Posted on 07/29/2013 5:33:38 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday, saying he wouldn't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference as he returned from his first foreign trip...
"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked.
His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.
Francis' remarks came Monday during a plane journey back to the Vatican from his first foreign trip in Brazil.
He was funny and candid during a news conference that lasted almost an hour and a half. He didn't dodge a single question, even thanking the journalist who raised allegations reported by an Italian newsmagazine that one of his trusted monsignors was involved in a scandalous gay tryst.
(Excerpt) Read more at mobile.philly.com ...
True, that some people struggle with that particular attraction as sin, however, according to Romans 1, it does indicate a depravity of human nature that goes beyond the ordinary.
The problem is, if it were only an orientation, or rather a temptation, then there would be no need for anyone to know about it.
Unfortunately, what with the prevalence of gay priests, obviously it is not remaining something unknown.
Another problem I see with it, is that by acknowledging it and not doing anything about it, it tends to foster an acceptance of it, which will eventually erode the stigma, or sense of sinfulness, about it.
I completely agree with your view on temptation not being sin. It only becomes sin when we entertain and then engage in it, even if only on a mental level. Sin begins in the heart often long before it manifests in the actions.
Some of the automatic autopilot excuses from the Catholic side are nearly as onerous as the spin from the liberal/secular side. In fact, he doesn't ever seem to get tired. They said he was "funny and candid" during the interview.
Oh, do I wish they had selected a Catholic pope such as Cardinal Malcolm Ranjith.
I for one, knew well before I first had sex that I was attracted to girls. Probably by the age of eight or nine...
Good idea!
We've had ENOUGH of being TRAYVONed lately!
“integrated into society”
Like they integrated into the society if Sodom and Gomorrah?
What if a person is gay and DOES NOT seek God OR HAVE good will, can you 'judge' him(her) then?
...and simply replied that if a gay person is a someone of faith, who is he to judge.
WHAT???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-G0bkl8MQ
Oh,you poorly catechized one.
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus: “There are other, almost countless, proofs drawn from the most trustworthy witnesses which clearly and openly testify with great faith, exactitude, respect and obedience that all who want to belong to the true and only Church of Christ must honor and obey this Apostolic See and Roman Pontiff." Pope Pius IX, Amantissimus (On The Care Of The Churches), Encyclical promulgated on April 8, 1862, # 3.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P9AMANT2.HTM
• Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord, outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church. (On the Unity of the Catholic Church)
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9singul.htm
• Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam: “We declare, say, define, and pronounce [ex cathedra] that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” "If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " — Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302)
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html
• Fifth Lateran Council: Moreover, since subjection to the Roman pontiff is necessary for salvation for all Christ's faithful, as we are taught by the testimony of both sacred scripture and the holy fathers, and as is declared by the constitution of pope Boniface VIII of happy memory, also our predecessor, which begins Unam sanctam, we therefore...renew and give our approval to that constitution... Fifth Lateran CouncilSession 11, 19 December 1516,
http://www.piar.hu/councils/ecum18.htm
• Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos: Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors. Did not the ancestors of those who are now entangled in the errors of Photius [the eastern “Orthodox” schismatics] and the reformers, obey the Bishop of Rome, the chief shepherd of souls?...Let none delude himself with obstinate wrangling. For life and salvation are here concerned...” Pope Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, PTC:873) The Promotion of True Religious Unity), 11, Encyclical promulgated on January 6, 1928, #11;
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos_en.html
Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV: "One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours." — Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215) [considered infallible by some]
• Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema. — Vatican 1, Ses. 4, Cp. 1
• Pius 9, Quanto Conficiamur Moerore: “Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff..”
-http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9quanto.htm
St. Thomas Aquinas: It is also shown that to be subject to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. For Cyril says in his Thesaurus: “Therefore, brethren, if we imitate Christ so as to hear his voice remaining in the Church of Peter and so as not be puffed up by the wind of pride, lest perhaps because of our quarrelling the wily serpent drive us from paradise as once he did Eve.” And Maximus in the letter addressed to the Orientals [Greeks] says: “The Church united and established upon the rock of Peter’s confession we call according to the decree of the Savior the universal Church, wherein we must remain for the salvation of our souls and wherein loyal to his faith and confession we must obey him.” — St. Thomas Aquinas, Against the Errors of the Greeks, Pt. 2, ch. 36
http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraErrGraecorum.htm#b38
• St. Frances Xavier Cabrini: "Many Protestants have almost the same practices as we, only they do not submit to the Holy Father and attach themselves to the true Ark of Salvation. They do not want to become Catholics and unite themselves under the banner of truth wherein alone there is true salvation. Of what avail is it, children, if Protestants lead naturally pure, honest lives, yet lack the Holy Ghost? They may well say: 'We do no harm; we lead good lives'; but, if they do not enter the true fold of Christ, all their protestations are in vain." St. Frances Xavier Cabrini, "Travels", Chicago: 1944, pp. 84, 71.
• St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke: "The Lord severed the Jewish people from His kingdom, and heretics and schismatics are also severed from the kingdom of God and from the Church. Our Lord makes it perfectly clear that every assembly of heretics and schismatics belongs not to God, but to the unclean spirit." — St. Ambrose, "Expl. of Luke", ch.7, 91-95; PL 15; SS, vol. II, p. 85, (quoted in The Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 2: "Those Who Reject Christ's Church are Anti-Christian").http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic4chp2.html
Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."
Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (1302): "We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her' (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism' (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
— Pope Boniface VIII, Unam Sanctam (Promulgated November 18, 1302) "If, therefore, the Greeks or others say that they are not committed to Peter and to his successors, they necessarily say that they are not of the sheep of Christ, since the Lord says that there is only one fold and one shepherd (Jn.10:16). Whoever, therefore, resists this authority, resists the command of God Himself. " http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/b8-unam.html
Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."
Let me rephrase my comments a little bit about the term “gay”. Like the liberal Jesse Jackson-cloned word American-American, which I refuse to use because most blacks have been in this country over 300 years. This hyphenated garbage is wrong. An American is an American. You want to call them anything call them black or negro, which is what they were called (and what their race is) for 275 years before Jesse Jackson got on the bandwagon to try and separate Americans from each other.
I also refuse to use the term “gay” to denote a homosexual.
Just another word the liberal media started calling homosexuals to try and convince straight people that homosexuals are perfectly normal people and are happy all the time. Nothing is further from the truth. Most of them know their CHOSEN lifestyle is wrong and most suffer depression. They have suicide rates higher than straight people and suffer from alcoholism at a much higher rate than normal folks. That is a fact. Most lesbians are big fat gals who were fat the majority of the lives and couldn’t find a boyfriend so they turned to women. Most homosexual men had no strong father in the home or no father at all. Most were pampered by their mothers. No man to show them how to be a man, just a woman to show them how woman “feel” and do things. That’s also a fact. Homosexuality is nurture, not nature and anyone with a brain realizes this. It was classified as mental disorder for years by the American Medical Association, then the liberal homosexual lobby got their way and it’s now “considered” perfectly normal behavior to be a homosexual, which is of course wrong. So once again, I know of no “gay” homosexuals.
Any NON-Catholics flying with him?
This is not true at all!
After all, a Pope's opinions are not infallible --- not even his theological opinions.
I looked it up on the internet and found a site called "Catholic Answers". It says that the church cannot change "teachings" as in doctrine. They can change ("loosen") disciplines. See site below for examples if you'd like.
I guess it depends on whether a stance on homosexality is a doctrine or a discipline. I was unable to find cite that states whether the Catholic Church categorizes their stance on homosexuality as "doctrine" or "discipline", but I would be surprised if it is considered a doctrine.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/can-the-church-change-its-doctrines
True; but are they JUDGEABLE?
The articles headline is just one more attempt by the MSM to dishonestly promote homosexuality.
Hopefully, all Catholics will learn a lesson from this. Never try to discuss your faith with anyone in the MSM. They will dishonestly misrepresent your statements.
Stay on topic. The argument, clue in the title of the source article, was what the pope said about homosexuality. He will always represent yhe Church, hence’what the Church says about...’.
The Church NEVER goes against Biblical teaching regardless what many protestants say about the Chirch doing the opposite of this
Here is catechetical reference. I will read it at look for sources which are certainly biblical
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm#2357
Did it EVER?
“but also Jews”
Martin Luther was the biggest anti-semite in the history of organized religion. The majority of Nazi Germany was Lutheran. They had no problems with wanting to wipe Jews off the face of the earth because that what their hero Martin Luther wanted.
Oh i know that
Iam talking only about the subject at hand. The pope is not going to change Church teaching on homosexuality on the plane ride home from wyd. Anyone who doesnt get tha doesnt get to waste my time
Well; according to Rome; just WHAT does this mean?
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