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What a Disaster… Obamacare Will Cost a Family $20,000 per Year
Gateway Pundit ^ | June 3, 2013 | Jim Hoft

Posted on 06/03/2013 9:41:07 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Someone please answer this very important question:

Is the “tax” that made ObamaCare constitutional (as Chief Justice Roberts defined it) an income tax, or just a tax?

If it’s the latter, it may be that Chief Justice Roberts decision indicates he is a very sly fellow indeed and not the traitor he’s been portrayed as.

51 posted on 06/03/2013 11:05:47 AM PDT by nesnah
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To: fwdude
You ask how did we become a country of idiots? What is the root of this infection? Please allow me to hazard a guess:

Charles Darwin’s Theory of Evolution (often referred to as The Theory of Survival of the Fittest) describes the positive effects resulting from any “pressure” on an animal species that removes the least fit among the species and allows only the most fit of the species to reproduce. Most of us are well aware of this “Survival of the Fittest” theory, but few are aware that Darwin also makes mention of the negative effects resulting from unlimited reproduction of a species’ least fit when the weak, the lazy, and the stupid are left unchecked.

We like to think otherwise, but our species, Homo sapiens, isn’t that long out of the trees and the same laws of nature that affect all of God’s creatures apply equally to us. If we were to observe any other species that had been allowed to reproduce without limitations, we would know immediately what the consequences will be.

Whenever the weak; lazy; and stupid of a species is allowed to reproduce unimpeded by predators that feed off the weak; lazy; and stupid, they soon outnumber the strong, productive, and intelligent. When the weak/lazy/stupid dominate the gene pool, the entire population becomes weak/ lazy/stupid, and then the population collapses.

In the past, when these collapses occurred within human populations, they have been referred to as a “Malthusian Collapse.” Thomas Malthus, a Nineteenth Century Economist, thought these collapses were caused simply because past civilizations had reached a point where human populations could no longer produce sufficient food supplies to feed themselves, but he never pinned down the exact reason for these food shortages.

We now think these collapses of past human civilizations have occurred whenever the unproductive weak/lazy/stupid greatly outnumber the strong/productive/intelligent of the population. In other words, the majority of the population becomes too lazy to perform the work necessary to provide for themselves and what’s left of the strong/productive/intelligent refuses to continue to do it for them.

These collapses have occurred at frequent intervals throughout human history, and Western Civilization is, in my humble opinion, currently on the cusp of one of these collapses.

52 posted on 06/03/2013 11:15:48 AM PDT by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: fwdude; diamond6

Communism and the removal of God and His holy commandments.
That doesn’t answer the fundamental “why” of how this happened. WHY did communism get a foothold in the children of the “Greatest Generation?” WHY did God’s commandments get trampled?

I’m writing from the protestant Christian viewpoint, diamond6 might have some thoughts from the Catholic perspective.

The (protestant) church in the late 1800s, early 1900s became weak and corrupted. It split into the “liberal social justice” camp - who basically rejected scripture for the most part- influenced by the German “higher critical” movement, and the fundamentalists who became mostly interested in evangelism, saving souls, but pulled out of the institutions of society, their salt lost it’s “saltiness” and they “hid their light under a bushel”. They decided that areas like education, politics and journalism were too “dirty” to bother with, and just focused salvation and the afterlife. We are supposed to be “discipling all NATIONS”, not just evangelising individuals. (Both are important and shouldn’t neglect either responsibility.)

The biggest effect was that the true, fundamental Christians pulled out of universities, colleges and schools. (We NEVER should have given schools over from church control to government control). John Dewey was a big Fabian socialist and his influence on the public schools was enormous. The liberal social justice Christians still had a lot of influence and were very involved in these “pillars” of society, and became the “useful idiots” in handing over the reins to the socialists.

The teaching universities - (that set the agenda for what public school teachers would learn) became very communistic/socialistic. So now you can hardly even find private school teachers who can think clearly about what liberty really means, what a free country is, what are really rights and what are “wants”... etc. because they were raised in public schools and went to public universities. So we’ve had several generations now, and that kind of thinking is almost lost.

At the same time, the socialists were working very hard to morally corrupt our society, because as the family fabric tears and disintegrates, then the government steps in to be “Dad”. Children are not taught morality and reponsibility in the home - they are handed over to government schools to be socialized.

This has been Satan’s agenda since the beginning of time, but as long as Christian churches are strong and people are truly God fearing and believe and OBEY scripture, then it doesn’t matter what kind of corrupting influence is “out there” - it wont take effect. Unfortunately, the churches and pastors are weak and they have been weak for a long, long time - so people are vulnerable to any false teaching.

Read the book of Jude in the scripture - written 2000 years ago but it could have been written this morning.

That’s why I keep pounding the drum that if we ever get free again, whether it’s thru financial collapse and chaos, secession, or a civil war, one of the first things that any new free society needs to put in their social compact or new constitution is to OUTLAW government schools althogether. Force parents to be reponsible for private schooling/homeschooling/internet schooling their kids - or at the very most allow small communities to create a charter for just their community to go in together to create a school, but only if everyone commits unanimously at the beginning as to what will be taught. And make it illegal, written in the constitution, for any “government” to have any sayso at all in what schools teach. Give that responsibility for a child’s education back to the parents and families.

53 posted on 06/03/2013 11:16:59 AM PDT by boxlunch (Conservative, reformed protestant Christian, homeschooling mom)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

They’ll pay the fine.
When someone gets sick they’ll buy a policy.
The insurer will not be allowed to reject their “pre existing condition”.
Tens of millions will follow suit and the system will collapse.
Hello, Single Payer

54 posted on 06/03/2013 11:20:50 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: fwdude


55 posted on 06/03/2013 11:32:14 AM PDT by donhunt (Certified and proud "Son of a Bitch".)
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To: fwdude; DJ Taylor

Well, I guess you got exact polar opposite reasons for the “why” of our country of idiots between DJ Taylor and myself. I would submit for your thought though, that socialism, communism and either liberal Christianity, enlightenment thinking and atheism tend to go along together. The only time there has ever been a long lasting stable free society, is when that society was made up of majority God fearing Christians. The contrast between the French Revolution and our American revolution was just one of many examples to compare and contrast.

Malthusian thinking was one of the grounding principles of Naziism, so I would certainly not go there and say we need to believe in Malthusianism to correct our society’s problems. Malthusianism would promote letting the weak and defenseless die off, whereas traditional Christianity would defend them, while educating our children in Christian principles from scripture.

Well, as I said, you received two polar opposite opinions. But I would say, whatever you think is the root of our problems will inspire you toward very, very different paths of correction.

56 posted on 06/03/2013 11:36:17 AM PDT by boxlunch (Conservative, reformed protestant Christian, homeschooling mom)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
it kicks in as Ubama leaves office and takes over as Secretary-General of the United Nations?

I don't think Obama has the stomach to fight off all those REAL Third World despotic dictators who want the job.

57 posted on 06/03/2013 11:40:20 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: chris37
In two years the fine will exceed the cost of the insurance.

Is that in the law? Because for damned sure no Republican is going to vote for that fix.

Besides you only need a few months to Cloward-Piven the system into oblivion.

58 posted on 06/03/2013 11:41:37 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Lou L
If so, rather than go SP, couldn't Congress just repeal Obamacare? Wouldn't that be less painful?

And go back to what? A bunch if insurance companies that have just filed Chapter 7? It will be the Point of No Return. The options will be government insurance or none. And frankly most of our population does not have the courage for the latter.

59 posted on 06/03/2013 11:45:06 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Apparently this is the law as of now-

“Starting in 2014, most people will have to have insurance or pay a “penalty deducted from your taxable income”. For individuals, penalty starts at $95 a year, or up to 1% of income, whichever is greater, and rise to $695, or 2.5% of income, by 2016.

For families the tax will be $2,085 or 2.5% percent of household income, whichever is greater. The requirement can be waived for several reasons, including financial hardship or religious beliefs. If the tax would exceed 8% of your income you are exempt, also some religious groups are exempt. That tax cannot exceed the cost of a “bronze plan” bought on the exchange.

While some states, including Alabama, Wyoming and Montana, have passed laws to block the requirement to carry health insurance, those provisions do not override federal law.

Also it’s important to note that even if one does elect to pay the fine, one will still not have insurance, thus it is essentially money being paid for nothing, much like all other taxes.

60 posted on 06/03/2013 11:52:46 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Grampa Dave
Every single Republican in Congress voted against this Obamacare.

I can't tell you how many times our local Pravda Comments section has had posts by moonbats insisting that Republicans voted for the abomination also.

I used to regularly refute it until I was banned from posting there for committing the felony of Open and Gross Conservatism...:-)

So the fiction is out there in the ether, and is actually accepted now as fact by the average moronic, mouth-breathing voter.

61 posted on 06/03/2013 11:54:44 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The ObamaCare Fiasco is Surreal. It's the Twilight Zone of Politics/Government come to life in front of our very eyes.

While the vast majority of we working class slubs go about our business making ends meet and in the process keeping this country afloat, the Political Class of Unaccoutable Elite ASS CLOWNS dream up some nice little Utopian Fantasy Scheme that sounds sooooo intelligent around a tax payer purchased $20,000 Mahogany table in their $1000 tax payer purchased Leather swivel chairs, only to find out it is unworkable in the Real World.

But that won't matter at all. The chaos, the confusion, the frustration that they create will never seep into their insular Tax Payer Funded Worlds.

On our dime, they have ensconced themselves in Plush Palaces, built moats, hired guards and pulled up the draw bridges. They will continue the assault on Traditional American Values and the Constitution until they achieve their goal...a radically changed and weakened America.

62 posted on 06/03/2013 11:56:41 AM PDT by Awgie (truth is always stranger than fiction)
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To: F15Eagle
Can’t wait to see the looks on the faces of a few Obama voters.

Nah. Most of them will simply line up for free Medicaid or a huge federal subsidy. They don't call them the Free Sh!t Army for nothing.

63 posted on 06/03/2013 12:07:00 PM PDT by Gritty (Our Government is erecting a panopticon state that sees everything, regulates everything-Mark Steyn)
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To: Gritty

You are correct. This has very little impact on the entitlement army.

64 posted on 06/03/2013 12:07:33 PM PDT by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: nascarnation
The Entitlement Army, just like the Very Wealthy are insulated from economic swings.
65 posted on 06/03/2013 12:16:52 PM PDT by Awgie (truth is always stranger than fiction)
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To: Awgie

At least until the markets choke on all the Baraqqi/Bernanke minibucks.

66 posted on 06/03/2013 12:17:48 PM PDT by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: nascarnation

At $1,666.66666666666 per month, a whole bunch of people are going to have to apply for housing, and a free phone!

The only thing obama care was intended to do was to find a way to keep your tax return, and add more to it.

Remember, Zero’s prime concern is the middle class; how to rape them, starve them, confiscate their property, own their kids and bury them before they turn 65 so that they can’t get paid all the social security they paid in, nor can they save for their old age because zero wants to own their retirement also.

Do you see where this is going now? Bye Bye middle class. He’s signing your death warrants even as we speak, and you don’t even have a right to defend yourselves.

67 posted on 06/03/2013 12:19:52 PM PDT by PrairieLady2
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To: PrairieLady2

***** “and you don’t even have a right to defend yourselves” *****

I don’t? News to me.


68 posted on 06/03/2013 12:42:32 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (Truth is the new pornography)
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To: chris37

Because ObamaCare doesn’t allow insurance companies to take into account previously existing medical conditions, so you will be able to wait practically until you are in the ER to buy insurance...

69 posted on 06/03/2013 1:25:39 PM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it gettingthe so hot?)
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To: Little Ray

If you do not mind throwing money into the black hole of a yearly fine, that is.

Plus, just speaking from experience, the heart attack I had came on mighty quick. When it did, I had no time to phone the insurance agent. It was get to the hospital or die, then pay.

But having said that, personally I think I’d rather expire than be forced by this government to buy what they tell me to buy. I just really do not care to obey them.

70 posted on 06/03/2013 1:45:16 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: All

Why would anyone buy insurance? You join up when you get sick, and cancel after you are billed. LIFE is a preexisting condition!

71 posted on 06/03/2013 3:23:26 PM PDT by Jimmah
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To: Lou L

“That seems to be the default answer, but how exactly would we automatically cross-over to SP? Wouldn’t Congress (as the health system is crumbling), be forced to at least write new legislation as such? If so, rather than go SP, couldn’t Congress just repeal Obamacare? Wouldn’t that be less painful?”

Your post indicates you think that CONgress members actually care if something is painful to us or not. I would suggest that they don’t. The only reason they even pretend to care is votes.
Some Dems fell on their swords for Obamacare. The Dems are committed to it. Once it crumbles, the misery will be widespread, but somewhat uniform. And that is socialism, shared misery. So voters will be ticked off, but the low information types will be angry in the same way you get angry when it rains on a picnic... angry but powerless and accepting.
So, a big turnover in CONgress to Republican? No. The Dems will tell the low information types that Obamacare is a mess because Republicans wouldn’t allow single payer. The Dems will then push for a revamp to a single payer system. The Dems will also tell the low information types that Republicans will take away the “gains” and make things worse. The palace guard media will support this.

That’s the playbook, watch it happen.

72 posted on 06/04/2013 6:46:35 AM PDT by brownsfan (Behold, the power of government cheese.)
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To: brownsfan
Your post indicates you think that CONgress members actually care if something is painful to us or not.

I was hoping that my post reflected more a disbelief that a majority of Americans would finally catch on and see this for what it is. I think there was a certain amount of winking and nodding with Democrat voters--figuring that everthing would eventually turn out well.

But there will be a "rubber meets the road" moment, where all will feel this. And that includes the people defending it today! And it will be painful, maybe even more so to the low-info voter. And I suppose it will be interesting to see if the GOP stands up and defends itself, and offers a different course...there will be a very brief opportunity to do so.

Shared misery. God help us.

73 posted on 06/04/2013 7:00:23 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Lou L

“Shared misery. God help us.”

We, as a nation, have turned away from Him. Given that, I don’t expect that He’ll be saving us from ourselves.

It is the fall of a nation.

74 posted on 06/04/2013 7:12:08 AM PDT by brownsfan (Behold, the power of government cheese.)
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To: musicman

Sorry ‘bout that. Shoulda looked at whom you were addressing. Yes, it makes perfect sense.

75 posted on 06/10/2013 9:52:19 PM PDT by jackibutterfly (Life is short. Smile while you still have teeth. :-))
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To: Buckeye McFrog
They’ll pay the fine. When someone gets sick they’ll buy a policy. The insurer will not be allowed to reject their “pre existing condition”. Tens of millions will follow suit and the system will collapse. Hello, Single Payer

If you go back to the GM bailout and the destruction of Contract Law, i.e. the dealerships and bond holders getting the shaft with this new form of Bankruptcy and the Unions making out like bandits, it was the precursor for all this madness.

No one see's all the "Contracts" that Obama has destroyed.

I.E., those mentioned and things like the "McDonalds" healthcare type policies, gone, College student high deductible plans, gone, All student loans absconded through Obamacare, gone, HSA's eventually will not meet the qualified plan menu, they will be gone. All these "Contracts" and their availability gone.

When you get health Insurance, it is a contract, how can a Government impose this removal of pre-exisiting conditions without actuarially having to raise premiums to the moon because you have no idea what risk you are assuming. It takes what was a business, and forces them to become a charity that may break even.

Yes, single payer and the pile of suckage that is the Canadian and British System come here. What sucks even more is they come to Michigan for some reason ( it maybe the number that came here as contract auto engineers ) to pay cash to get the health care they need that their Fubar'd socialized systems don't provide. When the health care system collapes here, where do they go for a blow off valve, since we are that valve now? Nevermind them, where do we go?

76 posted on 07/01/2013 2:48:38 AM PDT by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks.....)
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