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Retired US officers react to Obama allowing women in combat (Gen Boykin debates Col McSally)
http://www.foxnews.com ^ | January 27, 2013 | Chris Wallace

Posted on 01/27/2013 4:53:00 PM PST by NKP_Vet

WALLACE: And hello, again, from Fox News in Washington.

Colonel Martha McSally was our nation's first female combat pilot, logging 325 hours in the skies over Iraq and Afghanistan and she joins us from Tucson.

Lieutenant General Jerry Boykin was one of the original members of the Army's Delta Force and former head of the U.S. Special Forces Command.

Colonel, General, welcome to "Fox News Sunday." I have to say, I have been looking forward to this discussion.

RET. LIEUTENANT GENERAL JERRY BOYKIN: Thank you very much, Chris.

RET. COLONEL MARTHA MCSALLY: So have I. Thanks for having us on.

WALLACE: Right. Here's how Defense Secretary Panetta explained his decision this week. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Not everyone is going to be able to be a combat soldier. But, everyone is entitled to a chance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: General Boykin, you dismissed this as another case of the Pentagon using the military for a social experiment. I'd like you to tell Colonel McSally directly, knowing her background, look into the camera and tell her why she is unfit to serve in combat.

BOYKIN: Well, Chris, you need to frame it correctly. It's not an issue of women in combat. Women are in combat already and have been since 9/11, in fact, prior to that. And Colonel McSally is a great example of how women can be used effectively in combat. General Boykin has said. be considered for what they bring to the fight.

WALLACE: Well, let me just --

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS:
Former US Army Special Operations Commander Jerry Boykin, who has been making the talk shows telling the absolute truth about women in the infantry and special ops, debating retired Col Martha McSally, former pilot in the Air Force. No doubt in my mind that McSally is an Obama supporter. She is so naive she actually thinks that women can serve in ground special operations, exactly like a man. She actually started belittling Gen Boykin for having the gall to say women should not be in ground combat units, and damn sure not the special forces. I guess all those years of going to the officers club, then flying a mission, then going right back to the officers club, then to the BOQ, actually means she could have hung with the special forces. Typical Air Force Officer flyer, pampered while NCOs do all the work. I wish Wallace would have asked her about her basic training and how it compared to Gen Boykin's. Would have loved to had seen how red her face got.
1 posted on 01/27/2013 4:53:06 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

“Chair” force officer...


2 posted on 01/27/2013 5:04:09 PM PST by thoolou ("I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous." - David Bradley, inventor of Ctrl-Alt-Del)
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To: NKP_Vet

Her, not you. ;)


3 posted on 01/27/2013 5:05:52 PM PST by thoolou ("I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous." - David Bradley, inventor of Ctrl-Alt-Del)
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To: NKP_Vet

You should do a little research before spouting.


4 posted on 01/27/2013 5:09:04 PM PST by greatvikingone
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To: NKP_Vet

The IDF made this mistake long ago and now do not allow women into their special forces, infantry, or armor.


5 posted on 01/27/2013 5:10:35 PM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: greatvikingone

I saw this and it is exactly how she came across.


6 posted on 01/27/2013 5:11:10 PM PST by sauropod (I will not comply)
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To: NKP_Vet; a fool in paradise

No time (or habit) to read the article. Is McSally, as the name indicates, a female?


7 posted on 01/27/2013 5:11:38 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: NKP_Vet

Yeah, that’s the thing about being an Air Force pilot ... on a good day, you go back to hot steaks, cold beer, and an air-conditioned hooch.

On a bad day, you end up dead.

On a really bad day, you end up bunking with John McCain and dining with Hanoi Jane.


8 posted on 01/27/2013 5:12:40 PM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: NKP_Vet
I will toss aside the snide remarks about McSally being an Obama supporter (she lost a congressional race this cycle running as a republican) and how pilots only hang out at the O'club (which is more fun than having missiles the size of telephone poles shot at you).

The point is that ground combat specialties have intense physical requirements that most women and most men can't do. Women can't because they are big enough or strong enough. Most men that can't for the exact same reasons. If we ever sacrifice that standard then we will get extra people killed in this war and the next.

I already fear for the Navy. Bombs don't get lighter, fires don't get cooler just because you are weaker. It doesn't matter if 99.9% of your career is spent banging away at a keyboard if you get killed during that .1% when you needed to move a huge piece of metal or close a water tight door to survive.

9 posted on 01/27/2013 5:18:35 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit

I agree with one thing, privacy is an invalid argument. Screw privacy.

There are two problems

1) the standards will be relaxed for women. Perhaps not officially but commanders will be required to explain why the job can’t be done by a woman, and no answer will be adequate. Women already have lower standards for every measurement of physical fitness in all the branches.

2) discipline. Put young men and young women together and they will do what young men and women do. It will hurt moral and lead to real and false charges of assault.

In the end it will damage readiness and cost lives.


10 posted on 01/27/2013 5:25:11 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: DuncanWaring
Okay, so Col (Ret) McSally has 325 combat hours over Iraq and Afghanistan. So what?

How many of those hours were spent actually delivering ordance on target?

During those 325 hours how many USAF aircraft were lost to direct enemy action?

Several years ago I almost bumped into an female AF LtCol. At that time ACC aircrew wore stars on the cuffs of their flight suits to denote total flying time and combat hours. When I asked about her combat time I discovered it was as a Lt. on AWACS aircraft miles behind the lines. When I down played her combat time she asked about me. Said my first hours of combat time were earned as a Lt, the the belly of a BUFF, over Vietnam. After she recovered he balance I said: “There's Combat time and then there's combat time.” And left her with an open mouth.

11 posted on 01/27/2013 5:27:04 PM PST by Nip (BOHEICA and TANSTAAFL - both seem very appropriate today.)
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To: thoolou
. No doubt in my mind that McSally is an Obama supporter.

Not so. She ran as a conservative here in AZ in the last election and lost to a super liberal democrat, Giffords right hand man. Having said that I still do not want to put women into hard core ground combat. I have seen too much damage done by scheming females on board ships and in other areas where propinquity creates tension. " A Fire in the paint locker" so to speak.

12 posted on 01/27/2013 5:27:49 PM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: NKP_Vet

An important aspect of this which isn’t often discussed by the feminists is: What can our female combatants expect when they captured by our current enemies?

I imagine it won’t be dinner and a movie.


13 posted on 01/27/2013 5:38:32 PM PST by 04-Bravo
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To: driftdiver

Wonder if there will be quotas, too? Not enough women passed the physical tests? Why? Must be something wrong.


14 posted on 01/27/2013 5:43:22 PM PST by dhs12345
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To: dhs12345

“Wonder if there will be quotas, too? Not enough women passed the physical tests? Why?”

Why? Because the commander, first sgt, senior enlisted and so on are trying to keep women out. They’ll all receive a letter.

I find it amazing this was done without Congressional input.


15 posted on 01/27/2013 5:49:38 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Don Corleone
No doubt in my mind that McSally is an Obama supporter

I never said that. I've read research tha women make excellent fighter pilots, and I don't doubt that. I just don't think they should be war-fighters, but I'm just an old fart... ;)
16 posted on 01/27/2013 5:49:53 PM PST by thoolou ("I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous." - David Bradley, inventor of Ctrl-Alt-Del)
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To: USNBandit

Perfectly stated.


17 posted on 01/27/2013 5:52:33 PM PST by thoolou ("I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous." - David Bradley, inventor of Ctrl-Alt-Del)
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To: driftdiver

>>1) the standards will be relaxed for women. Perhaps not officially but commanders will be required to explain why the job can’t be done by a woman, and no answer will be adequate.

You are quite correct! As with everything this regime has done, the unspoken truth is the most important part. McSally said that only “qualified” women should fill combat roles, but we all know that when enough “qualified” women are not available, there will be questions as to why women fail to qualify. Then, the standards will start to drop, unofficially of course!

If women are such great war-fighters, then lets just form Amazon units and let them fight on a level playing field with the male units. This would be a great opportunity to prove the equality of the sexes.


18 posted on 01/27/2013 6:23:11 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: NKP_Vet

Wallace sounds a little combative to the general. Fox has become another “news” network conservatives should avoid.


19 posted on 01/27/2013 6:23:58 PM PST by Terry Mross (How long do we have?)
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To: Bryanw92

Why not put a man and a woman of the same weight in a boxing ring and any woman that beats the man gets to train for the Infantry.


20 posted on 01/27/2013 6:29:13 PM PST by Venturer
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To: Nip

How many of those hours were spent actually delivering ordance on target? NONE

During those 325 hours how many USAF aircraft were lost to direct enemy action? NONE

If you read her history it says she first flew into combat during Desert Storm. What combat? The Iraqi Air Force NEVER engaged us in combat. What few planes they had flew straight out of Iraqi airspace. Desert Sheild/Storm was a turkey shoot. And, when she deployed to Afganistan, what kind of aircraft did she encounter? What kind of SAMs, other than ragheads throwing rocks at her? The Air Force has basically had no mission in Enduring Freedom, except medivac and cargo.


21 posted on 01/27/2013 6:38:50 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

McSally commded, and flew in an
A-10 Warthog squadron.


22 posted on 01/27/2013 7:51:02 PM PST by Longbow
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To: driftdiver
Agreed.

One of the more interesting aspects I have personal knowledge of is the reluctance of some women to join these warfare specialities. I had a three star tell me one of the disappointing problems they were having was getting women to take pilot slots. Even when offered a pilot slot many of them chose a flight officer slot instead. Neither of us could fathom wanting to be in a plane and not be at the controls. When I went through Annapolis the available ship driver billets for women went unfilled as many of them chose shore jobs.

23 posted on 01/27/2013 7:51:46 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Longbow

Well that proves my point. How many tanks and armored vehicles did the Iraqis have or Afganis have for a warthog to shoot at?


24 posted on 01/27/2013 8:03:39 PM PST by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
There are no women participating in the NFL,NBA,MLB,Men's Professional Soccer, Men's Professional Rugby, Tennis, Golf - why?Because biology / physiology make men bigger, faster, stronger,and by nature more aggressive. Infantry, Special Ops, Armor all require the same attributes of the most physically demanding professional sports in order to be successful except in a life or death situation under the most hostile of living conditions. The GI Jane movie fantasy will result in unnecessary battlefield deaths and a massive loss of war fighting effectiveness. Our enemies are laughing.
25 posted on 01/27/2013 8:07:17 PM PST by Apercu ("Obama is graffiti on the wall of American History")
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To: thoolou

that is what we always said in the Army, the air force was the “chair force” and if you stood around with your hands in your pockets that was “air force gloves”


26 posted on 01/27/2013 8:33:05 PM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: NKP_Vet

Martha didn’t fly in Desert Storm. She deployed to Kuwait in 1995, after the war, and flew less than 100 hours patrolling the peaceful skies of Iraq. To put it in perspective, I was also flying then, in 111s, and once flew 90 hours in 17 days. That should give an idea of how little she did in her “first combat tour”. It wasn’t until a few years later that the Iraqis started shooting at us on patrol.

So the rest of her “combat time” was flying over Afghanistan in 2004, unopposed. She never faced organized AAA, never faced a SAM, and never faced an enemy air force. She lived and worked out of a base with 10,000 Americans. She could eat pizza every night if she wished, or Baskin-Robbins ice cream. She had private quarters.


27 posted on 01/27/2013 8:49:58 PM PST by Mr Rogers (America is becoming California, and California is becoming Detroit. Detroit is already hell.)
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To: Apercu

You have the best argument.


28 posted on 01/27/2013 9:34:20 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: Apercu

You have the best argument.


29 posted on 01/27/2013 9:34:33 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: Apercu

You have the best argument.


30 posted on 01/27/2013 9:34:33 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: Apercu

You have the best argument.


31 posted on 01/27/2013 9:34:37 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: Apercu

You have the best argument.


32 posted on 01/27/2013 9:34:56 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: Cen-Tejas

Sorry! Don’t know what happened!


33 posted on 01/27/2013 9:36:33 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: yldstrk

” the air force was the “chair force””

Yeah thats what I always say about those Forward Air Controllers. You know the guys who went into Afghanistan before the marines or army. Attached to the Afghan army they called in strike after strike all while basically being the only Americans for a few hundred miles.


34 posted on 01/28/2013 4:04:25 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

Oh well, I was in when the world was safe for democracy and we were of course, spoiled and dumb. Sorry, didn’t mean to offend. Yes, I am aware that the pilots are always the ones who get shot down behind enemy lines and imprisoned. Had no clue about air traffic controllers—that is interesting to know.


35 posted on 01/28/2013 5:59:24 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: driftdiver
Ya. Lots of letters and reprimands and moral and discipline go down the tubes.
36 posted on 01/29/2013 7:20:14 PM PST by dhs12345
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