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Whether the Semi-Automatic Weapons Ban Passes Depends on What Happens to the Senate Rules (McCain)
Red State ^ | January 4th, 2013 at 05:48 PM | Michael Hammond

Posted on 01/08/2013 4:06:24 PM PST by Red Steel

McCAIN MAY BE WORKING TO STAB US IN THE BACK

It was reported yesterday that Vice President Joe Biden “guaranteed” to ailing Boston Mayor Tom Menino that sweeping gun control legislation would be passed by the end of January.

How sweeping?

A quick look at Feinstein’s semi-auto ban legislation suggests that up to 75% of all handguns currently in circulation would be banned, along with 50% of all long guns.

Depending on its configuration, the AR-15 you already have would probably be treated like a machine gun. You would have to be fingerprinted, background checked by the FBI, and undergo a six-month license application process to keep it. And when you die, the government will seize it.

If you don’t get an NFA license, you can expect the SWAT teams to descend on your house.

But, you ask, how could such rabidly anti-gun legislation ever get past Congress?

For an answer, look at what happened on the fiscal cliff.

The Senate would change its rules so that it could pass a gun ban with only 50 votes (plus the vote of Vice President Joe Biden) -– or so that you could write the gun ban in a House-Senate conference committee on a must-pass bill. Democrats like West Virginia’s Joe Manchin, Nevada’s Harry Reid, and Pennsylvania’s Bob Casey — who will not have to run for reelection for awhile –- will cast “courageous” votes for this gun ban.

And it will hit the House with enormous momentum –- momentum which House Speaker John Boehner (who has already called for a dialogue on gun control) may not have the courage to resist.

But the first step will be to demolish the Senate rules so that gun control only requires 50 votes -– or so that gun control can be inserted in the conference report on a must-pass bill. And this is where John McCain comes in.

McCain is angry that Kentucky Senator Rand Paul worked with Gun Owners of America on a variety of pro-gun issues that slowed down his defense funding bill. And it is no secret why McCain loves House-Senate conferences: Just last month, he and Armed Services Chairman Carl Levin used the DoD conference to demolish position adopted by Senate supermajorities, including the prohibition on indefinitely detaining American citizens without trial. Therefore, McCain and Levin are out to punish Paul and GOA for opposing his legislation to indefinitely detain American citizens.

So they are working together on a series of rules changes to, inter alia, make gun control a lot easier to pass.

The first McCain-Levin rules change would make it impossible to fight a motion to proceed to gun control legislation. Remember ObamaCare? Our last real shot to kill ObamaCare was by filibustering the motion to proceed to it. Once the motion to proceed was adopted, the bill became amendable and Harry Reid could play “let’s-make-a-deal.”

The second McCain-Levin rules change would make it easier to add gun control to a bill in conference. Currently, senators can block a conference. If the McCain proposals are adopted, a must-pass bill could be sent to conference, amended in conference with a draconian gun ban, and then sent back to the House and the Senate on a take-it-or-leave-it basis.

McCain will try to tell you that that would be outside the “scope of conference.” But “scope of conference” rules are never followed. Gramm-Rudman was written in conference from the ground up.

The third McCain-Levin rules change would block any amendments except for those Leader McConnell and Manager McCain proposed. All other senators would be out in the cold.

This McCain-Levin package must be stopped.

Senator Rand Paul is currently planning to offer an amendment requiring a two-thirds vote in the Senate before any anti-gun measure can be passed.

I know. I know. If it were up to me, gun control would not be able to be passed with 100 votes. But we need to propose something which will pass the Senate.

So this is the “day of march.” We saw, with the resolution of the fiscal cliff debate, how the diminution of the Senate rules (and Republican courage) can lead to historically bad results.

But if conservatives allow these rules changes to be implemented, they have no reason to complain when the rules allow them to be defeated in battles over the debt limit, the continuing resolution, and sequestration.

In those battles, the rules -– which are now up for debate -– will determine whether we win or lose.


TOPICS: Front Page News; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: banglist; govtabuse; guncontrol; hangingonlightpoles; mccain; secondamendment; treason; tyranny; youwillnotdisarmus
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Unstable McCain at it again.
1 posted on 01/08/2013 4:06:37 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
If the feds were just a little bit patient they could have all they want in about 25 years.

But they're just stupid enough to try it this way.

2 posted on 01/08/2013 4:09:18 PM PST by skeeter
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To: Red Steel
If you don’t get an NFA license, you can expect the SWAT teams to descend on your house.

They'll be "descending" for eternity!

3 posted on 01/08/2013 4:12:55 PM PST by Alaska Wolf (Carry a Gun, It's a Lighter Burden Than Regret)
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To: Red Steel
Semi-automatic—I assume they mean the mechanical double action of fire then reload...

...covers most everything except muzzle loaders if you think about it.

4 posted on 01/08/2013 4:14:07 PM PST by Happy Rain ("Banning guns over Adam Lanza would be like banning speech over Bill Maher.")
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To: Alaska Wolf

I’d much rather the SEALs descend on the White House.


5 posted on 01/08/2013 4:14:21 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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To: Red Steel

Reid began this ‘nuclear option’ campaign right before Sandy Hook.. The plan for the plan has been planned!


6 posted on 01/08/2013 4:17:26 PM PST by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America (IMPEACH OBAMA)
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Of COURSE McCain is going to stab us in the back.
RINOs ALWAYS act in this fashion.
Is anyone actually surprised?


7 posted on 01/08/2013 4:19:41 PM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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To: Red Steel
Citizens' inalienable rights..


8 posted on 01/08/2013 4:23:45 PM PST by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Red Steel

Thank you Arizona. /s


9 posted on 01/08/2013 4:25:17 PM PST by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" (Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: Red Steel

I have zero Confidence in the Republican “Leadership” in Washington DC. They will make a little noise and go on the Sunday morning shows but in the end they will fold.


10 posted on 01/08/2013 4:25:40 PM PST by jakerobins
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To: skeeter
If the feds were just a little bit patient they could have all they want in about 25 years.

In 25 years, Obama won't get to be the dictator who seizes control. He will go for it all and that could be our salvation.

11 posted on 01/08/2013 4:27:26 PM PST by ez (When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.)
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To: Red Steel

Never mind the article. I read the comments following and I am aghast at the weakkneed responses. Imagine walking armed down a road and being met by a man coming toward you, also armed, who demands you surrender your weapon to him. There is no reason to debate in this instance or any other. The intent is clear and the act of defense demanded. No government has authority to disarm me in the face of my enemies or beasts of the wild for that matter. Is my level of comprehension so low that I miss seeing a bigger picture all of you see? Or is it a need to jaw-jack when others see only a need to act?


12 posted on 01/08/2013 4:29:06 PM PST by chulaivn66 (Semper Fidelis in Extremis)
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To: Happy Rain

Yep, will include not only semi-auto pistols but also double action revolvers. Doesn’t leave much does it?


13 posted on 01/08/2013 4:29:45 PM PST by snoringbear (E.oGovernment is the Pimp,)
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To: Red Steel

Just a reminder that most here supported Juan for POTUS - potentially giving him the ability to rule by Executive Order!

One more RINO in a long line of RINOs. Losers all.


14 posted on 01/08/2013 4:31:53 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: snoringbear

They intend to move fast on this ban. Get the ammo you need NOW! Pay cash where you can don’t leave a trail!


15 posted on 01/08/2013 4:37:35 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: Red Steel

Feinstein is certifiable.

They had best be careful what they wish for. Actions have consequences. The consequences of this one are beyond fathonable.


16 posted on 01/08/2013 4:37:34 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Red Steel

Feinstein is certifiable.

They had best be careful what they wish for. Actions have consequences. The consequences of this one are beyond fathonable.


17 posted on 01/08/2013 4:38:49 PM PST by Texas Fossil
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To: Alaska Wolf
If you don’t get an NFA license, you can expect the SWAT teams to descend on your house.

And some of THEM won't be going home. I'll be waiting. But not there.

18 posted on 01/08/2013 4:38:49 PM PST by Noumenon (One individual with courage, determination and a rifle can change the course of history.)
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To: Noumenon
I'll be waiting. But not there.

There are so many soft targets, it's appalling how many patriot's plans don't go beyond engaging a squad of soldiers on their own doorstep, with their babies sleeping upstairs.

I don't think Sun Tzu would approve.

19 posted on 01/08/2013 4:49:21 PM PST by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved, or not at all)
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To: Red Steel

It will not make it through the House regardless. FU mccain.

LLS


20 posted on 01/08/2013 4:51:51 PM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Red Steel

If there is ANY possibility of this passing the House, it hardly matters what the Senate rules are, because the Senate will have 80 votes for it.


21 posted on 01/08/2013 4:51:55 PM PST by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved, or not at all)
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To: Jim Noble
Now, more than ever, patriots need to reacquaint themselves with The Art of War. Timeless. Also look at "leaderless resistance."
22 posted on 01/08/2013 4:55:30 PM PST by Noumenon (One individual with courage, determination and a rifle can change the course of history.)
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To: Red Steel

Why would I care what the clowns in the senate pass?

You need MEN, commited men, who are disciplined, organized and trained to go into unknown areas and go house-to-house to confiscate guns.

I can’t imagine self-centered, egotistical leftists who are willing to die on a hilltop for the glory of Buckwheat. They don’t exist. Given the choice of letting the mobs hang Buckwheat or bugging out, heading home and eating a jumbo bag of chips, the chips and dip win.

Sorry, DU. You lose, we win.


23 posted on 01/08/2013 4:56:22 PM PST by sergeantdave (The FBI has declared war on the Marine Corps)
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To: Jim Noble

“There are so many soft targets,...”

So true. Think about who supports liberals. Think about how vulnerable they’ve made themselves by becoming wards to the state.


24 posted on 01/08/2013 5:00:18 PM PST by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
So you are glad Juan loss and Obama won?

odd

25 posted on 01/08/2013 5:02:16 PM PST by Happy Rain ("Banning guns over Adam Lanza would be like banning speech over Bill Maher.")
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To: Red Steel

The rules change will be passed by Dem senators from conservative states- like Manchin.

So they can vote against bills like gun control- and the bills will still be passed.

Reid’s monkeys are despicable and unaccountable.


26 posted on 01/08/2013 5:04:21 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: Red Steel

Ping for reference


27 posted on 01/08/2013 5:04:59 PM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Red Steel

We have a House of Representatives, too. It doesn’t matter whether or not it passes the Senate. The bill won’t pass the House.


28 posted on 01/08/2013 5:11:02 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: mrsmith

“...proposal for reforming the Senate rules now has 26 co-sponsors, all Democrats. But they represent a healthy ideological cross-section of the entire caucus.

In addition to Udall, Harkin and Merkley, the resolution is currently co-sponsored by the following senators: Dick Durbin (IL), Amy Klobuchar (MN), Sherrod Brown (OH), Mark Begich (AK), Richard Blumenthal (CT), Kirsten Gillibrand (NY), Jeanne Shaheen (NH), Michael Bennet (CO), Barbara Boxer (CA), Benjamin L. Cardin (MD), Bob Casey (PA), Christopher Coons (DE), Al Franken (MN), Kay Hagan (NC), Frank Lautenberg (NJ), Joe Manchin (WV), Barbara Mikulski (MD), Jay Rockefeller (WV), Debbie Stabenow (MI), Jon Tester (MT), Mark Udall (CO), Mark Warner (VA), and Sheldon Whitehouse (RI).”
http://news.firedoglake.com/2011/01/06/26-co-sponsors-for-senate-rules-reform-as-ben-nelson-walks-back-opposition/

“Warner, Manchin, Tester and Hagan being aboard at this point is pretty solid. And there are others, like Frank Lautenberg, Ron Wyden, Claire McCaskill and others, who have their own rules bills with similar elements.”

The purpose of the rules change is to get Dem laws passed without Dems having to vote for them.


29 posted on 01/08/2013 5:12:10 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: Red Steel

“Unconstitutional laws are not laws”


30 posted on 01/08/2013 5:16:38 PM PST by struggle (http://killthegovernment.wordpress.com/)
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To: Red Steel

I don’t see the issue here. Plenty of freepers have been telling us that principles did not matter.

So they can just enjoy the results of principles not mattering.

Quietly.


31 posted on 01/08/2013 5:17:38 PM PST by Norm Lenhart
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To: Red Steel
The third McCain-Levin rules change would block any amendments except for those Leader McConnell and Manager McCain proposed

Look at the gun purchase stats for KY (someone posted them a day or so on another thread, I can't recall where).

Mitchie's up for reelection in 2014. In the state that (I think) has either the 2nd or 3rd highest rate of firearms purchases in the NATION.

He goes along with this, he's gonna be primaried by a serious challenger. If he wins the nomination (either by beating off a primary challenge or by KY GOP leadership fiat), a really substantial portion of his base is going to stay home. Say hello to Senator Ashley Judd ...
32 posted on 01/08/2013 5:18:25 PM PST by tanknetter
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To: APatientMan

The faces of the propaganda apparatus and the commissars of the welfare machine are very...out there.


33 posted on 01/08/2013 5:19:50 PM PST by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved, or not at all)
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To: Red Steel
"And it will hit the House with enormous momentum –-"

That rhetoric is funny and kind of gooey, mushy and squishy.

"...momentum which House Speaker John Boehner (who has already called for a dialogue on gun control) may not have the courage to resist."

The author should write romance novels. Boehner pushes for big spending, because that's what his political/regulator class constituents want. They're nearly all dependent on government for their incomes, but they also like their firearms. Gun control bills will receive the same treatment we saw during the last four years.

Post the bills here. Write your members of Congress. Post the roll call votes here.


34 posted on 01/08/2013 5:23:27 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: mrsmith
I found this earlier today, and according to this lefty article and website:

The Starting Line – Both California Senators Blocking Filibuster Reform

by Doug Porter on January 7, 2013 · 1 comment

"Two of the leaders of the effort to reform Senate filibuster rules, Sens. Jeff Merkley of Oregon and Tom Udall of New Mexico, are now saying that 48 senators have confirmed their support for making the filibuster a real, talking filibuster. Further, all 48 have committed to reforming the filibuster by using the “constitutional option”—that is, by changing the rules of the Senate with a simple majority of 50 votes plus the Vice President.

There are seven Democratic members of the Senate who have not yet committed to reforming the filibuster in this way: Sens. Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein of California, Carl Levin of Michigan, Max Baucus of Montana, Jack Reed of Rhode Island, and Patrick Leahy of Vermont.

You (should) know what to do. Contact Sens. Boxer & Feinstein today. Let’s get this done."

48 Sen Dims without Feinstein?

35 posted on 01/08/2013 5:34:32 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: Noumenon

yep, many places are going to loose their whole swat team to an ambush in their first few missions. They really have not done the math, “1 little, 2 little, 3 little indians” is going to be a big problem for them too.


36 posted on 01/08/2013 5:35:31 PM PST by ClayinVA ("Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it")
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To: Happy Rain

“So you are glad Juan loss and Obama won?”

I’m sad that the RINOPublican party runs RINOs that cannot win and consequently allowed Obama to win.

I also prefer an enemy I can oppose to a friend who stabs me in the back. In that sense, I’m glad Juan lost.

In either case, both parties have participated in debasing the dollar, circumvented our Constitutional Rights, and enslaved generations with their borrowing and spending. Both are guilty.

Juan was just one more loser RINO in a very long list of RINOs. RINOmney was the latest. He spent $1BILLION and couldn’t even communicate why getting free stuff was a worse choice than freedom and opportunity.


37 posted on 01/08/2013 5:49:11 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: Red Steel

Commie McCain rides again.


38 posted on 01/08/2013 5:51:35 PM PST by bmwcyle (We have gone over the cliff and we are about to hit the bottom)
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To: Red Steel
McCAIN MAY BE WORKING TO STAB US IN THE BACK

McCain also told us we don't have to be afraid of an Obama presidency.

39 posted on 01/08/2013 5:54:01 PM PST by bgill (We've passed the point of no return. Welcome to Al Amerika.)
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To: Red Steel; All

But we need to propose something which will pass the Senate.

This is the mistake we always make and each time they
nibble a little bit more off the top.

If they want to do something, amend the constitution,
there is a process for that. Not this eating around the
edges until nothing is left, then what?
Just declare the 2nd amendment null and void?
It’s a shale slope and democrats want us to step
out a little further off solid rock. Don’t do it.


40 posted on 01/08/2013 5:57:34 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

The only vote I ever cast that I regret. I was suckered into voting for him by Sarah Palin. And it’s obvious I wasted my vote.


41 posted on 01/08/2013 6:01:59 PM PST by Terry Mross ( I post so people who hate me will know what I think. And they can't seem to stop reading. LOL)
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To: Jim Noble

And so are all the conveniences that allow them to be so confident. Ever have so many small, usually insignificant things go wrong at once that you felt that you must have a Kick Me sign on your back. If that happens over and over, and costs a little money when it does, nerves start to get raw. You start thinking about what you ought to do different. You go on defense.


42 posted on 01/08/2013 6:04:37 PM PST by APatientMan (Pick a side)
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To: Happy Rain; aMorePerfectUnion
So you are glad Juan loss and Obama won?

It is a valid opinion that the 2008 election offered a choice between two men who, if elected, would likely become The Worst President In The History of The United States.

John Sidney McCain is a vindictive, narrow-minded and tyrannical opportunist who could've destroyed the USA by accident. Barack Hussein Obama, of course, is even worse.

43 posted on 01/08/2013 6:07:21 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: Terry Mross
Terry, You wrote, "The only vote I ever cast that I regret. I was suckered into voting for him by Sarah Palin. And it’s obvious I wasted my vote."

+1

44 posted on 01/08/2013 6:16:27 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international. Gone.)
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To: LibLieSlayer

“It will not make it through the House regardless. FU mccain.”

We’ve been screwed so often by our “friends” that getting blindsided would not be surprizing.


45 posted on 01/08/2013 6:25:41 PM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
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To: Norm Lenhart

Bingo.


46 posted on 01/08/2013 6:27:23 PM PST by Godebert (No Person Except a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!)
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To: Darksheare
RINOs ALWAYS act in this fashion. Is anyone actually surprised?

I guess the only ones surprised are Sarah Palin and the Republican primary voters in AZ.

47 posted on 01/08/2013 6:29:37 PM PST by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: Texas Fossil

I picture in the same position as Mussolini’s wife upside down on a telephone pole.


48 posted on 01/08/2013 6:29:51 PM PST by Renegade
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To: Red Steel

I’m not sure a rules change matters because McC never does filibusters anyway. He goes back to Louisville every weekend, or did.


49 posted on 01/08/2013 6:32:14 PM PST by Theodore R. ("Hey, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: ClayinVA

And guess who will end up with the swat teams full auto toys and other goodies!


50 posted on 01/08/2013 6:32:31 PM PST by Renegade
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