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Revealed: the top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant
The Guardian ^ | June 20,2013 | Glenn Greenwald & James Ball

Posted on 06/20/2013 3:22:58 PM PDT by SE Mom

Top secret documents submitted to the court that oversees surveillance by US intelligence agencies show the judges have signed off on broad orders which allow the NSA to make use of information "inadvertently" collected from domestic US communications without a warrant.

The Guardian is publishing in full two documents submitted to the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (known as the Fisa court), signed by Attorney General Eric Holder and stamped 29 July 2009. They detail the procedures the NSA is required to follow to target "non-US persons" under its foreign intelligence powers and what the agency does to minimize data collected on US citizens and residents in the course of that surveillance.

The documents show that even under authorities governing the collection of foreign intelligence from foreign targets, US communications can still be collected, retained and used.

(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ap; benghazi; bigot; contempt; criminal; doj; fastandfurious; greenwald; holder; impeachnow; irs; liar; nsa; perjury; racist; rosen; snowden; threatmatrix
The third or is it the 4th installment?
1 posted on 06/20/2013 3:22:58 PM PDT by SE Mom
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To: maggief; penelopesire; MestaMachine; Perdogg; hoosiermama; holdonnow

Just popped up on Drudge


2 posted on 06/20/2013 3:24:40 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom

FOREIGN Intelligence Surveillance Court (known as the Fisa court )

That says it all !!


3 posted on 06/20/2013 3:25:12 PM PDT by Tilted Irish Kilt (“Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.” - Ronald Reagan)
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To: SE Mom
judges have signed off on broad orders which allow the NSA to make use of information "inadvertently" collected from domestic US communications without a warrant.

"Inadvertently"...that's like "Unexpected"

4 posted on 06/20/2013 3:26:05 PM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: SE Mom

We have not so secret rules that govern our country.

We call it the Constitution


5 posted on 06/20/2013 3:30:07 PM PDT by PATRIOT1876 (The only crimes that are 100% preventable are crimes committed by illegal aliens)
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To: SE Mom

Why is Eric Holder signing off on these documents?

If it is an NSA program, why is the Attorney General involved?

Shouldn’t this be under the direction of Homeland Security?


6 posted on 06/20/2013 3:31:00 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: Don Corleone

And further it says:

However, alongside those provisions, the Fisa court-approved policies allow the NSA to:

• Keep data that could potentially contain details of US persons for up to five years;

• Retain and make use of “inadvertently acquired” domestic communications if they contain usable intelligence, information on criminal activity, threat of harm to people or property, are encrypted, or are believed to contain any information relevant to cybersecurity;

• Preserve “foreign intelligence information” contained within attorney-client communications;

• Access the content of communications gathered from “U.S. based machine[s]” or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the US, for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance


7 posted on 06/20/2013 3:32:29 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom

I’m sorry, the Constitution and Bill of Rights have not been amended! That is what it would take to allow warrantless searches! Whatever “law” was passed to allow such a thing is completely invalid as those that passed it had not the authority to do so.


8 posted on 06/20/2013 3:36:16 PM PDT by Boiling point (Socialism; Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.)
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To: SE Mom

” Access the content of communications gathered from “U.S. based machine[s]” or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the US, for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.”

That is really interesting, especially in light of this paraphrase:

“Oh, no, we are not listening to conversations.” - Barak Obama.

Lie on top of lie on top of lie on top of lie......


9 posted on 06/20/2013 3:42:17 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: SE Mom
Fact is, we live in a third-world dictatorship. The Generalissimo can do anything he pleases, to anybody he pleases.

Won't be long now.

10 posted on 06/20/2013 3:43:31 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Religious faith in government is far crazier than religious faith in God.)
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To: Boiling point

Well see, it’s a secret program signed off on by secret judges. What could go wrong? !


11 posted on 06/20/2013 3:44:00 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom
In practice, much of the decision-making appears to lie with NSA analysts, rather than the Fisa court or senior officials.

Surprise!!!! FISA courts are are a rubberstamp!

12 posted on 06/20/2013 3:44:18 PM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Bryan24

Are we still wondering if Snowden is a hero or traitor?


13 posted on 06/20/2013 3:45:03 PM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: SE Mom

What a relief. I was worried that it wouldn’t be narrowly focused...


14 posted on 06/20/2013 3:45:47 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: longfellowsmuse

He’s a traitor. Had he gone to the Intelligence Committees first, then Congress as a whole, then to US media, no one would say anything bad about him.


15 posted on 06/20/2013 3:47:35 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: SE Mom

I seem to recall a certain revulsion against general warrants back in the 1775-1789 time period....


16 posted on 06/20/2013 3:47:52 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: SE Mom

This is prep for the embarrassing conversations that will be released shortly. Those conversations will prove that they didn’t even follow these loose standards and that they store content.


17 posted on 06/20/2013 3:54:31 PM PDT by Rad_J
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To: Bryan24

Heres the kicker:

Even if upon examination a communication is found to be domestic – entirely within the US – the NSA can appeal to its director to keep what it has found if it contains “significant foreign intelligence information”, “evidence of a crime”, “technical data base information” (such as encrypted communications), or “information pertaining to a threat of serious harm to life or property”

Or James Rosen...or AP...or.


18 posted on 06/20/2013 3:57:10 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: SE Mom
Logic tells you that since they can't listen to EVERY call in real-time, then EVERY call is recorded.

Every phone call in the US is recorded and "electronically" vacuumed for keywords.

Shortened... EVERY PHONE CALL BY CITIZENS IN THE UNITED STATES IS RECORDED.

19 posted on 06/20/2013 4:12:55 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: Bryan24; longfellowsmuse
I hope you're joking

If he went to “intelligence” with his concerns, he'd be immediately cut off and investigated. Every single keystroke and communication analyzed. Then one of two things would happen:

1. If it was found that he took documents home, he'd be prosecuted immediately, silenced and not have the chance to tell anyone else. Anyone he communicated with after downloading the documents would be investigated.

2. If they found he took no documents, he'd be quickly fired and the government would deny anything he claims. Just another “internet conspiracy theorist” with no proof

20 posted on 06/20/2013 4:18:46 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga

He should have taken the documents for corroboration.

Yep, he would have gone to jail for possessing classified info at home. But, he would have stood a good chance of getting a pardon for whistleblowing.

You don’t take your country’s secrets to a foreign government or media outlet.


21 posted on 06/20/2013 4:24:09 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: varyouga

I believe him to be a hero.... and honestly I think if he had said anything to anyone he would be dead


22 posted on 06/20/2013 4:28:54 PM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: SE Mom

Yeah, it makes me laugh when I hear somebody say, “but a judge must sign off on it”. So one government agency tells me to “trust” them by pointing to another government agency! Oh...no problem then ;)


23 posted on 06/20/2013 4:29:34 PM PDT by fuzzylogic (welfare state = sharing consequences of poor moral choices among everybody)
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To: Bryan24

“He’s a traitor”

From where I sit, he did nothing to help our enemies, only to help the citizens of the U.S., and we should not be considered the enemy.

Any collateral help to the enemy is far less than the welfare programs that helped the Boston bombers...


24 posted on 06/20/2013 4:33:26 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: SE Mom

I have a hunch this stuff is just going to keep on coming for awhile, until our leaders are utterly discredited.

“oh yeah, That. But we didn’t go any further than that.....”

....and then they are shown to be lying again.


25 posted on 06/20/2013 4:37:44 PM PDT by cookcounty (IRS = Internal Revenge Service.)
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To: P-Marlowe
"Why is Eric Holder signing off on these documents? If it is an NSA program, why is the Attorney General involved? Shouldn’t this be under the direction of Homeland Security?

Because part of Holder's job is to give legal advice to the administration. ....You're right, it's stoopid "advice."

26 posted on 06/20/2013 4:40:07 PM PDT by cookcounty (IRS = Internal Revenge Service.)
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To: Bryan24
"” Access the content of communications gathered from “U.S. based machine[s]” or phone numbers in order to establish if targets are located in the US, for the purposes of ceasing further surveillance.”

NOTE the term: "CONTENT"

27 posted on 06/20/2013 4:43:12 PM PDT by cookcounty (IRS = Internal Revenge Service.)
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To: cookcounty

The requests sent to FISA are all sign by DOJ / Holden If they rubber stamp or can be shopped count on Holden to do so or use any lie he has to to get his way!
The system only works if ALL are honorable. Holden has proven time and again he is not.


28 posted on 06/20/2013 4:48:47 PM PDT by hoosiermama (Obama: "Born in Kenya" Lying now or then!)
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To: SE Mom

So even in July 2009, Obama’s administration was using the term “US person.” I guess one’s citizenship means nothing to a globalist.


29 posted on 06/20/2013 4:48:54 PM PDT by Prince of Space (Be Breitbart, baby. LIFB.)
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To: P-Marlowe

FBI issue, and FBI is under Holder.


30 posted on 06/20/2013 5:27:36 PM PDT by expat2
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To: SE Mom; blueyon; LucyT; pax_et_bonum; autumnraine; maggief; Silentgypsy; thouworm; ...
So they used a sham of a 'legal' document to do illegal things but who pays for this? Add the 'judge' to the perp list.

Anyone wanting on or off this ping list, please advise. Thanks.


31 posted on 06/20/2013 6:14:15 PM PDT by MestaMachine (My caps work. You gotta earn them.)
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To: Bryan24
“He should have taken the documents for corroboration.”

Explain

“You don’t take your country’s secrets to a foreign government or media outlet.”

That is the safest thing to do when the secrets are so outrageous and politically damaging. Our media is completely in the tank for the fascists, if you haven't noticed. Many news stories huge in the foreign press are completely missing here. I'll bet every single piece of “news” that goes on the air is reviewed by at least 1 alphabet agency.

IMO, the bastards were ‘this’ close to turning the key on irreversible tyranny. The recent whistleblowers may have turned the tide. People got to see examples of tyranny first hand and many stopped doubting the true purpose of the 2nd Amendment. Snowden got EVERYONE to wake up...at least for now

32 posted on 06/20/2013 6:32:17 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga

You get the documentation needed to corroborate your claims.

You go to a lawyer and set up terms of release. If x-y-z happens and I am arrested and held incommunicado, release a-b-c documents to all 535 congressmen. Media is told that they will receive documents if Congress does not go public.

You then go to the Intelligence Committees and tell them that laws are being broken and explain the setup, without telling them who the lawyers and media members are. You don’t want to break the law, but the civil liberties of all Americans are being broken by illegal actions.

You can’t go to foreign governments or foreign media. That is traitorous. A bad as the mess is, it is a United States mess.

In the end, if you fell strongly enough about it, I guess you will do the time.


33 posted on 06/20/2013 7:07:58 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: prairiebreeze

marker


34 posted on 06/20/2013 7:51:46 PM PDT by prairiebreeze (Don't be afraid to see what you see. -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: SE Mom

Just occurred to me what the real reason is why the preezy wants to make sure everyone in the country has a phone, and it has nothing to do with altruism.


35 posted on 06/20/2013 7:51:51 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: Rad_J
This is prep for the embarrassing conversations that will be released shortly. Those conversations will prove that they didn’t even follow these loose standards and that they store content.

---the following from a comment of mine on another thread...

The thing is, some anonymous person/s could start publishing stuff on the internet claiming they had access to the NSA database.

The only way to disprove it would be to allow access to the real database. (even so, the NSA data could be altered..thus no way to ever be certain)

Phone call audio would be the most explosive data to publish. This audio can be gathered in many ways. The NSA would be fingered as the guilty party who originally gathered it since their reputation is totally shot.

Mega scandal.

36 posted on 06/20/2013 8:14:06 PM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: SE Mom

You know.... using companies like “Carbonite”... or “Lifelock”.... ultimately this just makes it easier for the Government to get what they want. I mean like with carbonite... they backup everyone’s computers. They can’t tell the NSA no.


37 posted on 06/20/2013 8:18:54 PM PDT by kjam22 (my newest music video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7gNI9bWO3s)
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To: Don Corleone
judges have signed off on broad orders which allow the NSA to make use of information "inadvertently" collected from domestic US communications without a warrant. "Inadvertently"...that's like "Unexpected"

I guess if I rob a bank and inadvertently take more than I intended, say $5 mil instead of $1 mil, then I get to make use of the $4 mil? What a sweet deal!

38 posted on 06/21/2013 3:21:39 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: SE Mom
"ERRORS CEASING TO BE DANGEROUS BE DANGEROUS WHEN IT IS PERMITTED FREELY TO CONTRAD..." click click {static}

 

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

39 posted on 06/21/2013 4:39:14 AM PDT by TArcher ("TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, governments are instituted among men" -- Does that still work?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

bttt


40 posted on 06/21/2013 5:36:35 AM PDT by SaveFerris (Be a blessing to a stranger today for some have entertained angels unaware)
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To: Bryan24

He would have been silenced. No doubt about it.

Are you ore bugged about the messenger, or what he revealed?


41 posted on 06/21/2013 6:27:42 AM PDT by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears (The Buck Stops Over There.)
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To: PATRIOT1876

“We have not so secret rules that govern our country. We call it the Constitution”

Boy, that takes me back. Those were great days, weren’t they?


42 posted on 06/21/2013 6:28:48 AM PDT by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears (The Buck Stops Over There.)
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To: babygene

Our enemies cannot be so stupid that they don’t already know we listen to them.


43 posted on 06/21/2013 12:37:33 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears

10% mad that he broke his oath of secrecy. 90% enraged that the government has gone WAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond what has been publicly said.

We’ve been lied to by the government. BADLY.


44 posted on 06/21/2013 2:56:37 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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