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Mind Over Matter: Debunking Alternative Medicines
The New York Times ^ | July 1, 2013 | Abigail Zuger

Posted on 07/03/2013 12:49:19 PM PDT by EveningStar

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To: Sherman Logan

If the science is good the presentation shouldn’t matter.

Too bad the consensus establishment minds were all petty and closed on the matter.

Too bad for all the women killed in the ensuing decades.

Having been in science for decades I can tell you that undoubtedly Semmelweis wasn’t the only egotistical jerk involved. Just ask Michael Mann about being an egotistical jerk.


51 posted on 07/03/2013 2:03:37 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: driftdiver

My whole family uses natural remedies-so I don’t want any of their stuff-it is already obvious from all the drug-related lawsuits that I’ll live longer without it...


52 posted on 07/03/2013 2:04:04 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Flouride is a by product of aluminum production. Decades ago Alcoa didn’t have a good way to dispose of all the flouride it was producing so they convinced the government to add it to drinking water. It is definitely poisonous and should not be consumed on a regular basis. If you want to use flouride to prevent cavities use it in toothpaste or an oral rinse. Please don’t make every man woman and child in town ingest it on a daily basis.


53 posted on 07/03/2013 2:05:33 PM PDT by csmusaret (Will remove Obama-Biden bumperstickers for $10)
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To: Black Agnes

BTW, my boss came back three years ago or so from Belize with some sort of tropical infection that turned into colitis.

Tried very hard to treat it with nutrition, etc. because he didn’t like “modern medicine.” Then his colon ruptured, he had to have emergency surgery to remove the entire colon, and his heart stopped 3x on the table.

Modern medicine saved his ass.

My personal take is that the alternative stuff may often be great for maintenance, but if you’ve got something seriously wrong modern medicine is a whole lot more likely to save your life.

Look up the survival rates for wounded soldiers in various wars over the last 200 years. We think of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars as comparatively low in deaths, but the main reason is that so many are saved after wounding. Most of whom would have died in earlier wars.


54 posted on 07/03/2013 2:06:11 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Black Agnes

Doctors had this whole ego thing going then too. They were offended by being told that they themselves were the cause of childbed fever.

The problem is they were.


55 posted on 07/03/2013 2:07:33 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: EveningStar

Hogwash.

When I had a whiplash, I went to the emergency room at nearby hospital, my doctor, a physical therapist as prescribed by doctor, and an acupuncturist, in that order.

The hospital X-ray tech made several mistakes, meaning I had several unnecessary X-rays and who knows how much radiation. They prescribed painkillers that were far, far too strong, knocking me unconscious unnecessarily.

The doctor prescribed other meds, with the same results.

The physical therapist made the pain worse.

The accupuncturist, an old Chinese doc, gave me two days of relief every time I saw him. A good result.

The person who eventually took the pain away was a physical therapist who was also a Feldenkrais practitioner. She did zero phys therapy and all Feldenkrais stuff...an hour of her time meant she was working on me for 55 minutes. EXCELLENT result. Pain left, more or less permanently.

A couple of years later, I had to see the insurance company doctor. He was very pleasant and thorough, wrote a report saying they should NOT pay for “ineffective” accupuncture and Feldenkrais — the ONLY things that helped. The medical racketeer, protecting others.

So, no, I’m not very interested in conventional medicine, tho someday I may need surgery or something like that, so I leave the door open. But I simply do not believe in it. And try to live in such a way that I don’t need to get into the medical merry-go-round. Do not trust BigPHarma nor BigDoc.


56 posted on 07/03/2013 2:09:08 PM PDT by Veto! (Opinions freely expressed as advice)
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To: Sherman Logan

The great things from ‘modern medicine’ are antibiotics, sterile surgical suites, blood transfusions and diagnostic equipment.

The rest is iffy at best.

You can’t ‘alternative’ medicine repairing that femoral artery ruptured in the auto accident.

Avoiding gluten and wheat related products to cure eczema that’s been plagueing you since childhood? Yup. Worked better than the zillion creams and pills every derm east of the mississippi had prescribed for 35 years. Been gluten free for 2 years now and had zero eczema.

Guess how many derms suggested my problem might be dietary intolerance?

Zero.

I want my money back.


57 posted on 07/03/2013 2:10:34 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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To: Sherman Logan

The fact that sewage lines, septic tanks and such are closed, underground, and 100+ feet away from wells/water lines, rather than open, germ-infested ditches right next to wells, vegetable gardens, etc. Also helps to keep the livestock in their own barn, detached from the house...


58 posted on 07/03/2013 2:13:36 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Sparticus
Absolutely! Just a few hundred years ago, the majority of doctors thought that the idea that infections are caused by germs was ludicrous.

Medical knowledge has certainly improved 100-fold, at least, over the last few hundred years, but you know what hasn't improved? People. People get lazy, apathetic, and callous. That may not be a big problem when the person is a ditch digger, but when he's a doctor charged with diagnosing ailments, prescribing medicine, and performing surgery, it can lead to unpleasant things, like death.

My experience with the modern medical field, which is, at this point, unfortunately extensive, has shown me that the level of knowledge and complexity of modern medicine has outstripped the ability of the average doctor to track it and understand it properly. Thus, we get doctors prescribing the latest fad medicine, refusing to take more than 5 minutes to listen to a patient before deciding on whichever diagnosis requires the least amount of thought and effort, recommending unnecessary surgeries, sewing scalpels into people's bodies, administering contra-indicated drugs, and generally just putting in a minimum of effort. Now before some of you medical Freepers get your panties twisted - it's obvious that not every doctor does this, but there is a reason that doctors' errors kill more people every year than car accidents and gunshots.

I think that the medical profession has been falsely elevated to some mythical status, where people are expected to blindly accept whatever a guy with a medical degree says. Especially when it comes to new problems, modern medicine gets it wrong as much as they get it right. That's part of the learning process and probably can't be helped, but everyone should take the position that the primary responsibility for their health rests with themselves. Doctors are merely a tool.
59 posted on 07/03/2013 2:15:01 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: driftdiver
Egyptians were doing brain surgery.

Yes, they were...and how successful were they compared to 21st Century doctors treating similar ailments?

Western medicine is better at some things. They are much worse at others.

Such as?

I can speak from personal experience regarding one area of medicine; I was diagnosed with stage III kidney cancer last year. I was taking my yearly physical, and there were microscopic amounts of blood in my urine. Not wanting to take a chance, my doctor had me get a C/T scan, which revealed the tumor.

I took an experimental drug (pazopanib) which shrunk the tumor by 2/3rds over the course of 3 months, and then had a partial nephrectomy (kidney removal) at the Cleveland Clinic. I had to get a partial because my other kidney, while otherwise healthy, was only 1/4 the normal size (born that way, had no idea until then).

Long story short: I'm now cancer-free, and going on a photo safari to South Africa in a month. Modern medicine works!

60 posted on 07/03/2013 2:16:20 PM PDT by Kip Russell
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To: Veto!

We’ve taken our kids to the chiropractor since they were born. We literally stopped at the office on the way home with each, and just yesterday he reminded me to call him if baby number three and I get released on a weekend because he would stop by the hospital for us. No extra charge by the way, he just wants the peace of mind knowing that we are okay. I had my second accupuncture treatment today for lower back pain due to pregnancy. The first session pretty much took care of the pain, but I don’t want to skip a session and have it return. Maybe it’s all in my head. If it is I’m okay with that because I’m pretty much pain free right now as compared to being almost unable to walk last week. Our insurance pays for the chiro but not the acupuncture. I’ll gladly pay cash as long as it keeps helping.


61 posted on 07/03/2013 2:22:37 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Black Agnes

My parents were born at home on the ranch, and no one thought anything of it, even though there was a hospital 50-60 miles away.

Some of my cousins have had home births,too-it has enjoyed a resurgence with people in remote areas-a nurse practitioner who is a midwife is cheaper-and safer-than a hospital if there are no complications anticipated. I had my kid at a military hospital, Lamaze method-I went home 12 hours later to rest where it was nice and quiet...


62 posted on 07/03/2013 2:23:35 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Kip Russell

Alternative medicine is better at preventing the cancer in the first place.


63 posted on 07/03/2013 2:26:18 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: fr_freak

My cousin is a young MD doing her residency at Cornell. She said the new thing is Just Say No to Drug Reps. The reps come in with their free ink pens, notepads, etc., then literally wine and dine the docs while telling them about the new meds. She said she was very surprised how these reps go for the hard sell.


64 posted on 07/03/2013 2:28:11 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: goodwithagun

Is that why the urologist’s office is wallpapered in Viagra ads?


65 posted on 07/03/2013 2:30:40 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
Here half a century and still no cavities.

I knew a man that died long before fluoride was even talked about. He died at 72 without a single cavity in his mouth.

Apparently he had some sort of immunity to the cavity causing bacteria, because that era was not known for dental hygiene, or any other kind of hygiene, for that matter.

66 posted on 07/03/2013 2:33:47 PM PDT by itsahoot (It is not so much that history repeats, but that human nature does not change.)
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To: EveningStar

BookMark


67 posted on 07/03/2013 2:34:57 PM PDT by thesearethetimes... ("Courage, is fear that has said its prayers." Dorothy Bernard)
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To: goodwithagun

A neighbor was a drug company rep, and he said they the docs used to enter contests where the one who prescribed the most of the company’s drugs and handed out the most samples (read: got the most people hooked) before the rep’s next sales call to them would win a weekend to a Sandals resort or something like that. That neighbor sells prosthetic equipment now-no hard sell...


68 posted on 07/03/2013 2:42:34 PM PDT by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Truth29

“Agree and the short list changes from person to person so its validity is always is question.”

And yet so few people in history have health threats from alternative therapies. Virtually none die.
Compare that to FDA approved drugs, that have serious side effects in many and often cause death after
being approved and passing studies... and don’t work for all.


69 posted on 07/03/2013 2:55:21 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.” - Tacitus)
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To: Dr. Sivana

Good point.


70 posted on 07/03/2013 3:14:55 PM PDT by OldNewYork (Biden '13. Impeach now.)
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To: driftdiver

yes. We should only listen to mainstream medical advice. Such as margarine is good for you. Vegetable oil is good for you. All fat is bad. Yes. Mainsteam medical advice is always correct.


71 posted on 07/03/2013 4:14:11 PM PDT by imskylark
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To: TigersEye

“He considers vitamins to be a hoax too?”

Why do you need vitamins if you aren’t eating just junk food? Not to mention those substances need to be in the presence of other substances to be absorbed by the body so most people just have expensive poop and pee.


72 posted on 07/03/2013 4:21:42 PM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: driftdiver

“So we’ve learned more in the last 200 years than was learned in the previous 5000?”

Yes. Yes, we have. We also have far more people that can read and write, have educations, and contribute more per capita than at any other time.


73 posted on 07/03/2013 4:22:27 PM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: CodeToad

context is everything


74 posted on 07/03/2013 4:26:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Kip Russell

“Modern medicine works! “

Yes, it does. People that try to claim otherwise have never had such things as cancer. They have minor problems that need little modern medicine and then claim major victory over modern medicine.


75 posted on 07/03/2013 4:29:48 PM PDT by CodeToad (Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off. -786 +969)
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To: CodeToad

Did I say I needed vitamins?


76 posted on 07/03/2013 9:21:55 PM PDT by TigersEye ("No man left behind" is more than an Army Ranger credo it's the character of America.)
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To: grania

I’ll settle for eating progressively less and less stuff my body shouldn’t ingest. I’m not sure I understand your reasoning behind pure foods. To me, the benefits seem to be that, calorie for calorie, they’re far more nutrient rich relative to manufactured foods. They typically have a lower glycemic index, meaning they convert to sugar in your body more slowly. And They have no chemical junk in them. There are many benefits - too many to list.

I think a big factor in limiting over eating when trying to improve one’s diet is to get enough healthy fats. My current favorite breakfast (2nd b’fast a actually) is a cup of Cabot’s 10% milk fat Greek yogurt, a handful of raspberries from my yard, and several tablespoons of local honey.

Off to go biking. Happy 4th!


77 posted on 07/04/2013 2:09:30 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: goodwithagun

Sounds like a great healer, your chiropractor. You’re so very smart to start your babies out with him too. I think some insurance pays for acupuncture. But it’s getting so complex, you have to study everybody’s policies every single year.

The auto insurance companies here pay for acupuncture for pain relief. In the state of WA, “Group Health” will pay for a dozen visits/year for other things, with their doc’s approval, of course. Friend who was driving me to acupuncturist was so impressed with the difference it made for me that he asked Group Health to pay for it for his stomach problems. They did.

When I lived in SF, I found a terrific Chinese acupuncturist/herbalist. I could write pages on the wonderful things they did for me. Dr. Ng was my “primary care” guy. I’d make appointments at the beginning of the day so we’d have time to talk about how it worked. He was, of course delighted that a westerner was so curious and spent a lot of time educating me. I’d come away from his office feeling like I was walking through a forest of tall trees and the air seemed fresh and clear, tho in reality I was in dusty noisy Chinatown. A body in harmony with itself.

I really don’t think pain is “all in your head.” And I really wish you the very very best for another healthy happy baby.


78 posted on 07/04/2013 8:46:44 AM PDT by Veto! (Opinions freely expressed as advice)
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To: goodwithagun
coconut oil is one of the healthiest for us.

Maybe so. But I just don't like the stuff, not even on my skin.

Perhaps influenced by reports that jungles have been mowed under to plant palm oil trees. Coconut palms, I think but am not sure.

I would rather have jungles remain homes to God's creatures that are under siege and threatened with extinction.

Recently discovered Argan oil for my skin...it's super.

79 posted on 07/04/2013 8:55:42 AM PDT by Veto! (Opinions freely expressed as advice)
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To: Black Agnes
This is a concerted media prelude to reintroducing Codex Alimentarius.

Yes, exactly. No one in the world should enjoy higher nutritional standards than those living in huts in 3rd world countries.

Did you know that Bayer (proud producer of GMOs,) funded Codex? I found that about ten years ago in the dark recesses of UN pages online when we first got word of Codex. I'm sure it's been scrubbed by now.

80 posted on 07/04/2013 9:00:33 AM PDT by Veto! (Opinions freely expressed as advice)
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To: CodeToad
Why do you need vitamins if you aren’t eating just junk food?

Because the soil is no longer real...full of artificial chemicals and pesticides, so food crops are no longer chock full of the nutrients God made them with. Maybe if you buy organic grains and produce and things made with them, you won't need vitamins. But I take them as insurance.

81 posted on 07/04/2013 9:11:09 AM PDT by Veto! (Opinions freely expressed as advice)
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To: Kip Russell
I took an experimental drug (pazopanib) which shrunk the tumor by 2/3rds over the course of 3 months, and then had a partial nephrectomy (kidney removal) at the Cleveland Clinic. I had to get a partial because my other kidney, while otherwise healthy, was only 1/4 the normal size (born that way, had no idea until then).

Long story short: I'm now cancer-free, and going on a photo safari to South Africa in a month. Modern medicine works!

Great story!

82 posted on 07/04/2013 9:14:20 AM PDT by USS Johnston (Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be bought at the price of chains & slavery? - Patrick Henry)
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To: EveningStar

I still drink chicken soup and eat hot chili when I have a cold.


83 posted on 07/04/2013 9:18:04 AM PDT by PJ-Comix (Beware YRip in the Space/Time Continuum)
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To: EveningStar

Ordinary sea water still seems to work the best at healing cuts. I once had a nasty cut on my knuckle that festered for weeks UNTIL I went swimming in the ocean. Within a short time it completely healed that wound.


84 posted on 07/04/2013 9:20:15 AM PDT by PJ-Comix (Beware YRip in the Space/Time Continuum)
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