NRA tactics: Take no prisoners

WaPo ^ | 5/19/13 | Scott Higham & Sari Horowitz

[jboot]

If any politician, no matter how conservative, no matter how long they have been an ally and no matter how they may have previously voted decides that lawfully owned guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens are a problem, I want them fired. Canned. On the curb with their sh*t in a cardboard box. Since my “voice” and my vote counts for exactly squat in modern America this is what I pay NRA dues for. It is money well spent.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"meanwhile they support some awful Democrats"

Name one? If you say Harry Reid, then I know you don't know what you are talking about. They have never endorsed Harry Reid. He has never had an A+ rating. He was the subject of one article in their magazines when he was instrumental in getting funding for a huge public shooting range in Nevada. The article was about it's opening and what it took to get it done. Harry Reid was not the main focus of the article. Harry Reid has courted the NRA, it's not the other way around. Sure, they have worked with him to get pro gun bills passed, but that's what you do to get your agenda moved forward. You work with the senate leader.

[C. Edmund Wright]

First, why are you such an NRA sycophant? I largely support the NRA, but not blindly and not totally.

Second, people in NV assure me they did endorse Reid - though I don’t live there and do not know.

Third, they support a lot of Democrats, which is always awful, because any elected Democrats mean awful Democrats like Pelosi get more power.

[jjotto]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/28/nra-declines-endorse-reid-nevada-senate-race/

[C. Edmund Wright]

Well it's good that they didn't officially endorse. Then again, they allowed this to be known, which is tacit endorsement: from the article: Meanwhile, Reid's campaign manager, Brandon Hall, noted that the NRA has donated to Reid's campaign and not to Angle's during the current election cycle.

[jjotto]

Yes. I’d call it moral cowardice by the NRA, although one could make a case that it was an attempt to retain future influence with Reid that might prove crucial.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"First, why are you such an NRA sycophant? I largely support the NRA, but not blindly and not totally."

Please don't label me. I support them about 99% of the time, because about 99% of the time, they are right. I criticized them heavily on this forum when they failed to join the fight against the campaign finance reform bill because they received a special carve out. Their excuse was that they are not a first amendment organization and that they were being exempted in the bill. However, it is the duty of all special interest groups to protect the first amendment, no matter what your particular group's aim is.

"Second, people in NV assure me they did endorse Reid - though I don’t live there and do not know."

So more people ignorant on the NRA bolster your argument? If you were actually a member of the NRA and read their magazines, you would know that Harry Reid got a B rating and they did not come out and endorse or support him in his last campaign. If you were an informed person on this issue, you would have criticized them for not coming out and more forcefully supporting Sharon Angle who had an A rating, but no federal legislative record. That combined with him being leader of the Senate caused them to not more forcefully support Angle. On that, I would agree with you.

"Third, they support a lot of Democrats, which is always awful, because any elected Democrats mean awful Democrats like Pelosi get more power."

They are not a supporter of the Republican party. Thank God for that!!! They are a supporter of the second amendment. Because of the way they do business, they are the one thing that stands in the way of people like Obama giving us an assault weapons ban, even when they have majorities in the house and Senate like he did in 2009 and 2010. If they just blindly supported Republicans like country club Republicans, we would probably have a lot more gun laws right now.

What I don't like on this forum is when people criticize the NRA and are not members of the NRA and have no idea about the issues they speak on and why they do what they do.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Lastly, may I say. If we had a national organization for Medical Care freedom like we do for firearms freedom, we wouldn’t be staring at Obamacare right now. No matter what the democratic majorities were in 2009 and 2010.

[C. Edmund Wright]

You clearly are emotionally invested in them, beyond normal discourse....clearly. That’s fine, but I had to clean your spittle off my screen before I could read your post.

Now having said that, if YOU actually knew more, you’d know that the NRA gave money to Reid but not to Angle, which is an “un official” endorsement of a sort.

If you weren’t so frothed up, you’d also know that I never said they should support all Republicans, but I did, and do stand by, the case that they should never support a Democrat. More elected Democrats is ALWAYS 100% of the TIME BAD NEWS for gun owners, something that has escaped the NRA’s brilliant leaders.

And, FTR, we’ve been NRA members in our family for years - and also GOA, and I think GOA is far more philosophically sound, though much much smaller and certainly not as effective. I wish the ideas of the GOA would merge with the size of the NRA.....

[C. Edmund Wright]

I wish we did have such an organization, but it’s an apples and oranges comparison. But now that you mention it, the NRA is guilty of some of the same bi partisan bullsh-t the various medical associations are...just not to the same degree....

[C. Edmund Wright]

Yes. I’d call it moral cowardice by the NRA, although one could make a case that it was an attempt to retain future influence with Reid that might prove crucial

It's both, but its a flawed concept and worthy of being criticized - especially by those who generally support what the NRA does - which is me. And frankly, I think it's naive to think that you can really retain influence with a rattlesnake...because at the end of the day, a snake is a snake, and no campaign donation is going to get in the way of the snake's agenda, but it might allow the snake to remain in power.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

Personally, I call BS on your claim to be a member of the NRA or GOA. You have clearly shown that you are ignorant of the issue vis a vis your posts here. You just learned about them donating to Reid’s campaign through a link someone shared with you a couple posts ago. Before that, you thought they endorsed him. If you were an NRA member and had read any of their magazines, you would have known about the whole Harry Reid issue before I ever mentioned it in this post.

What you call me being frothed up is just my anger over someone who has displayed a clear ignorance on the issue commenting on it.

You have been called out on your ignorance of the issue and are embarrased. I understand that. In your embarrasment, you want to lash out at me. I understand that also. What I would suggest you do is actually become a member of the NRA. I understand they are running a special where lifetime membership is only 300 bucks right now. That’s a darn good deal. Then get one or more of their magazines like the American Rifleman or America’s first freedom and read up on the issues and where the NRA stands on them. Not depend on what “some friends in Nevada” tell you about them.

[C. Edmund Wright]

You can call BS all you want, but I support financially and am members of a lot of groups that I don’t follow day to day on every issue. And for the record, I was correct that the NRA “supported” Reid against Angle, which they did financially - and I am correct that they have endorsed Reid in past elections - and while this is probably over your head, I was also correct that letting it be known that the NRA donated to Reid but did NOT donate to ANgle is the same damned thing as official endorsement by effect.

Nevadans were under the impression that the NRA supported Reid over Angle, and Nevadans are who voted - so while I was wrong on the technical facts, I was totally correct on the impact of the NRA in that election, which was one that hurt Angle...and that was my only point.

You sound like an IRS bureaucrat, hiding behind technicalities while ignoring the big picture. And not only are we members of both, but I’ve been a guest on Gun Owners Radio.....

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"You sound like an IRS bureaucrat, hiding behind technicalities while ignoring the big picture."

No, I sound like someone who is actually informed about the issue and you sound like someone who goes by what some "friends from Nevada" tell you and by reading a link to one of your posts this morning. That's not someone informed on the issue.

"and I am correct that they have endorsed Reid in past elections"

You are showing your ignorance again. The NRA has never come out and endorsed Harry Reid during any of his runs for the Senate. He has never received an 'A' rating. And it is thanks to opposition from people like myself (NRA members) that he didn't receive an endorsement in 2010. I'm a sychophant, but not to the NRA. To the Constitution. As long as the NRA is there to protect it, I stand with them.

For someone who has shown such ignorance on the issues I find it hard to believe you would ever be on any gun talk radio in any type of political discussion.

[C. Edmund Wright]

If you were really that interested in the Constitution, then you would also be a member of GOA, who while much smaller and less powerful, does a much better job of tying gun rights to the theory of over all govermnent control than does the NRA. The NRA is guilty of at times focusing in on small specifics that actually sometimes miss the bigger picture.

BTW, they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.

got it now? This was a de facto endorsement, and the fact that some in Nevada THOUGHT they endorse Reid actually makes MY point and destroys yours....which is that the net impact of the NRA’s activities were PRO Reid and ANTI Angle....on the voter.

Oh, did I mention:
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.
they donated to Reid and not Angle and let this be known.

[C. Edmund Wright]

From Washington Post right before 2010 Mid terms:
By Ben Pershing
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, October 7, 2010
Not a lot of things have gone the Democrats’ way this year, but dozens of their House candidates are getting a late boost from an unusual source: the National Rifle Association.

So far this year, the NRA has endorsed 58 incumbent House Democrats, including more than a dozen in seats that both parties view as critical to winning a majority.

In case you missed it:
By Ben Pershing
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, October 7, 2010
Not a lot of things have gone the Democrats’ way this year, but dozens of their House candidates are getting a late boost from an unusual source: the National Rifle Association.

So far this year, the NRA has endorsed 58 incumbent House Democrats, including more than a dozen in seats that both parties view as critical to winning a majority.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

You are hilarious. You find out one fact about this whole thing through a post someone else shared with you (i.e. you didn’t know this fact before today) and you try to beat me over the head with it. I on the other hand did know this fact. I stand by the true fact, the NRA has never endorsed Harry Reid. Period, end of story. He has never received an A rating. Period, end of story. You claimed I’m trying to obvuscate the facts, when it is you who is twisting the truth. A “defacto endorsement”. You will cling to anything to hide the truth. Truly sad.

I am a member of other gun groups. I’ll tell you why I’m not a member of the GOA. Because they (like you), spend most of their time beating up on the NRA and not our enemies. Take some advice and actually get informed on the issues and where the NRA stands on them and then come back with an informed opinion to discuss this topic rationally. Don’t get your opinion from “some friends in Nevada”...

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"So far this year, the NRA has endorsed 58 incumbent House Democrats, including more than a dozen in seats that both parties view as critical to winning a majority."

Again, you show your ignorance of the NRA's mission. Their mission is not to build up the Republican party. Their mission is to protect our second amendment rights. If only the Republican party had the same mission. You claimed I'm a sychophant for the NRA. Are you a sychophant for the Republican party? Perhaps if the Republican party were as good on the Constitution as the NRA, they would be sympatico...

[C. Edmund Wright]

And from the Washington Examiner: with the headline:

Why does the NRA support Harry Reid?

Over the past few years the National Rifle Association has made some highly questionable decisions regarding legislation in Washington and the politicians with whom it associates itself. One of the most glaring of those questionable decisions leads to this crucial question--why does the NRA support Harry Reid?

(AP Photo/Charles Dharapak). Birds of a feather--Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

Harry Reid, of course, is the U.S. Senator from Nevada who serves as Senate Majority Leader for the Democrat-controlled Congress. Reid is also the one who stated that the income tax is 'voluntary,' that extremist Leftist Elena Kagan is a good choice for the U.S. Supreme Court, that the manner in which the infamous ObamaCare bill was passed was 'open and transparent' (although it was done in secret), and believes that passing legislation to slap heavy taxes on energy consumption by American citizens in the form of the 'cap and trade' energy bill is a good thing.

The NRA has consistently endorsed Reid and gives him favorable ratings.

Here is what NRA Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre said about Reid, as reported in this interesting paragraph in the Las Vegas Review Journal concerning endorsements for Reid:

Talk about bringing out big guns.

Sen Harry Reid, D-Nev., got National Rifle Association leader Wayne LaPierre to speak about Reid's support for gun rights.

Reid is in dire straits, electorally speaking, and needs all the help he can get lining up votes on the conservative side of the spectrum.

"He is a true champion of the Second Amendment back in Washington, DC," LaPierre said of Reid at a dedication for a new shooting range.

In other words, I am vindicated 100% on my point that the NRA supports Reid, and did so over Angle, even though they technically did not issue a written endorsement. No, only LaPierre gushed over him publicly. You are so head up your a__ about the technical endorsement that you missed what the rest of the world knew....which is that the NRA wanted Reid to beat Angle.

[C. Edmund Wright]

I know full well of their mission....and what you are too obtuse to calculate in your miniscule brain is that it NEVER HELPS FREEDOM OR GUN RIGHTS TO ENDORSE A SINGLE DEMOCRAT....EVER EVER EVER .....

Now your’e changing your tune. Totally embarrassed on the Reid issue, you’re now defending the endorsement of Democrats.