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To: xone

Chapter 11

What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly_and I myself was unaware of it_will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know....

http://www.colchestercollection.com/titles/chunk/O/on-the-jews/chapter11.html

 
 I found several other inconsistent versions - for example look at this section:
[they have been blood thirsty bloodhounds and murderers of all Christendom for more than fourteen hundred years in their intentions, and would undoubtedly prefer to be such with their deeds. Thus they have been accused of poisoning water and wells, of kidnaping children, of piercing them through with an awl, of hacking them in pieces, and in that way secretly cooling their wrath with the blood of Christians, for all of which they have often been condemned to death by fire.]
 
[For these Jews are much holier than were those in the Babylonian captivity, who did not curse, who did not secretly shed the blood of children, nor poison the water, but who rather as Jeremiah had instructed them [Jer. 29:7] prayed for their captors, the Babylonians. The reason is that they were not as holy as the present-day Jews, nor did they have such smart rabbis as the present-day Jews have; for Jeremiah, Daniel, and Ezekiel were big fools to teach this. They would, I suppose, be torn to shreds by the teeth of today's Jews.]
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres9/Luthereng.pdf#page=1&zoom=auto,0,89
 
Another version supposedly translates (or mistranslates) the German thus:
[In history, therefore, they are often accused of poisoning wells, stealing children and mutilating them; as in Trent, Weiszensee, etc. Of course, they deny this. Be it so or not, however, I know full well that the full, ready will is not lacking
with them if they could only transform it into deeds, in secret or openly. Know this for a certainty and aut accordingly]
 
Shed the blood of Children? Awls? Hacking to pieces?  Poisoning the water?
 
Oh dear. Well that's all very disturbing. 
 
Q1:  Is there historical evidence that corroborates Luther's (alleged) assertion the Jews did those things?
 
["not as holy as the present-day Jews"]
Was that "holy" religious nature manufactured by humans -- or was it manufactured by their Creator?
 
 
[the unjust God lets such holy people curse (I wanted to say "pray") so vehemently in vain against our Messiah
and all Christians. He does not care to see or have anything to do either with them or with their pious conduct, which is so thickly, thickly, heavily, heavily coated with the blood of the Messiah and his Christians.]
http://www.colchestercollection.com/titles/pdf/O/on-the-jews.pdf  (page 129)
 
 
 
Hmmm.  Unjust God?  Coated with the blood? 

Hard to believe Luther wrote that ---  Especially given that the cross being heavily coated with the blameless blood of the Lamb/Messiah was SORT OF THE WHOLE SACRIFICIAL CRUX upon which the resurrection was hung.

http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/JewsAndTheirLies.pdf
http://www.colchestercollection.com/titles/pdf/O/on-the-jews.pdf
http://www.resist.com/Instauration/OtherPubs-20120723/TheJewsAndTheirLies-Luther.pdf
http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres9/Luthereng.pdf
 
Which one is reliable?

Q2:  Is the self-evident fact that NO mention of, NOR any authoritative reference translation of, the work in question can be found at...
 
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22Jews+and+their+lies%22+site%3Awww.lcms.org&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1
 
...an ERROR?

87 posted on 07/14/2013 9:16:22 PM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: TArcher

Luther had a damnation-mentality problem. This carried over from his Roman Catholic background, where religious leaders soon found that the more they could hold over a sinner’s head, the more power they had.

This is not just a Christian problem, by the way!


89 posted on 07/14/2013 9:22:53 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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To: TArcher
So, you refuse to go and read. Can't help you. Lutheran doctrine and practice are based upon Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions not Luther.

Resolved, That we avoid the recurring pitfall of recrimination (as illustrated by the remarks of Luther and many of the early church fathers) against those who do not respond positively to our evangelistic efforts; and be it finally

Resolved, That, in that light, we personally and individually adopt Luther's final attitude toward the Jewish people, as evidenced in his last sermon: "We want to treat them with Christian love and to pray for them, so that they may become converted and would receive the Lord."(Weimar editon, Vol 51, Pg 195)

90 posted on 07/14/2013 9:31:40 PM PDT by xone
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To: TArcher

You might also wish to note that it’s in large part through the heritage of the Christian reformers (Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli) whose rivalry was often fierce yet whose legacy ultimately blended to produce a strong branch of Christendom independent of Roman Catholic domination, that the modern country of Israel was helped to be founded. This wouldn’t be the first time in history that God used a klutz with hate problems as a vessel to ultimately carry out His blessings, and it may be a mercy that we don’t have a lot on many early biblical characters other than what was recorded in the bible — the warts might throw us off badly.


91 posted on 07/14/2013 9:34:33 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Whatever promise that God has made, in Jesus it is yes. See my page.)
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