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Ministers refuse to mark Waterloo: Campaigners say Government do not want to offend France
Dail;yMail ^ | June 13, 2013 | Ian Drury

Posted on 06/13/2013 7:42:48 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana

Tt is often regarded as the British Army’s greatest military victory.

Led into battle by the Duke of Wellington, UK troops routed Napoleon at the Battle of Waterloo, a triumph ushering in almost a century of peace and stability in Europe.

But the Government is refusing to mark the battle’s 200th anniversary in 2015 amid suspicions it does not want to offend France.

SNIP

Brussels is spending at least £20million on commemorative events, including restoring the battlefield.

SNIP

James Morrow, secretary of Waterloo 200, ...said he was ‘disappointed’.

SNIP

‘The Belgian government has spent millions on events to commemorate the battle but we have been given zilch, zippo, nothing. I think it’s very disappointing.

‘The Battle of Waterloo was a milestone in European history which ended over 20 years of conflict in Europe.

‘We can’t let the 200th anniversary pass without marking it and learning lessons about why it was so important.’

SNIP

David Green, director of the Civitas think-tank, said: ...‘It appears to be ludicrous hyper-sensitivity.

‘Waterloo was a battle of the most immense importance. Britain was fighting a tyrant who had conquered Europe. It was a momentous moment that should be commemorated. We should be shouting it from the rooftops.’

In a message to Waterloo 200, the 8th Duke of Wellington said: ‘I am often asked whether we should not now, in these days of European unity, forget Waterloo and the battles of the past.

‘My reply is, history cannot be forgotten and we need to be reminded of the bravery of the thousands of men from many nations who fought and died in a few hours and why their gallantry and sacrifice ensured peace in Europe for 50 years.’

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: agincourt; crecy; dontmentionagincourt; dontmentioncrecy; edwardiii; england; france; godsgravesglyphs; henryv; history; napolean; waterloo; wellington
Full title: Ministers refuse to mark Waterloo: Campaigners say Government do not want to celebrate 200th anniversary in case they offend France

(Yes the grammar is wrong I just cut and pasted)

1 posted on 06/13/2013 7:42:48 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

Waterloo was fought a few miles south of Brussels on June 18, 2015.

Wellington described his own troops as ‘very weak and ill-equipped, and a very inexperienced staff’.

Britain and its allies had 68,000 men, and were joined by about 45,000 Prussians on the evening of the battle. The French had 72,000 troops.

Heavy rain had turned the battlefield into a swamp. The scale of casualties was staggering - around one in four men were killed.

But the victory brought about the final destruction of Napoleon’s army and the end of his bloody reign as dictator.


2 posted on 06/13/2013 7:44:19 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
But the Government is refusing to mark the battle’s 200th anniversary in 2015 amid suspicions it does not want to offend France.

Then I suppose St. Crispin's Day is off too.

3 posted on 06/13/2013 7:46:16 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Tennessee Nana
A painting of the Battle of Waterloo, which will celebrate its bicentennial in 2015.

The government has pledged little support to the occasion


5 posted on 06/13/2013 7:48:57 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: katana

Right now we are celebrating the 200th of the War of 1812 between the British in Canada and the Americans

Lots of reenacting of battles etc

No “offending” on either side

just commemorating what their ancestors did

Its history..

Methinks the Mosl;ems are involved in the “offending” somewhere...

Maybe if the Brits can prove Wellington read the koran...


6 posted on 06/13/2013 7:53:47 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

I figure Englands greatest victory was Blenheim.

Waterloo was a victory of allied armies against Napoleon, with England, and Belgium’s cookies being hauled out of the fire by Prussia.

Is Prussia offended?


7 posted on 06/13/2013 7:56:12 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Wellington won, but it was hardly a rout. He himself later called it “a damned near-run thing.”


8 posted on 06/13/2013 8:17:26 PM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Tennessee Nana

“Methinks the Mosl;ems are involved in the “offending” somewhere...”

Just tell them the Brits whipped the tar out of the descendants of Charles Martel /s;)


9 posted on 06/13/2013 8:19:18 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: Tennessee Nana

DAUPHIN

For the Dauphin,
I stand here for him: what to him from England?

EXETER

Scorn and defiance; slight regard, contempt,
And any thing that may not misbecome
The mighty sender, doth he prize you at.
Thus says my king; an’ if your father’s highness
Do not, in grant of all demands at large,
Sweeten the bitter mock you sent his majesty,
He’ll call you to so hot an answer of it,
That caves and womby vaultages of France
Shall chide your trespass and return your mock
In second accent of his ordnance.

Henry V Act 2 Scene 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKHihAPr2Rc


10 posted on 06/13/2013 8:21:36 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Tennessee Nana

Better to devote the attention to celebrating the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta.


11 posted on 06/13/2013 8:35:36 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Tennessee Nana

I suppose they didn’t mark the 70th aniversery of Operation Tourch last November for the same reaon.

The bastards RESISTED the allied invasion of North Africa.


12 posted on 06/13/2013 8:45:39 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

Operation Torch that is.


13 posted on 06/13/2013 8:46:23 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Tennessee Nana
Methinks the Moslems are involved in the “offending” somewhere...

Nahhh, the French get a might tetchy when reminded about their serial a** kickings courtesy of the British (and the Germans, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Russians, the Vietnamese, the Algerians, the ...). Oh, and the Canadians are pretty cool about the War of 1812 since, with the exception of a "sea" battle on Lake Erie, they essentially won.

14 posted on 06/13/2013 8:52:57 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: katana

the Canadians are pretty cool about the War of 1812 since,
____________________________________________

Nope there are things on every weekend etc

I get a schedule for the next few weeks months and news etc for reenactments both sides of the border in my online copy of The Loyalist Trail every week

heres some

Re-enactors from all over North America will descend upon Fort George in Niagara-On-The-Lake May 25-27 as they re-enact one of the pivotal events - The Battle of Fort George - in Niagara during the War of 1812. The weekend agenda here.

The Niagara 1812 Legacy Council announced its events for 2013, many to be held on the exact 200th anniversary of the actual event. Report from the Buffalo News.

Education information, (US-centric?) American history (forwarded by Beverley Corsini)

Emphasizing peace – not war – the key to selling 1812 Bicentennial wine to Americans

Medicine is making great advances all the time. Take a look at some of the remedies for common ailments form 200 years ago.

200 Years ago the Americans captured Fort York - Check out Canada History’s new video about it with historian Tim Compeau

Toronto artist Charles Pachter donates 11 paintings for Fort York visitor centre

Medal issued to commemorate the 150th Anniversary of the Battle of York (Toronto) #warof1812 APRIL 27, 1813 http://www.ontarioroots.com/images/misc/Toronto_BattleOfYork_Medal_Large.gif

As Andrew Jackson’s (Old Hickory) Tennessee Militia did some 200 years ago, a collection of determined volunteers are making their way northward along the length of the Natchez Trace.

Baltimore Commemorates A Trifecta Of Historic Events: War of1812, The Underground RailRoad, The US Civil War.

The 2013 Tall Ships Tour commemorating War of 1812 sails into Brockville for weekend of June 14 - 16. See the events planned for this big weekend - don’t miss them.

Tall Ships Tour information. List of Ports of call and dates.

Photos from the Havre de Grace War of 1812 Bicentennial Commemoration this weekend, commemorating the British Attack on May 3 1813.

‘Through the Perilous Fight’: An excerpt from the book on a pivotal time in the War of 1812 (attack on Baltimore and the Star Spangled banner)

A special edition of The Time Traveller Times features planned War of 1812 events along the t Lawrence this spring, summer and fall: Kingston, Battle of Crsyler’s Farm, Tall Ships Brockville, Spencerville Heritage Fair, and much more (6 pages)

Laura Secord’s historic walk immortalized in wilderness trail (to open June 22) and opera Laura’s Cow: The Legend of Laura Secord

Thousands expected to pour into Thorold for the Battle of Beaverdams commemoration on the weekend of June 22-24.

In the 200 years following the War of 1812, the Chesapeake Campaign became romanticized in tall tales and local legends. Authors of book “:Chesapeake Legends and Lore from War of 1812” search for the history behind the legends. Eastern Shore maritime museum tells story of the War of 1812 on the Chesapeake Bay

More photos from last weekend’s events at Havre de Grace

War of 1812 Education: The Battle of Beaver Dams: Uncommon Courage DVD
The Beaver Dams DVD and curriculum unit is ready to go! Initial copies are being distributed to schools in four different area school boards for use in classes in June. On June 22, the film will premiere at Thorold Ontario as part of the town’s Commemorative weekend (June 22-24) of the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Beaver Dams.
Visit Thorold on that weekend, see the final version of the film and take in the many excellent events planned. The DVD will be available to all interested parties, but there may be a nominal fee for the package, the money going to help establish a scholarship in the name of Alun Hughes a respected and inspirational member of the Thorold bicentennial Committee who passed away in May. Alun was a well known historian in the Niagara area and added immeasurably to the historical content of our film.
Copies of the DVD will also be available after the big weekend, free of charge. Coming soon will be a website where you can download a copy of the DVD/Curriculum/Research Notes
A play, The Whirlwind, will premiere at Thorold June 22-23 as part of the festivities. It will be performed at the Hamilton Fringe Festival between July 19 and 27.

Bicentennial of the Battle of Stoney Creek. Some photos from CBC. More from Radio Canada International. More events in Hamilton area this year.

Events marked Second Battle of Sackets Harbor’s bicentennial

Top scholars from the U.S., Canada and the United Kingdom will converge on the Naval Academy at Annapolis for a four-day symposium on the war of 1812.

For anyone interested in the American navy and the War of 1812, this page of topics will be of interest.

Get into it! “1812 dress making workshop” at Put-In-Bay on South Bass Island in Lake Erie south of Pelee Island.
________________________________________________

Next year we will be going to Ontario for the 200th of the burning of St Davids My 4th gg lost her house but the at least her barn was spared..


15 posted on 06/13/2013 9:38:42 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

Technically it wasn’t “just” the British Army - out of the 100,000 allied troops, only 25,000 were British.


16 posted on 06/14/2013 4:40:24 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Tennessee Nana
"methinks the Moslems...."

What is strange is that Napoleon was courting Islam (to rise against the British) -- a role the Brits took over after 1815

17 posted on 06/14/2013 4:42:30 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: katana

well, the French lost ever since they went Revolutionary...


18 posted on 06/14/2013 4:44:11 AM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Tennessee Nana

I thought it was the Prussians (Germans), who saved the day for the Brits at the end of the battle. The French feel that the Germans and Brits are teaming up again. Shhh! Don’t say anythink.


19 posted on 06/14/2013 5:16:36 AM PDT by Jabba the Nutt (.Are they stupid, malicious or evil?)
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To: Tennessee Nana

I would think that trying to not offend the French would be found offensive to the French.


20 posted on 06/14/2013 5:19:39 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Who will shoot Liberty Valence?)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Canada doesn’t have anything to be offended about - they kicked our butts when we invaded!


21 posted on 06/14/2013 5:19:44 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it gettingthe so hot?)
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To: Cronos

Consistently lost, yes. Except for a series of brilliant victories by a certain dwarfish Corsican genius. And even he managed to end up losing the wars after winning most of the battles. But Crécy, Poitiers, and Agincourt really stick in their craw.


22 posted on 06/14/2013 6:09:49 AM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: donmeaker

How ironic (I am being polite) that you talk about ‘England’ being saved by the Prussians, when the two most famous turning points of the battle for the British were from SCOTS: the heroic stand of the Scots Guards at Hougemont and the legendary charge of the Royal Scots Grays (when they stole the French ensign). Oh and Wellington was born in Ireland.

England and Britain/Great Britain/UK are NOT the same thing.


23 posted on 06/14/2013 8:53:56 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: Jabba the Nutt

Turned the battle, yes, saved no.

There are many instances that day of British victory, it may have ‘been a close run thing’, but the British were hardly ‘saved’. Or needing to be.


24 posted on 06/14/2013 8:55:42 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: Little Ray
Canada doesn't have anything to be offended about - they kicked our butts when we invaded!

Plus they made us take Detroit back. (Well, the Brits did anyway.)

25 posted on 06/14/2013 10:29:27 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Verginius Rufus

Hey, Detroit was great for a while. Never would have won WWII without Detroit.


26 posted on 06/14/2013 11:22:04 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it gettingthe so hot?)
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To: Little Ray
Never would have won WWII without Detroit.

Well, that's a consideration. On the other hand, the Cubs might have won the 1945 World Series.

(They lost to Detroit 4 games to 3.)

27 posted on 06/14/2013 1:18:35 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: nickcarraway; Cincinna

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Tennessee Nana.
Brussels is spending at least £20million on commemorative events, including restoring the battlefield... James Morrow, secretary of Waterloo 200, ...said he was 'disappointed... The Belgian government has spent millions on events to commemorate the battle but we have been given zilch, zippo, nothing. I think it's very disappointing. The Battle of Waterloo was a milestone in European history which ended over 20 years of conflict in Europe. We can't let the 200th anniversary pass without marking it and learning lessons about why it was so important.'
Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


28 posted on 06/14/2013 7:52:31 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: the scotsman

You are correct. My apologies.

I perhaps could have said “Great Britain”....

My recollection was that the English parliament had representatives from Scotland and Ireland at that time, but representation was far from uniform, with ‘rotten boroughs’ in the House of Commons and of course the mostly non-representative House of Lords.


29 posted on 06/14/2013 10:22:57 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

That ok, apologies from me if I was a bit curt and rude.


30 posted on 06/15/2013 6:56:57 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

Scotland has its own parliament now.

We all have some quirks. The charge of the Scots Greys was indeed wonderful.


31 posted on 06/15/2013 8:29:33 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: SunkenCiv

My understanding is that Wellington returned to the battlefield in later years and was offended that it wasn’t the same. The sunken road that acted like a moat against the French cavalry had been filled in, using dirt from the edge of the hill that protected his men from the French Artillery.

If they restore the battlefield to its previous condition, it would be a service to History, and somewhere, Wellington would softly smile.

If they do it wrong Wellington would be upset that they put their foot in it.


32 posted on 06/15/2013 8:35:01 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: donmeaker

That would be too bad for Wellington — Napoleon was used up in his Russian campaign (dropped nearly 500,000 on that campaign, absolutely mind-boggling), and his former cowed allies turned on him. If that hadn’t happened, Wellington wouldn’t have been able to join battle.


33 posted on 06/15/2013 8:52:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: katana
The problem with including Agincourt in that is that we put current day nationalisms on top of medieval kingly battles. Until John, for 200 years the English kings spoke French, were holders of vast lands in France and later with Henry V contended for the French throne

This was more a part of the wider battle for the Angevin dynasty -- this dynasty came close to ruling much of Europe in the 1300s -- one even became king of Hungary and Poland.

34 posted on 06/15/2013 9:26:45 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: Timber Rattler
Wellington won, but it was hardly a rout. He himself later called it “a damned near-run thing.”

Seems to me it was "a damned near-run thing" that turned into a rout.

35 posted on 06/15/2013 9:31:50 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (John Boehner and the Republican Party: A wholly-owned subsidiary of Democrats, Inc.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Except Waterloo occurred after Nappy had already been exiled, and returned. The losses in Russia were years ago, and there were many cohorts (each annual class of men is considered a cohort) since that happened that were able to replenish the French Army. About half the Grande Armee were not French. Spanish and Portuguese soldiers were particularly prone to desertion.

Wellington had already fought the French in Spain.


36 posted on 06/16/2013 12:36:54 AM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Cronos
All true enough. I'm in the middle of reading an interesting history of the Plantagenet Dynasty. Henry II's territories on the continent amounted to a small empire including about half of modern day France.

I would respectfully argue though that while the British nobles at the battle certainly possessed French ancestry and some residual identification with the culture (and were keen on getting their ancestral lands back) the common foot soldiers and archers were as English as the Thames. Their unfortunate opponents did not believe they were fighting fellow Frenchmen and it is celebrated in England as a miraculous English victory. Shakespeare (and Olivier in 1944) certainly played some part in making that so.

PS: I enjoy reading your posts. European history was not my focus in college. Middle East was.

37 posted on 06/16/2013 11:25:28 AM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: donmeaker

The Russian campaign was in 1812 and 1813; he was barely able to extricate himself in the east, and returned to France outnumbered 3:1. He was forced out of power in 1814 (one year, not years later), and returned from his first exile in 1815. In the space of three months the allies brought their armies back into theater, Napoleon threw together one last army, and went on the attack against a numerically superior enemy that was already dug in. He wasn’t able to dislodge them before the Prussian army arrived on his flank.


38 posted on 06/16/2013 1:18:01 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Which is why he should have been executed to begin with.

ditto all such tyrants that follow


39 posted on 06/16/2013 1:31:26 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Who will shoot Liberty Valence?)
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To: katana
you are correct about the common foot soldiers (and Henry's most effective weapon, the Welsh long-bow men)

I distrust Shakespeare's version of the events -- it's good literature but bad history. He wrote at a time when the concept of a nation was full-blown while during the Plantagenet wars the concept of the nation was not so distinct.

40 posted on 06/16/2013 7:10:31 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros>Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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To: SunkenCiv

But Napoleon had at the Battle of Nations another army of 400,000 men in 1813 immediately after his battle in Russia.

Certainly Russia happened first. Certainly his defeat at Waterloo happened afterwards. I don’t agree that it was cause and effect. Other things happened in between that hurt him more proximately. His need to divert forces away from Waterloo to suppress a royalist insurrection were at least as important as the losses in Russia, that were, at least half of his losses were not French at all, but allied forces.


41 posted on 06/16/2013 7:50:42 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Cronos
Historical plays, movies, etc. are almost never even modestly accurate history and most examples are far worse than Henry V. Braveheart for some reason comes immediately to mind.

Writers take famous names and elements of stories, throw in a dash of popular sentiment and their own prejudice, and voila! Historical drama. Shakespeare knew his audience (including a certain Tudor queen) and just did his best to please them. And his best was very good (drama).

42 posted on 06/16/2013 9:23:04 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: the scotsman

Wellington may have been born in Ireland, but he considered himself to be an Englishman. He once responded to the accusation that he was ‘Irish’, by saying that ‘Being born in a stable does not make one a horse’.

Of course, this was back in the days when being English was considered to be a good thing, nowadays English people seem to fall over themselves to declare themselves to be something else if they were were born in one of the ‘Celtic’ countries or one their parents was.


43 posted on 08/04/2013 1:53:09 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: katana

You are so right. I know several people who get their “history” from The History Channel, other TV, and movies and then refuse to believe that some other point of view based upon actual research could possibly be correct.

Slightly off topic, but I am highly offended when twits, Martin Sheen as Robert E. Lee and Matt Damon as private Ryan come immediately to mind, are cast in those roles. I guess that’s why they call them actors.


44 posted on 08/04/2013 2:12:29 AM PDT by RushLake (Nothing can bring you peace but the triumph of principles. (Emerson))
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

Oh, I know Wellington’s dislike of Irish birth, and I quote the famous stable remark myself. I was just making a point re the ‘English’ victory at Waterloo. As an Ayrshire lad, I am acutely aware of the battle, as the legendary Charles Ewart was a Kilmarnock boy.


45 posted on 08/04/2013 6:46:32 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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