Boy Scouts-Mormon bond remains intact

Daily Herald ^ | May 24 2013 | AP

[WilliamIII]

SALT LAKE CITY -- When the Boy Scouts of America began a discussion earlier this year about lifting its ban on gays, some speculated it could lead to the severing of ties with the Mormon church that goes back 100 years.

Those predictions ended up being off the mark.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints threw its support behind the new policy voted on Thursday by the Boy Scouts of America that opens the door for gay youth to join the ranks, while continuing to ban gay adult Scout leaders.

[Little Bill]

Sept 4th Crossed Muddy Creek and traveled 20 miles late in the evening forded the Platte again for the last time. We are always up at daybreak preparing to start at 5 . We meet the wagons at Deer Creek with supplies from the valley. There were 5 wagons, one for each company with 1000 lbs of flour in them.

One thing to remember that the people in this company were the poorest of the poor from Scotland. My GGrandmothers Father died of Cholera on this trip, mother had died in Scotland, and she was adopted by an Aunt who also died, in Weber canyon.

My Grandmothers family emigrated by ox wagon and were well supplied, camped with a wagon train headed for Kali who lost 240 people, they lost 27. Don't believe the movies, going West was hard and often fatal no matter what your Religion was.

[reaganaut]

I’m a historian, I never believe movies. LOL. It was a hard trip regarless of religion but the LDS were especially hard pressed regarding supplies.

IIRC around 1852 is when Young insisted that the immigrants supply their own treks and I know many who the church supplied were forced to ‘pay the church back’ for the immigration costs and then some.

I am currently working on transcribing journals of a missionary to Dakota/Nebraska from the period.

[Little Bill]

The Perpetual Immigration Fund? My GGrandfather was President of the Birmingham Mission when they finally got their act together.

It was established to help people emigrate and by repaying that help they could help others emigrate.

You have to remember that most of the converts in the UK were VERY POOR, my Grandmothers family were an exception.

There were more Mormons in the UK at that time than the States about 3 to 1. I think that the US got the best of the bargain despite the controversies over religion when I read the accomplishments of some of my family in the Genealogies.

[ejonesie22]

And yet...

[Elsie]

..The LDS Church will continue to grow and thrive...

by pushing heresy?

How strange.

[Elsie]

Okay - that is your opinion; we have our opinions.

No; it is FACT.

Why would YOU even ATTEMPT to claim it was mere 'opinion'?

[MHGinTN]

Hmmm, seems that inability to tell fact from opinion is rife in Mormonism. The AFCTS spoke loudly. Your effort to spin the facts as mere opinions is quite telling. Are you a Boys Scouts troop leader by chance, too?

[Elsie]

Do you choose to accept the lies of your 'church' over historical documents?

---

The following are the LYING images that MORMONism has produced, KNOWING that they represent something FALSE!!

 

 

   

BR>

---

"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

---

"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

---

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

---

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

---

"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

---

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

---

Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

---

"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

---

---

[Elsie]

Whut wuz on them thar plates???

[Elsie]

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...

only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

---

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

---

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

---

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Tennessee Nana]

I know you all feel you have firsthand knowledge, but as an active member and church employee I have firsthand knowledge that no person who exhibits same sex behavior can hold membership in this church. It is not in line with Jesus Christ’s teachings and it is plainly written in the bible.
______________________________________

Adultery “is not in line with Jesus Christ’s teachings and it is plainly written in the Bible” not to do it but that doesnt stop the Mormons from practicing adultery as their “first principle” of their religion, and necessary to become a god and to be “atoned”

and from still having it as their tenet in their religious writings..d&c 132

and from refraining to denounce and excommunicate their 2nd “prophet” Brigham Young because he said they would be “damned” if they even ceased to practice that “sex behavior”

BTW The Christian Bible places adultery and homosexuality on the same level.. both are crimes against God and “not in line with Jesus Christ’s teachings”

so whether polygamy or gay marriage...DO NOT DO IT...

and dont teach others to do it either...

IOW nixay on Mormonism and its deviant sex requirements..

[Tennessee Nana]

Homosexuals cannot hold membership in the church
________________________________________

Maybe only maybe

but we do know that adulterers can...

and they are also elected to the state senate and the legislature in Utah by fellow Mormons who know their sexual deviant living arrangements but give them a big fat pass...

Oh noez...

[Tennessee Nana]

Are you guys/gals forgetting about the LDS Church’s support for Prop 8?
_________________________________________

Not a bit of it kid...

but that has nothing to do with this thread...

the Mormons had to have something to occupy their time since their fair haired boy Willard had been beaten by the big bad apostate Senator McCain..

so they looked around for something that would pass as “busy work”

and lo and behold, the Baptists had been working for years in California to pass a law against gay marriage...

the legislation wasnt quite ready and 2008 was not the year to try it but what the hey who cared it would do as a cover...

(and make the Willard the “moderate progressive” (his own words) seem “conservative” and the Mormons along with him)

so the Mormons muscled into the Baptists project andf took over insisting on throwing the raw material out into the winds of chance...

They werent intending to really help the “gentile” Christians, or pass any legislation, they just wanted to hide and have a cover...

anything but be exposed as refusing to help McCain get elected And beat a “black man”

Yes kid, the Mormons threw MILLIONS and many man hours at California knowin g that Prop 8 couldnt pass as is or if it did squeak by it was doomed to be overturned i nb the courts...

The Mormons wrestled the projust from the quite capable Christians and destroyed the carteful work of years...

The whole aim was to avoid helping McCain get elected and beat their Mormon guy to the White House...

Shades of George Romney who in 1964 taught the Mormons how to stomp on the Republican and aid the Democrat...

and that dear kiddies is the rest of the story...

[Tennessee Nana]

And that campaign was successful - in California, no less.
_______________________________________________

No kid it was not successful...

It was a bust just like your Joey Smith and his new invented unBiblical religion...

The ormons never intended for Prop 8 to succeed...it was justy busy w3ork...

Just like Joey Smith never intended for his new religion to flourish...

he just wanted women, wealth and power...

for his lifetime...

and thats all he got...

plus the usual 6 foot of dirt...

[MacNaughton]

31 asnd then there was the gay guy who ran Willard’s campaign last year...

Please identify him. I remember he was pressured into removing his foreign policy advisor during the campaign who was an open homosexual.

[IWONDR]

“If gay marriage becomes legal expect them to have a revelation allowing it in their ‘sacred’ temples.”

gay marriage is already legal in a number of states.

[IWONDR]

“Is this the Mormon subculture? Do Alpha males have multiple wives while Beta males have sex with each other?”

a great line. possibly all the marriageable females are taken in the FLDS community. which leaves the less than alpha FLDS males slim to none pickens. doesn’t this relate somehow [not the homosexual aspect] to the lost boys situation among the polygamous FLDS community?

[narses]

+

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Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

[IWONDR]

“their gods put out their collective middle fingers to Christianity to check the political atmosphere and change directions as needed...”

Nana reverting to form, expressing her “true” Christian attitude.

“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.” Good Luck, Nana et al.

[MacNaughton]

50 I've seen several comments on the many BSA/homo threads about how churches will no longer be involved with a homo organization. My thought when I read them: 'but what if the churches themselves are already pro-homo?' I'm sure there will be plenty of homo churches to host the now-homo BSA.

There will be 7 months before the new membership policy goes into effect. Lots of time for denominations to make up their minds on which way they will break ...

According to the 2012 BSA Report to the Nation, 63% of all youth registered in Scouting units are in units chartered to religious institutions. Below is the list of denominations and their % of boys ...

The churches in blue are the denominations which have spoken out AGAINST BSA's new membership policy to accept open homosexual youth.

The churches in red are the denominations which have spoken up FOR BSA's new membership policy to accept open homosexual youth or they ordain open homosexuals and may/may not marry homosexual couples.

The churches in pink are the denominations which have said they will probably SUPPORT BSA's new membership policy to accept open homosexual youth.

1. LDS 26.2%
2. UMC 22.1%
3. Catholic Church 16.6%
4. Presbyterian Church (PC-USA, PCA, others) 7.6%
5. Lutheran Church (ELCA, LC-MS, LC-WS) 7.1%
6. Baptist Churches (SBC and all others) 6.6%
7. Episcopal Church 2.5%
8. United Church of Christ/ Congregational 2.3%
9. Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 2.1%
10. Community Churches 2.0%
11. Church of Christ 0.9%
12. Evangelical/independent churches 0.5%
13. Church of God 0.3%
14. Church of the Nazarene 0.3%
15. Reformed Church in America 0.2%
16. Jewish synagogues and centers 0.2%
17. Church of the Brethren 0.2%
18. African Methodist Episcopal 0.1%
19. The Salvation Army 0.1%
20. Islam, Muslim, Masjid 0.1%
21. Assemblies of God 0.1%
22. Christian Methodist Episcopal Church 0.0%
23. Community of Christ 0.1%
24. Pentecostal Churches 0.1%
25. Other churches 1.5%