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Pope: 'Who am I to judge' gay people?
NBC News ^ | 7/29/2013 | Anne Thompson and Henry Austin

Posted on 07/29/2013 7:07:04 AM PDT by IbJensen

Pope Francis on Monday said “who am I to judge?” gay people as he discussed one of the most divisive issues affecting the Catholic Church.

Pope Francis, who gave a press conference on his flight back from Brazil, said he had stayed away from the gay marriage debate on his trip because he wanted to stay positive.

“I have yet to find anyone who has a business card that says he is gay,” the pontiff said at a press conference in which he addressed the reports of a "gay lobby" within the Vatican.

“They say they exist. If someone is gay, who searches for the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge?” he added. "The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society."

Francis added that he thought lobbies of any kind -- including political ones -- were bad.

"The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem," he said.

The press conference, which lasted for an hour and 20 minutes, was held during the flight back from his week-long trip to Brazil.

The official position of the Catholic Church on the issue is that while homosexual desires or attractions are not in themselves sinful, the physical acts are.

All priests take a vow of celibacy when they become members of the clergy.

The pontiff went to Brazil on his first visit overseas since he was elected in March.

The Pope said he had stayed away from the issue of gay marriage and also abortion on his week-long trip to Brazil because he wanted to stay positive.

Francis discussed a range of issues during the press conference, admitting that the church had not done enough to develop “the theology of women in the church.”

He said that the church had spoken on the issue of women priests and expressed itself clearly on the issue of abortion, but he added that important female biblical figures had been overlooked.

"Mary is more important than the apostles," he said. "One must think about women in the church. We have not done enough theology on this."

History's first Latin American pope said he was "pretty tired" but with a happy heart after his first overseas trip.

He said he was amazed at the number of people who turned out to see him in Brazil, especially the three million who jammed Copacabana Beach for Sunday's Mass.

He added that he was unconcerned by the tumultuous start to the trip that included the discovery of a bomb at a shrine he visited and the mob scene that took place when his driver inadvertently made wrong turn.

"There's always the danger of a crazy person, but there is also the Lord," he said. "This being close is good for everyone."


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: homosexualagenda; homosexuals; popefrancis; sincondoned; whoisthepope
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To: IbJensen
Now. Back to the newly minted pope. How can one be living a good Christian life and seeking God's blessings and be sticking his pee-pee in another's poo-poo? As a priest, bishop, cardinal or pope it is my duty to denounce such evil behavior.

And therein lies the problem with today's new religion edicted by local bishops and ignored by the Vatican. No wonder the Church today is larded with scandals serious enough to get the perpetrator a millstone around his neck!

BINGO!

81 posted on 07/29/2013 9:11:59 AM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: Cronos
After all, hate the sin, not the sinner, right? And those who battle with the tendency but don’t act on it are to be sympathized with and prayed for

So...hate the murder and molestation but NOT the murder-er or molest-er??

Where is the chastisement of Jesus Christ, "GO AND SIN NO MORE."? Where??

82 posted on 07/29/2013 9:16:37 AM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: RummyChick

“there is controversy..because he is saying it’s okay to be gay...just not lobby”

Right you are.


83 posted on 07/29/2013 9:22:36 AM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: USS Johnston
The part of seeking that saves one soul is in FINDING the Lord, of which this Pontiff seems indifferent as not to "offend" anyone -- namely the homosexual lobby he claims doesn't exist.

In the direct translation (I posted it somewhere above), the Pope criticizes the homosexual lobby. He says: "One must distinguish between being gay, having this tendency, and lobbying."

For the record, I do not like the term "gay" being misused in that way, either. But, I think maybe the Pope just hasn't heard the United States conservative's argument against the misuse of this English word.

84 posted on 07/29/2013 9:23:42 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: IbJensen

First, let’s look at what John Paul the Great said about
women being ordained. No matter what another Pope thinks about women in the Church there will never be women priests.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/women-and-the-priesthood

“I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful” (OrdinatioSacerdotalis 4).

And in 1995 the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in conjunction with the pope, ruled that this teaching “requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium (cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium 25:2)” (Response of Oct. 25, 1995)”

No need in discussing sodomites. We all know what the Cathecism of the Catholic Church says about sodomy. That also will never change. It is written in stone.

The only thing Pope Francis or any other Pope will do is tell you what the Church’s position is. He upholds the teachings of the Church. He changes nothing. Sorry libs.


85 posted on 07/29/2013 9:24:13 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Tired of Taxes
In the direct translation (I posted it somewhere above), the Pope criticizes the homosexual lobby. He says: "One must distinguish between being gay, having this tendency, and lobbying."

That's not "criticism"; That's a swat with a feather-duster.

For the record, I do not like the term "gay" being misused in that way, either. But, I think maybe the Pope just hasn't heard the United States conservative's argument against the misuse of this English word.

The Pope's words were VERY carefully chosen, my friend. He ill-advisedly legitimized the euphemistically deceptive propagandist word, "gay" instead of "homosexual".

86 posted on 07/29/2013 9:29:57 AM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: markomalley; MinuteGal

In your church, if you have somebody who had a sinful past and wants to repent of that, you tell them that their sin is unforgivable and that they are unwelcome, if that sin they repent of is homosexuality.

If that sin is ongoing because of continuous homosexual thoughtso even if no alleged actions, it’s kind of hard to ever get over the sin, isn’t it. Perhaps then that person would be better suited to leave the Catholic Church and join the Episcopalians where he/she would be more welcome.


87 posted on 07/29/2013 9:30:35 AM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: IbJensen

He should have just said he loves the sinner and hates the sin


88 posted on 07/29/2013 9:31:44 AM PDT by GeronL
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To: IbJensen

The two are not the same. We have a sinful nature which we always struggle against and can not prevail against without the Grace of God. Giving into the temptation is the sin, not the struggle against it.


89 posted on 07/29/2013 9:34:06 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: RummyChick
The Pope said that the Church welcomes all who "seek the Lord with good will." Even if they struggle with those tendencies. That position is no different from the position that protestant denominations take (not including those denominations that actually marry same-sex couples).
90 posted on 07/29/2013 9:35:06 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: Dutchboy88; MinuteGal

“Please re-read Book that your gang claims to have delivered to the world...it has another story. One without a Roman pontiff, without venerating Mary, without indulgences, without genuflecting, without candles, without men in bathrobes riding in bullet proof cars. Check it out...it is free”

Yes, and all you want to do is jump over 1500 years of biblical writings, interpretation, traditions and history and then claim the interpretation of that book (the Bible) as your own. It doesn’t work that way.


91 posted on 07/29/2013 9:36:27 AM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: flaglady47
If that sin is ongoing because of continuous homosexual thoughtso even if no alleged actions, it’s kind of hard to ever get over the sin, isn’t it. Perhaps then that person would be better suited to leave the Catholic Church and join the Episcopalians where he/she would be more welcome.

On a doctrinal level, encouraging such a person to join the Episcopalians would be similar to condemning the person to Hell, as the 'piskies would just encourage them to act on their urges, while the Catholic Church would encourage them to learn to pick up their cross and follow Him (Mt 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.)

On a practical basis, in many (most) parishes, the subject sadly doesn't come up. And I can just see liberal heterodox Catholics citing this MSM account to say that the Church has changed its position, when nothing of the sort has been changed.

92 posted on 07/29/2013 9:38:55 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Tired of Taxes
What he said falls in line with what both Catholics and protestants believe.

Judging from reactions here, maybe not so much.

93 posted on 07/29/2013 9:39:45 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: IbJensen

Preaching to the Sunday only (between the hours of 10am and 12:01pm) Catholics.


94 posted on 07/29/2013 9:40:29 AM PDT by MaxMax (If you're not pissed off, you're not paying attention)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

I use SSA to mean a person who is sexually attracted to somebody of the same sex. It is a disorder which is against what God wants for us. Those who truly fight this desire and want to live chaste lives should be supported by Christians. Especially now when they are told by so many to just give in and that there is no sin at all in sodomy.

If we simply give them a message of damnation without telling them how Salvation is theirs through and in Jesus Christ we have failed. We must always speak the truth with our main concern being that the message of the Gospel does not get drowned out by the lies of the World, the Flesh, and The Devil.


95 posted on 07/29/2013 9:40:38 AM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: USS Johnston

Agreed. I would’ve liked for him to have been stronger in his criticism.


96 posted on 07/29/2013 9:41:41 AM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: markomalley

“Catholics citing this MSM account to say that the Church has changed its position, when nothing of the sort has been changed.”

The Church’s position may not have changed, but the Pope’s interpretation of it is being bent bigtime.


97 posted on 07/29/2013 9:45:50 AM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: IbJensen
The Church is as fortunate as our pitiful nation!

-Now there will be NO IRS audits of Roman Catholic Churches in America.

-Now Catholic schools will not have to hand out condoms to their students.

-Now Catholic hospitals will not have to provide birth control and abortion services.

-Obama will drop the Order he issued to them to start providing birth control and abortions.

-The IRS will now DROP the requirement that the Roman Catholic Church Pro-Life groups clear their prayers with the IRS, before praying them, like they did to that PL group in Iowa.

The pope’s statements are a major, 90 degree left turn from the previous positions of the previous popes following Pius XII, who were all lukewarm on most of the major tenets of the Church, but stood firm on abortion and sodomy.

It’s amazing to me how some feeble non-believers think that the mind of god can shift so strongly and swiftly from one pope to the next. These cafeteria Catholics believe that Jesus Christ should be brought into the 21st century and are too stupid to believe that our Savior does not change and he doesn’t wear Nikes, nor does he wear a loose baseball cap backwards!

This pope is a true modernist with deep secular leanings and stands as proof that the Church will not change until the second coming. There are many churchmen that will not make it past the Pearly Gates.

Francis is the antithesis of what the leader who sits on the throne of Peter should be.

Watch your back, FRiend. Your co-religionists will be gunning for you for telling the truth.

98 posted on 07/29/2013 9:45:59 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: IbJensen
Pope: 'Who am I to judge' gay people?

An expert of God's word.

99 posted on 07/29/2013 9:48:31 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: stanne
Those who created the catechism were and are biblical scholars

Who believe that Genesis is primitive mythology--just like Mary did, I assume.

100 posted on 07/29/2013 9:53:17 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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