on 08/15/2013 10:21:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson

Full title:

NSA, DEA, IRS Lie About Fact That Americans Are Routinely Spied On By Our Government: Time For A Special Prosecutor

It seems that every day brings a new revelation about the scope of the NSA’s heretofore secret warrantless mass surveillance programs. And as we learn more, the picture becomes increasingly alarming. Last week we discovered that the NSA shares information with a division of the Drug Enforcement Agency called the Special Operations Division (SOD). The DEA uses the information in drug investigations. But it also gives NSA data out to other agencies – in particular, the Internal Revenue Service, which, as you might imagine, is always looking for information on tax cheats.

The Obama Administration repeatedly has assured us that the NSA does not collect the private information of ordinary Americans. Those statements simply are not true. We now know that the agency regularly intercepts and inspects Americans’ phone calls, emails, and other communications, and it shares this information with other federal agencies that use it to investigate drug trafficking and tax evasion. Worse, DEA and IRS agents are told to lie to judges and defense attorneys about their use of NSA data, and about the very existence of the SOD, and to make up stories about how these investigations started so that no one will know information is coming from the NSA’s top secret surveillance programs.

“Now, wait a minute,” you might be saying. “How does a foreign intelligence agency which supposedly is looking for terrorists and only targets non-U.S. persons get ahold of information useful in IRS investigations of American tax cheats?” To answer that question, let’s review this week’s revelations.

(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: backoffnsa; benghazi; bhofascism; bloodoftyrants; communism; corruption; criminalgovernment; criminalpresident; dea; deajackboots; democrats; dontspyonme; donttreadonme; fastandfurious; fraud; govtabuse; hemisphereproject; highcrimes; hopeychangey; impeachnow; irs; irsbrownshirts; irsrico; lie; lie2america; lie2congress; lielielie; nazistate; nsa; nsarico; obama; obamarico; obamavoters; policestate; rule308; scandal; scandals; sod; spying; treason; tyranny; unconstitutional; waronliberty; yeswescan
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1 posted on 08/15/2013 10:21:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

2 posted on 08/15/2013 10:23:29 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Jim Robinson; All


3 posted on 08/15/2013 10:26:13 AM PDT by Zakeet (Democrats: Making everything free in this country except you)
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To: Jim Robinson
Time For A Special Prosecutor

Get one from Texas.

4 posted on 08/15/2013 10:27:29 AM PDT by shove_it (long ago Orwell and Rand warned us about 0bama's America)
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To: Jim Robinson

I haven’t forgotten that there were people who called me a nutjob conspiracy theorist for saying that drones would one day be used over American soil.

Now those same people tell us that its for our own good.


5 posted on 08/15/2013 10:27:53 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Jim Robinson

6 posted on 08/15/2013 10:30:56 AM PDT by SparkyBass
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To: Jim Robinson


7 posted on 08/15/2013 10:34:40 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Jim Robinson
in particular, the Internal Revenue Service, which, as you might imagine, is always looking for information on tax cheats.

Yeah, tax cheats. Just tax cheats. It has absolutely no interest in the politically troublesome. Just tax cheats.

8 posted on 08/15/2013 10:40:44 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (This message has been recorded but not approved by Obama's StasiNet. Read it at your peril.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

9 posted on 08/15/2013 10:43:21 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: SparkyBass

Snoop Proggy Prog


10 posted on 08/15/2013 10:44:03 AM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Jim Robinson

LOTSA spinny gobbeldy gook that in not based on facts, eg case example, but authors aganda, IMHO

Directed to omit SODs involvement... a little doggy but the key aspect revolves around the alleged creation of an investigative file. In essence if they are handed a case and the information cannot be verified through an investigation without SOD data, the case is dead. Also IRS SAs only rarely take the stand as they are not witnesses to the data and testimony that make the case. AUSAs deal with the Defense Attorneys. SAs do not unless one shows up at a meeting and the Agents are there to “ASK the questions, not to answer them”

THE ARTICLE NEEDS FACTS. BTW anyone, including a manager who attempts to interfere in a case can be investigated for interference with a Federal Investigation. AND no one I know would ever take the stand and lie, I think it is called perjury. If you have a spouse and kids, the job does not pay enough to go to jail.

NEEDS A LOT MORE DATA TO REFLECT ON THE IRS SPECIAL AGENTS.


11 posted on 08/15/2013 10:44:08 AM PDT by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue. We need the Tea Party)
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To: shove_it

Well, can’t argue that point.


12 posted on 08/15/2013 11:02:01 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Jim Robinson

We will soon see a wave of off-shore encrypted replacements for things like traditional email, chat, P2P and Facebook.

What will really send the shivers up the NSA’s spine will be the fact that they will almost certainly use elliptic curve public key encryption (ECC) This is the encryption used by Russia to secure their most sensitive stuff. It’s also what the NSA uses internally.

Diffie-Hellman/RSA is no longer acceptable by either Russia or the NSA for the most sensitive data. Work has been progressing on new algorithms to attack the discrete logarithm problem...that’s the problem that makes it hard to break current public-key crypto.

Just as the NSA is getting their hopes up for a breakthrough algorithm to attack Diffie-Hellman/RSA everyone with brains will move to ECC.

The reason the new ECC services will pop up overseas is the fact that Certicom (The Blackberry people) holds patents on ECC. I wonder if the NSA is paying them to make it so costly to use ECC that developers stick with Diffie-Hellman?

Cloud computing providers are in a big slump right now because of revelations about NSA snooping. Look for this lucrative business to also move elsewhere soon and utilize ECC.

What people are beginning to demand are data systems where they alone hold the keys and no telltale data is on servers anywhere...or at least not anywhere in the jurisdiction of US authorities as they are no longer trustworthy.

I expect other shoes to drop soon that will destroy confidence in commercial operating systems like windows.
IMO we will see a move to Linux by most people concerned about data security. Zorin Linux and Linux Mint are good distros for beginners as they are nearly as easy to use as Windows even for total newbies.

A good, open-source, full-disk encryption tool is a wise choice if you are determined to protect your data.

Don’t depend totally upon the firewall built into your cable/DSL router to keep the bad guys out! It would be incredibly easy to place a back-door in these routers.
I could do it so I know a lot of others could. I’d place the back-door in the hardware not the firmware.


13 posted on 08/15/2013 11:02:44 AM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Tuketu
>>gobbeldy gook<<

Gook? Who you callin gook....that's racist. Eric...over here....Mr. Holder...over here, we have an ornamental hater over here.

14 posted on 08/15/2013 11:05:01 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Tuketu
BTW I am not attempting to defend Obama and the Admin whom I believe are Marxist if nothing else. 6 Muzzy and three Commies for Czars...

As far as lies, the Admin stated there were two political appointees in IRS. A little dodgy. Lois Lerner was a political appointee, I believe, at the Federal Elections Commission. The IRS EPEO targets were coordinated with the FEC. Since the two entities (US TREASURY and FEC) do not regularly communicate and as Lerner was rewarded with full pay on her suspension, the door goes to the White House.

The reorganization at IRS that permitted how many more (?) political appointments was begun / implemented under the CLINTOONS. When authorized by Congress? The structure now resembles the corrupt organizational structure terminated 1952 / 1953. IT WAS DONE ON PURPOSE. IT DID NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT

How long before Congress and the media and many just post “feelings” people here will wake up to the fact that this just isn't Obama. It is a Democrat Party shot at being a one party country ala Nazis/ Commies.

The July 3 2013 Obama Care putsch lead to contracts being awarded. How many were DEM CONTRIBUTORS. That is where they Dems will fund their party from. As Earl Butts would say “Wake up America.”

15 posted on 08/15/2013 11:09:46 AM PDT by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue. The Tea Party is the solvent)
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To: servantboy777

LOL I needed that


16 posted on 08/15/2013 11:10:50 AM PDT by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue. The Tea Party is the solvent)
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To: Jim Robinson; Travis McGee
WAIT, WAIT, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT CONSERVATIVES ACROSS AMERICA WILL DO ABOUT THIS!!

Absolutely nothing...

17 posted on 08/15/2013 11:12:33 AM PDT by Old Sarge (Opinions are like orgasms: only mine count, and I couldn't care less if you have one...)
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To: Tuketu

Been saying it a while now...

...all of this is bigger than 0bama...

impeaching 0bama ain’t gonna get the job done.


18 posted on 08/15/2013 11:15:09 AM PDT by EBH (The 'silent majority' is just as responsible for where this country is today as the screaming mob)
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To: Bobalu

Jim you are a good guy and thanks for this forum. If I may suggest, I doubt that there isn’t any thing NSA cannot decrypt. Also the Cyber Command was well under way before it was announced. Just my opinion but always go low tech. Why” It draws less attention. The boys are looking into more sophisticated technology and they tend to forget the old stuff. encryption or other wise. They will not spend the money to break the emails of the ordinary Joe. IF you are low tech you have a good chance at being overlooked.

JMO


19 posted on 08/15/2013 11:18:20 AM PDT by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue. The Tea Party is the solvent)
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To: EBH
I couldn't agree more. At least some of us get the big picture. Impeaching the SOB is a good start though. Hopefully that will clear the way to really check to see if he is an American. Some people disagree with me, but I say that the idiot Biden isn't smart enough to really screw the country and if O is out, perhaps the Supreme Ct may judge that anything O did isn't valid. Then if we leave the economy alone for 20 years with a stable AMERICAN population, we may dig out of the economic mess.
20 posted on 08/15/2013 11:23:15 AM PDT by Tuketu (The Dim Platform is splinters bound by crazy glue. The Tea Party is the solvent)
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To: Jim Robinson


MACHO MACHO MAN


21 posted on 08/15/2013 11:28:04 AM PDT by devolve (----- ----- ----- it not unlegal iffen I do`s it ----- ----- -----)
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To: Jim Robinson


Obama: "We Don't Have A Domestic Spying Program"

Guess what. He lied. Again.

22 posted on 08/15/2013 12:09:39 PM PDT by McGruff (I need a new party.)
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To: bamahead; SunkenCiv

Ping


23 posted on 08/15/2013 12:10:24 PM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Old Sarge
WAIT, WAIT, I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT CONSERVATIVES ACROSS AMERICA WILL DO ABOUT THIS!!

Absolutely nothing...

Wait, wait. I think you're getting confused here: the conservatives want to conserve, that is keep things the same, the statist machinery, the republicans are those that do nothing.

Yes, it is a distinction without a difference, but one that needs to be made.

;)

24 posted on 08/15/2013 12:18:19 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Tuketu

Not sure why my brain works like that, but hey, we gotta laugh at something with all the rotten news hittin us daily.

God bless


25 posted on 08/15/2013 1:05:16 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Jim Robinson
HAD ENOUGH YET AMERICA?


26 posted on 08/15/2013 2:05:52 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Jim Robinson
Finally, somebody said it.

IMHO, the only purpose for a facility as huge as the Utah Data Center was to store EVERYTHING, every phone call, email, and click of the mouse. The big lie is that taking possession of private communications is not a violation of the Fourth Amendment if nobody looks at the content. It is equivalent to raiding your home and copying all your files, and then claiming that it's not an illegal search.

The first thing that needs to happen is to cut those fiber optic links at the sources where they tap into major trunks. Then we'll talk about what kind of surveillance is appropriate for the purpose of interdicting international terrorism. Frankly, we could do a lot more by purging this country of Islamic nationals, which a bounty system could accomplish quite promptly.

27 posted on 08/15/2013 2:17:45 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
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To: Jim Robinson; Sidebar Moderator

Boss: I have a few articles on privacy tools that I don’t believe have been posted. A tad dated (couple months). Would you be willing to forebear a bit on the classification?


28 posted on 08/15/2013 2:30:10 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: Cheerio

Uh, you do realize that the DHS and the spying programs started under Bush, right?


29 posted on 08/15/2013 3:07:12 PM PDT by raybbr (I weep over my sons' future in this Godforsaken country.)
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To: raybbr

Trust me, it doesn’t matter : )


30 posted on 08/15/2013 3:22:15 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
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To: Old Sarge

Sarge, you have hit the nail square on the head. But by God we wlll damn sure post about it won't we?


31 posted on 08/15/2013 4:03:04 PM PDT by rhubarbk (It's official, I'm suffering from Obama fatigue!)
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To: Jim Robinson

And yet Republican “leaders” (like Lindsay Graham, Peter King, et al) assure us that there’s nothing to see here - the NSA spying is necessary to catch terrorists.

If only these “leaders” would get on board with conservatives and fight this obvious NSA spying overreach, they would gain the support of independents, millenniums, and even many liberals. With that support Republicans would probably win the next three elections.

Instead these Republicans hem and haw and meanwhile more and more Democrats are grabbing this ball and running with it.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for Republicans to significantly expand their “big tent” and to prove that they stand for liberty and personal privacy. Instead, they show themselves to the wavering groups of non-Republican voters, who are right now seeking fighters on this issue, as petty supporters of big, corrupt government.


32 posted on 08/15/2013 4:12:41 PM PDT by EarlyBird (This space for rent)
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To: cripplecreek

We really need a leader that will fight against this.


33 posted on 08/15/2013 4:16:44 PM PDT by BlueCat
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To: raybbr
Uh, you do realize that the DHS and the spying programs started under Bush, right?

I do realize that Bush pushed through the Patriot Act - remember how the left equaled about "warrentless wiretaps" - and he did in response to America's worst attack on the homeland. BUT in all fairness, listening in on AMERICA began long before Bush cam to power. Remember Echelon? Clipper?
34 posted on 08/15/2013 4:41:58 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Tuketu

Low tech? Yeah, been there, done that——the Washington geniuses still can’t really handle Hawaiian Pidgeon English. And that’s a bit of a rip on Navajo too. People who don’t want to be overheard just devise their own frames of reference, It’s possible to burn a lot of energy/time/hardware trying to keep simpleass things hidden.

Curiously the current conversation is touching on the NSA’s weak spot from the beginning. It has always been seriously illegal for the “listeners” to disclose anything they hear/read/see without a court order, etc. But if they happen to overhear something really dangerous or suspicious (in their mind) there has never been a way to keep them from dropping a postit in somebody’s mail box. It’s never been a problem except that now I fear Odumbo has worked his IRS “listeners” in to the NSA and misuse of the info for political reasons has to be concerning.


35 posted on 08/15/2013 5:14:06 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: rhubarbk

So I’ll be serious... What CAN we do about it?

I’ve written my representative and both senators. I’m in Alabama. Jeff Sessions wants a formal investigation with a special prosecutor. Richard Shelby doesn’t even bring it up, and my TEA party representative, Martha Roby, sent me back a blah-blah form letter absolutely void of a single thing I mentioned.

Bostonians in the late 1760’s were pissed... But didn’t do anything until Sam Adams came along.

Were is that man/men/woman/women for us?


36 posted on 08/15/2013 5:51:55 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: Jim Robinson

The US government is breaking our laws. In that sense, it has gone from being the servant of the People to become simply a massive criminal organization.


37 posted on 08/15/2013 7:10:01 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: Jim Robinson
Snowden is without a doubt a hero. They would still be denying every single thing for years until we all ended up in an electronic prison.
38 posted on 08/15/2013 8:48:56 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: EdReform; Abathar; Abcdefg; Abram; Abundy; albertp; Alexander Rubin; Allosaurs_r_us; amchugh; ...
This one is a MUST READ.



Libertarian ping! Click here to get added or here to be removed or post a message here!

39 posted on 08/15/2013 11:19:19 PM PDT by bamahead (Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master. -- Sallust)
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To: Carry_Okie
IMHO, the only purpose for a facility as huge as the Utah Data Center was to store EVERYTHING, every phone call, email, and click of the mouse. The big lie is that taking possession of private communications is not a violation of the Fourth Amendment if nobody looks at the content. It is equivalent to raiding your home and copying all your files, and then claiming that it's not an illegal search.

Others have come to the same conclusion. Such a huge data center can only have one purpose. To store all electronic communications within America and that are routed through America on their way from foreign location A to foreign location B. Also the NSA "campus" at Fort Mead Maryland is largely empty. Plenty of room for new buildings and affirmative action drones earning Fererale paychecks///// and they -NSA- are building at Ft Mead like crazy with all kinds of billions of taxpayer dollars and phony (created out of thin air) Federal Resrerve fiat money shoveled in their direction by stupid Senators and Representatives who due to national security concerns (preventing 911 type attacks) will approve all and any NSA funding demands. These Senators and Representatives (and their staffs) are too lazy and technologically illiterate to question NSA funding demands and sort out the legitimate from the illegitimate

It could be the NSA built in Utah (data center) only because they were reaching limits on how much electricity they could demand from DC area utilities to power this Godzilla sized data center. 

The average ipad using idiot has no idea now many megabytes (kilobytes) an audio file or photos will take up and whether it can be stored in smaller size via compression in NSA data centers

NSA mission creep is contractor driven. These contractors are ravenous for Federal money....don't forget that Edward Snowden was a NSA contractor employee. My opinion is 99% of the reason NSA is spying on and storing all Americans communications is simply due to NSA contractors wanting to earn billions and pressuring NSA bureaucrats to expand the NSA mission to internal spying which it never was.

That super dumbass Obama stooge James Clapper was formerly employed by NSA contractor Booze-Hamilton which also employed Snowden, NSA has a revolving door employment situation with its contractors. As usual, follow the $$$$ when it comes to understanding what goes on in Washington DC

MUST READ SCARY--- The Palantir corporation

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/agent-of-intelligence-how-a-deviant-philosopher-built-palantir-a-cia-funded-data-mining-juggernaut/

http://www.businessinsider.com/palantir-technologies-revealed-2011-3?op=1

40 posted on 08/16/2013 12:14:27 AM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: varyouga; Carry_Okie
Snowden is without a doubt a hero. They would still be denying every single thing for years until we all ended up in an electronic prison. 

Agreed!!!! The downside is traitors like Obama forced him to seek asylum in Russia where eventually all Snowden knows will be taken from him. But the NSA and its contractors love this!!! And maybe made sure this happened. Now they can earn more billions repairing this situation. That the Russians will soon know everything about NSA operations

 

41 posted on 08/16/2013 12:20:32 AM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Bobalu

Yup.

Fully agree.

I’m seriously thinking about dusting off my coding skills to help in the effort.

The net:net is that the whole of the US computing industry that knuckled under to the NSA needs to be severely punished with off-shore competition. The message needs to be sent that if they co-operate with the NSA, they lose money. Big money.


42 posted on 08/16/2013 1:33:26 AM PDT by NVDave
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To: Jim Robinson
Obama LIED, Freedom & Privacy DIED!
43 posted on 08/16/2013 4:06:49 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Travis McGee

44 posted on 08/16/2013 5:16:24 AM PDT by devolve (----- ----- ----- it not unlegal iffen I do`s it ----- ----- -----)
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To: Jim Robinson

What? a branch of the government lying? What a surprise.


45 posted on 08/16/2013 5:32:09 AM PDT by I want the USA back
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To: dennisw
Others have come to the same conclusion. Such a huge data center can only have one purpose. To store all electronic communications within America and that are routed through America on their way from foreign location A to foreign location B.

Period.

46 posted on 08/16/2013 6:08:30 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (Islam offers choices: convert, submit, or die.)
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To: Carry_Okie

I think you are saying is that spying on and storing communications.... The NSA is only interested in Americans for reasons Obama and his minions approve of. People outside America are of no interest to NSA. Which is the opposite of the NSA charter and which they obeyed until a few years ago.


47 posted on 08/16/2013 6:21:36 AM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: cripplecreek
I haven’t forgotten that there were people who called me a nutjob conspiracy theorist for saying that drones would one day be used over American soil.

Now those same people tell us that its for our own good.

What's the next horror citizens will be forced rationalize?

48 posted on 08/16/2013 6:59:24 AM PDT by GOPJ ( When the state knows all but difference between right and wrong, it won't end well--Steyn)
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To: EarlyBird

"And yet Republican “leaders” (like Lindsay Graham, Peter King, et al) assure us that there’s nothing to see here - the NSA spying is necessary to catch terrorists"

Yep. And who can forget Mr. Man of Ideas from NJ- a guy who thinks it's "dangerous" for people to be concerned about government spying and intimidation?

49 posted on 08/16/2013 7:10:00 AM PDT by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Folks might as well get used to all this. The gov-mint is going to do this regardless of what the people of this Republic say or any court says. But mostly the liberal courts are going to let the dimocrats do whatever they want to do. Nixon got run out of town on rails for what he did, and this criminal thug does worse and is put on a high pedestal and considered a god by the liberal media. This nation has been judged by God for our actions and this is the results. We have been given a president to do just what this nation turned into. America is not getting its punishment. Obama is our punishment. The actions of our government, the types of individuals in our government, our leadership, the media, Hollyweird, etc. These are what America turned into. We have been judged.


50 posted on 08/16/2013 10:44:17 AM PDT by RetiredArmy ("As in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of Man." Come Quickly LORD Jesus!)
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