Skip to comments.When economic patriotism died
Posted on 05/03/2013 12:00:05 PM PDT by Sheapdog
When economic patriotism died Pat Buchanan agrees with the pope about ' the dark side of globalism'
This is called slave labor, said Pope Francis.
The Holy Father was referring to the $40 a month paid to apparel workers at that eight-story garment factory in Bangladesh that collapsed on top of them, killing more than 400.
Not paying a just wage focusing exclusively on the balance books, on financial statements, only looking at personal profit. That goes against God!
The pope is describing the dark side of globalism.
Why is Bangladesh, after China, the second-largest producer of apparel in the world? Why are there 4,000 garment factories in that impoverished country which, a few decades ago, had almost none?
Because the Asian subcontinent is where Western brands from Disney to Gap to Benetton can produce cheapest. They can do so because women and children will work for $1.50 a day crammed into factories that are rickety firetraps, where health and safety regulations are nonexistent.
This is what capitalism, devoid of a conscience, will produce.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
“I’ll take ‘Higher Taxes’ for $200, Alex!”
When Pat Buchanan says “economic patriotism,” he really means “national socialism.”
And if not for those factories, what would Bangladesh do?
“Tariffs favored U.S. companies by letting them compete for free in the U.S. market, while a cover charge was placed on foreign goods entering the USA.”
Surprise! Pat doesn’t want me to have the freedom to transact as I see fit without (more) taxes to dissuade certain choices HE prefers.
Thanks, Pat! You’re so friggin’ predictable.
The following paragraph represents what Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman think Pat Buchanan is right about:
It’s my moral obligation to help those in need. In Bangladesh, they make clothes, and are happy to do so. I like paying them so they can have a decent standard of living.
I pay Americans to fix my plumbing.
And so on.
Freedom includes the right to transact with whomever you wish without receiving Paddy’s approval.
There is no such thing as economic patriotism as defined by Pat. His views were outmoded when the 30’s brand of Republican isolationism was in vogue. I suppose it was injected through his cradle slats.
The end result is Chavez style nationalization. I can’t understand why so many conservatives demand a path away from capitalism
Buchanan’s heart is in the proper place, he simply fails to consider the consequences of the stuff he proposes (sometimes).
The idea is that housing those factories ultimately will provide Bangladesh with the opportunity to lift their overall standard of living up, whether they manage to take advantage of it, remains to be seen....but it has been done before.....in South Korea, for example...which before the division, was considered to be the poorer part of the country.
Pat forgets The Other Part - that US government taxes and regulation have made it impossible to produce low-cost goods here, regardless of what tariffs may be imposed.
I would agree however, there are certain things that should not be outsourced, due to security concerns...imagine if in the 1930s we outsourced our steel production to Japan.
And I should care about the people in Bangladesh because... ?
There is an ironic factoid I’ll share.
About two years ago I went to witness the machines being exported to Bangladesh. They were a 9 year old fully automatic Japanese system for converting bales of cotton to T shirt yarn. Raw cotton in one door, spools of yarn out the other.
There were very few employees required to operate the fully automatic, pretty much state of the art machinery.
Hard times are coming to Bangladesh........ the equipment from th North Carolina plant will put some Bangladeshi’s out of work.
I agree. I generally like Pat. He’s a patriot. He loves this country. He’s never been in business for a single minute and his ignorance shows. And yes, the consequences, the connection of dots, the domino effect, never dawns on him.
Ultimately, we as consumers determine the market. Businesses don’t. Workers don’t, but of course, Pat forgets, as do many, that the Americn worker and the American consumer ARE the same. The American worker/consumer benefits from cheap goods - just like the American worker/consumer faces consequences of cheap goods.
This is why no centrally planned economy EVER EVER EVER works. No planning can equal the net effect of millions and millions of hiring, firing, buying, selling, pricing, shipping, etc, decisions made by the populace.
The Pope is the same. Heart in right place. Economic ignorant.
Without a job, the become Jihadis.
Indeed you are describing the real problem coming....the fact that there aren’t going to be enough unskilled jobs to go around, due to technology.
Idle hands are the Devil’s workshop.
Or let’s say we outsource our military satellite traffic to the Chinese:
As tho the people in Bangladesh haven’t been idle for the last 100 years... riiiight.
Ironic indeed....those textile jobs probably left NC at some point in the first place....now NC has better jobs replacing them. This is why you cannot ever plan an economy. No way to know what is coming down the pike...unless you plan....which means protect status quo....which means nothing better ever comes down the pike.
I agree with you 100%. But what about ‘marketing’ products made in the US? It’s easy for consumers to part with their money for the right product.
Remember FUBU (For Us By Us)? I thought they had a niche that could work but their products were made outside of the US. They came out with egg on their face, so to speak. Those that talk the talk should walk the walk.
However I’ve not heard any good solutions for the real problems of globalization, technology and demographics. I don’t think there’s much you can do but prepare.
Okay, so $0/month. What does that mean? Sounds terrible if they lived in the USA, but what does $40/ a month get you in Bangladesh? That is the question. I don’t know the answer but it’s all relative. If the factories weren’t there, what would their salary be?
Okay, so $40/month. What does that mean? Sounds terrible if they lived in the USA, but what does $40/ a month get you in Bangladesh? That is the question. I don’t know the answer but it’s all relative. If the factories weren’t there, what would their salary be?
I dont’ think you interpreted his comment the way he meant it. An economic national socialist is NOT the same thing as a Nazi necessarily anyway. Similar in econ policy, but theres’ a LOT MORE to Nazi’s than pure national socialism. If RB had meant Nazi, he would have used that term IMO.
Don’t know why I bother to post this stuff. Read the complete article and comments - are quite good.
I know it just brings out the “free-traders” who exalt in their ability to understand the complexities of the modern global economy while those who disagree are naive troglodytes who don’t know anything about history or economics.
Let’s just disagree.
Marketing in a certain way is something that business owners, in liberty, are free to do. But your best point was on not being any real solutions for globalization. There aren’t. There is never a “solution” for reality, because it exists whether or not you want to admit it or not. Besides, in every economic change, there is both good and bad, but neither is permanent. The only bad/bad economy is one that is planned. To “solve” globalization would be to try and “plan” an economy. Never works. And as Milton Friedman asks, “so where will we get these angels who will make all these decisions for us. I don’t trust you to do that.”
And by ‘you’ - he means ANYONE.
Never understood why people think that 40.00 is somehow a pittance.
Those people were once accustomed to making nothing. 40.00 is a lot of money to them. People over here went through the same thing 110 years ago.
There is no skipping this stage.
You are, of course, correct. And then there’s this fact; if someone is offering you the best option you have, how in the world is that exploitation? If it’s the best you can get, its the best you can get. If you are better off taking said option, regardless of how crappy that option is, your problem is not that option. Your problem is much bigger than that.
How the Pope, or Pat, can blame businesses that are giving these people a better shot than anyone else is giving them is just astonishing. With due respect to Pat and The Pope, they are just wrong about this.
Wonder if Pat is still driving his Benz, LOL.
I would guess these wages allow one to live in Bangladesh. The issue Pat is our government making it hard to do business here.
You’re seriously going to try using that logic? “Give us your economic activity... or else we’ll become terrorists!” Jeez, you “free traders” are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
Yea, that makes a boatload of sense. Next thing they could say is “Give us money for doing nothing... or else we’ll become terrorists!”
Oh wait... I’m having a flashback. The excess of my youth is catching up to me... I seem to remember some peanut farmer named Jimmy Carter who did that with the Egyptians and Israelis in the 70’s. Look at how that’s turned out... billions of dollars per year, and it doesn’t seem to be working. Egypt is now the largest population country in the middle east controlled by Islamist forces.
Uh oh, now I’m seeing Jerry on stage in the 80’s, just before his diabetic coma... and I’m flashing on Iran-Contra, where we supplied cash and TOW missiles to the Iranians to get hostages... and they’re still sponsors of terrorism. Oh, and the Iranians kidnapped more Americans to replace those they let go under the “deal.”
Oh, and wait... the LSD continues to wreck my brain and I’m having MORE flashbacks. Kids, don’t drop acid, it causes you to remember really unpleasant stuff. I seem to recall some yahoo named “Bush” who poured money, blood, jobs and economic development by the boatload into Afghanistan, and they continue to pump out terrorists apace. Hell, they won’t stop taking a crap in the middle of the street according to gun buddies who have served there. Even after we US taxpayers have paid for public sanitary facilities to be built (and made jobs for the locals to build them), they keep crapping in the middle of the street by hiking up their man dresses in public.
Right now, we’re pouring money by the trainload into crapholes all over the middle east, and terrorism is gaining, not losing ground. Heck, lots of the money and arms we’re shipping into the middle east are ending up directly in the hands of the terrorists.
OK, here’s the summary of my flashbacks: Giving them jobs, money, economic development, whatever you want to call it... won’t prevent terrorists from arising.
The two low-rent Muslims in Massachusetts that bombed the marathon had been given (as a family) over $100K in welfare over the years by the taxpayers... and still they bombed the marathon. They had a cushier, more comfortable existence than they were ever, EVER going to have in their third world dungheap of a homeland, and still they killed people here.
Call me Nostradamus, because I’m going to make a prediction based on past experience that pumping money into third world cesspools doesn’t prevent terrorism.
Want to prevent people from becoming terrorists? Kill them. It works every time. Dead bodies, despite lurid depictions to the contrary by Hollywood and some idiot marketing twits in the gun industry, don’t move.
Some of the better jobs are here in east Tennessee. I visit another company that manufactures very complex machines that in various manners input raw cotton samples and subject it to very rigorous quality analysis. The machines are the standard for cotton grading world wide.
Many years ago, a professor at the University of Tennessee created a machine to grade cotton for the world cotton market then headquarted in Memphis. They have grown and prospered and created fantastic technology that the world comes to buy
So, its ok to move production to a cheaper state but not to a cheaper country.That doesn't seem rational.
Tariffs prevented exploiters of labor from getting rich here on sweatshops abroad
But it was bad for American consumers because the protectionism caused higher prices for consumers in the long run.
And so it came to pass. U.S. real wages have not risen in 40 years.
When prices keep going higher thanks to protectionism and government inflation of the money supply, real wages will not rise despite a rise in money wage rates.
"You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations! There are no peoples! There are no Russians! There are no Arabs! There are no third worlds! There is no West! There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, Reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels!
You get up on your little twenty-one-inch screen, and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and Dupont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today."
Even better...why should I care about Americans who lose their jobs to overseas cheap labor? I got mine.
Real wages haven't risen since 1973? Really?
The last time he tried to pull such a statistical stunt was when he clarified by claiming "the rate of increase has declined (or fallen)." Just like a Dem.
Its the "digging yourself out of the hole by using a bigger shovel" theory of Government.
No one loses their job to “cheap overseas labor” in the way you think. CONSUMERS, not businesses, set the price of goods. And when the price that goods will support cannot be met, a company has to move or go out of business. Simple. ANd in the meantime, that very same worker probably contributed to the loss of others jobs by being a smart consumer.
We are all Workers/consumers - and all economic decisions have ramifications far more complex than “losing a job to overseas cheap labor.” Its not that simple. If it were, every government would plan their economy and they would all be planned properly.
BINGO! Nailed it.
don’t leave out Siemens, schneider, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Nestle, Bayer, Phillips, Shell, Samsung, Hyundai
That is how I see it too. Of course we could force the EPA/OSHA/FDA/(pick 3 letters and repeat as needed) on them and make sure they NEVER develop and stay dirt poor FOREVER.
In that case, it doesn't matter if they're getting paid $40/month or $40,000/month.
I don’t think anyone is trying to justify the death of 400 workers as the price of a free market. Between building codes, inspectors, architects, builder and the owner there is probably more than enough blame to go around but the does not lie in the wages, the free market or “globalism.” Why try to shift the blame to where it does not belong?
There is no skipping this stage.
That is true.
I am reminded of the observations of a noted US private equity specialist last May concerning Chinese factories, the nature of the workers, their long hours, the packed conditions under which the live, the direction in which the barbed-wire fences are oriented, and, come Chinese New Year, the length of the Arbeit-macht-frei queue:
Romney: And I remember going tosorry just to bore you with storiesbut I was, when I was back in my private equity days, we went to China to buy a factory there, employed about 20,000 people, and they were almost all young women between the ages of about 18 and 22 or 23. They were saving for potentially becoming married, and they worked in these huge factories, they made various small appliances, and as we were walking through this facility, seeing them work, the number of hours they worked per day, the pittance they earned, living in dormitories with little bathrooms at the end with maybe ten rooms. And the rooms, they had 12 girls per room, three bunk beds on top of each other. You've seen them.
Audience member: Oh, yeah.
Romney: And around this factory was a fence, a huge fence with barbed wire, and guard towers. And we said, "Gosh, I can't believe that you, you know, you keep these girls in." They said, "No, no, nothis is to keep other people from coming in. Because people want so badly to come work in this factory that we have to keep them out, or they'll just come in here and start working and try and get compensated. So, wethis is to keep people out." And they said, "Actually, Chinese New Year, is the girls go home, sometimes they decide they've saved enough money and they don't come back to the factory." And he said, "And so on the weekend after Chinese New Year, there'll be a line of people hundreds long outside the factory, hoping that some girls haven't come back and they can come to the factory.
And so, as we were experiencing this for the first time, for me to see a factory like this in China some years ago, the Bain partner I was with turned to me and said, "You know, 95 percent of life is settled if you're born in America." This is an amazing land. And what we have is unique, and fortunately it is so special we're sharing it with the world. I'm concerned about the future, but also optimistic as I said, and I look forward to getting America back on track, and having people plan on bringing their ideas and their dreams to this country. We get big dreamers, by the way. Oh, I just, we didn't talk about immigration today. Gosh, I'd love to bring in more legal immigrants that have skill and [unintelligible]. I'd like to staple a green card to every Ph.D. in the world and say, "Come to America, we want you here." Instead, we make it hard for people who get educated here or elsewhere to make this their home. Unless, of course, you have no skill or experience, in which case you're welcome to cross the border and stay here for the rest of your life. [Audience laughs.] It's very strange. It's run by people who don't understand the words "global competition of ideas," and our idea has to win, but only if America reigns strong.
...and yet, he quickly started in about profits and wages......didn’t he?
Yep, he did. Thus, I acknowledge the Pope’s compassion for the collapse victims, but stand by my point that he is simply economically wrong on the other.
All the critics of Buchanan on here, cannot provide one shred of evidence that Free Trade works. Watch em go Saul Alinsky trying to defend it
So, if the American worker loses their job....how do they remain an American consumer?
You and me paying the taxes for his welfare, food stamps, SSI