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THE AR-15: THE GUN LIBERALS LOVE TO HATE
Human Events ^ | 1/2/2013 | David Keene

Posted on 01/02/2013 3:29:20 PM PST by neverdem

The AR-15: The gun liberals love to hate

Politician after politician have joined the television talking heads in calling for a new “assault weapons ban” patterned after the ten-year Clinton ban that was allowed to lapse in 2004 after Justice Department and private studies concluded it had no impact whatsoever on murder and violent crime rates and had become a symbol of wrong-headed governmental attempts to restrict firearms ownership in this country.

California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein has called for reinstituting the old Clinton ban to outlaw the sale, transfer and possession of such guns in the future while grandfathering those already in the hands of private parties. Others, like New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, have gone so far as to suggest “confiscation” or forced “buy back” programs “to get these weapons off the street.” In the last week dozens of commentators, reporters and politicians have said they support the 2nd Amendment, but would support an “assault weapons” ban because such weapons aren’t used for hunting and have no purpose other than to kill people.

While such suggestions reflect a simple minded and narrow understanding of why the founders included the Second Amendment in our Bill of Rights, they also suggest that those making them neither understand the nature of the firearms they would ban, their popularity or legitimate uses.

Those who would ban what they like to call assault weapons like to portray them as automatic weapons designed for use on the battlefield simply because they look cosmetically like their military counterparts. In fact, they are semi-automatic firearms that are designed and built not for the military, but for the civilian market and function differently than their military counterparts. Were our soldiers outfitted with ARs, they would be at the mercy of every army in the world.

The more than three million Americans who currently own AR-15s must wonder if any of these people know what they’re talking about. These guns are not cheap, but they have been the best-selling long arm in this country for some years. Those three million people didn’t buy have purchased them just to look at or because they are planning to use them to kill their fellow citizens.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation has surveyed the purchasers of AR-15s. The AR-15 is the most commonly used rifle for marksmanship training and competition. Nearly 90% of those who own an AR-15 use it for recreational target shooting; 51% of AR owners are members of shooting clubs and visit the range regularly. The typical AR owner is not a crazed teenage psychopath, but a 35+ year old, married and has some college education.

The popularity of the AR can be traced in part to the fact that it is a semi-automatic version of the rifle used by the men and women of the military. Nearly half of AR owners are veterans, law enforcement officers, or both. It is a configuration they are familiar with and enjoy shooting. My daughter, for example, served two tours in Iraq, one in Afghanistan, and only owns one gun — an AR.

AR 15s are good for hunting. Some buy an AR for home defense and about six percent of buyers are either collectors or varmint hunters. The standard AR is illegal in most states for deer and big game hunting because it is not considered powerful enough to reliably put down deer-sized or larger game, but is used for coyote, wolf and feral pig hunting in many states.

So the evidence tells us that although Sen. Feinstein and her friends may not know it, millions of Americans buy these guns because they like to shoot them and use them lawfully. The fact that a half dozen out of more than three million have been misused after illegally falling into the hands of crazed killers does not seem to be a reason to ban the popular gun according to most Americans asked in a recent USA Today poll.

These guns are not the weapon of choice for this nation’s criminals or killers. Indeed, the FBI found that in 2010, the last year for which data is available, more people were beaten to death than killed with all long guns including these so-called assault weapons.

It is true that the Supreme Court has left the door open for “reasonable” restrictions on firearms sales. There is good reason, for example, to keep guns out of the hands of felons, those who have been adjudicated as mentally incompetent, or unsupervised children. However there is no evidence whatever to suggest that a ban on the AR 15 or other semi-automatic firearms can be constitutionally justified just so politicians can say they have done something to satisfy the natural public desire act in the face of a tragedy like Newtown. A renewal of a juiced up version of the old Clinton “assault weapons” ban would no doubt make Sen. Feinstein and her friends feel good and deny millions of law abiding Americans the right to own and enjoy a gun protected by the Second Amendment,, but would do absolutely nothing to prevent future tragedies.


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: ar15; banglist; democrats; feinstein; fufeinstein; guncontrol; secondamendment; youwillnotdisarmus
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1 posted on 01/02/2013 3:29:34 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Thank God I sold all my ARs to some guy in a bar.


2 posted on 01/02/2013 3:34:26 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: ozzymandus

I sold mine to some Mexicans. (Just doing what my government does). They said they didn’t need a receipt.


3 posted on 01/02/2013 3:36:29 PM PST by clintonh8r (Happy to be represented by Lt. Col. Allen West)
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To: neverdem

I never much cared for them, prefer an M1 or M14.


4 posted on 01/02/2013 3:39:29 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: clintonh8r

LOL

That’s funny in any language.


5 posted on 01/02/2013 3:44:06 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: neverdem

The .223 is kind of an underpowered cartridge.


6 posted on 01/02/2013 3:44:51 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: neverdem
The standard AR is illegal in most states for deer and big game hunting because it is not considered powerful enough

Is that true, really? Seemed to be rather powerful in Sandy Hook. Would certainly depend on caliber and grain.

7 posted on 01/02/2013 3:45:13 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: steve86

I don’t think any state allows a .223 for deer.

You can use them for coyote, hogs and varmints though.


8 posted on 01/02/2013 3:52:37 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: TigersEye

Here is an interesting article about the 5.56.
Not as underpowered as some think.

http://www.futurefirepower.com/myths-about-the-nato-556-cartridge


9 posted on 01/02/2013 3:55:59 PM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

I’m thinking it is the small diameter of the projectile rather than the force behind it that is the problem?


10 posted on 01/02/2013 3:56:07 PM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
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To: TigersEye

That is why I stick to the 5.56mm and assault clips. Way more powerful.


11 posted on 01/02/2013 4:00:59 PM PST by eartick
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To: steve86

Mainly it’s the weight of the bullet. Heavier bullets are better, but there’s only so much you can do in a small caliber.


12 posted on 01/02/2013 4:04:54 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: Clint N. Suhks
I don’t think any state allows a .223 for deer.

.30 caliber minimum in this state for big game. I tend toward the .45-70. That solves most problems, including unwanted motor vehicles.

13 posted on 01/02/2013 4:05:33 PM PST by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: steve86

Exactly correct. It will pass through any part of a deer but a .22 cal doesn’t make a very big hole.


14 posted on 01/02/2013 4:07:13 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: steve86

Normal 223 ammo uses a 55-grain bullet. They make 80-grain bullets for it but the rifle needs a faster twist barrel to stabilize it so as to have it shoot accurately, one in eight at least. M16 upper receivers with 1:8 twist barrels aren’t that had to come up with or at least they weren’t prior to a couple of months ago...


15 posted on 01/02/2013 4:07:52 PM PST by varmintman
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To: neverdem

I’m partial to my Mini-14, but I wouldn’t kick an AR out of the gun safe.


16 posted on 01/02/2013 4:08:29 PM PST by IamConservative (The soul of my lifes journey is Liberty!)
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To: neverdem


M4 carbine. Inscribed with "Molon Labe"
17 posted on 01/02/2013 4:08:57 PM PST by caveat emptor (!)
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To: 3Fingas

Interesting article. Thanks for the link.


18 posted on 01/02/2013 4:09:22 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Clint N. Suhks

You don’t use the full metal jacket ammo for hunting, you use a ballistic or soft point bullet which expands to two or three times it’s original diameter.


19 posted on 01/02/2013 4:10:35 PM PST by varmintman
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To: Clint N. Suhks
"I don’t think any state allows a .223 for deer."

In Pennsylvania, the only requirement for deer and black bear in regular firearms season is that it is a centerfire round with a projectile designed to expand (i.e. no FMJ). If so inclined, you could use a .17 Remington for black bear. Muzzle loading long guns must be a minimum of .44 and muzzle loading handguns must be at least .50.

There is limited hunting of the PA elk herd, and IIRC, there is a .270/130gr. minimum for them.

20 posted on 01/02/2013 4:11:23 PM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: eartick

You should upgrade the lethality with a flash suppressor and pistol grip too. Almost no force short of a super volcano could stop you with that kind of power in your hands.


21 posted on 01/02/2013 4:13:36 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: neverdem

They don’t care what AR’s are used for. The object is illegality, confiscation, mass murder and mass imprisonment.

It’s hard to have absolute power over people that can shoot you from 500m even while you are surrounded by a platoon or armed security.


22 posted on 01/02/2013 4:14:44 PM PST by Ajnin (Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnocet!)
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To: neverdem

I oppose banning ARs and other so-called assault weapons, but is it really the case that our soldiers would be at the mercy of every other army in the world if they had civilian AR-15s? Yes, I know that military rifles have a full-auto setting, but as I understand it from talking to a friend who serves in the Army, our guys almost never use the full auto setting in combat because it’s wasteful and less accurate.

Maybe the author was speaking of other differences.


23 posted on 01/02/2013 4:15:43 PM PST by Aetius
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To: All

what makes the so much more lethal is the dreaded “barrel shroud”. I hear it’s also responsible for global warming.


24 posted on 01/02/2013 4:16:56 PM PST by newnhdad (Our new motto: USA, it was fun while it lasted.)
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To: varmintman

I understand that. But I’d bet any mushroomed .223 round would still go through a deer.


25 posted on 01/02/2013 4:18:41 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: Joe 6-pack

PA you can use .223 for deer? That’s unusual.


26 posted on 01/02/2013 4:22:59 PM PST by Clint N. Suhks
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To: tet68

“...I never much cared for them, prefer an M1 or M14....”

Don’t worry...she hates those too.


27 posted on 01/02/2013 4:23:34 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: neverdem

This babes got my back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB7iz1HTh9U


28 posted on 01/02/2013 4:24:15 PM PST by maddog55 (America Rising.... Civil War II)
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To: TigersEye

I thought of that, but I already had a collapsable stock and a sling.

If I put all that on that I thought everyone would think I was too “Ramboish” and scare people off the shooting range......

I am shooting FMJs already and everyone knows they made a movie about those.


29 posted on 01/02/2013 4:25:30 PM PST by eartick
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To: Aetius

Yup. The Brits in the Falklands war used only FN-FAL semi auto version against the Argies FN-FAL with full auto capability. We know how that turned out.


30 posted on 01/02/2013 4:33:29 PM PST by Red Steel
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To: neverdem

Line of the article:

In fact, they are semi-automatic firearms that are designed and built not for the military, but for the civilian market and function differently than their military counterparts. Were our soldiers outfitted with ARs, they would be at the mercy of every army in the world.


31 posted on 01/02/2013 4:42:00 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: neverdem
In the last week dozens of commentators, reporters and politicians have said they support the 2nd Amendment, but would support an “assault weapons” ban because such weapons aren’t used for hunting and have no purpose other than to kill people.

No, their purpose is for fighting, which is why they are so devastating when the only person armed with one is a spree killer.

Only those who fear a fight from law abiding people don't want law abiding people to have them.

32 posted on 01/02/2013 4:43:09 PM PST by papertyger
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To: neverdem

Pardon my ignorant question but I have only seen the AR’s sold in NJ..They have a selector for “safe” and “semi” only. Is that the same in all other states, only the semi-auto version can be sold?


33 posted on 01/02/2013 4:44:41 PM PST by jughandle
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To: steve86

Kids in a closed environment setting up close could have been killed with a slingshot. Don’t kid yourself.


34 posted on 01/02/2013 4:45:34 PM PST by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: eartick

Sound wisdom! Besides, if you put all of those accessories on you would complete the synaptic circuits and your AR would start thinking and plotting all by itself.


35 posted on 01/02/2013 4:46:08 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: tet68

***I never much cared for them, prefer an M1 or M14.***

If Winchester had gotten the contract instead of COLT, back in the 1960s, the 5.56 mm it would look like a M1 carbine.


36 posted on 01/02/2013 4:51:19 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (REOPEN THE CLOSED MENTAL INSTITUTIONS! Damn the ACLU!)
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To: Aetius
Yes, I know that military rifles have a full-auto setting, but as I understand it from talking to a friend who serves in the Army, our guys almost never use the full auto setting in combat because it’s wasteful and less accurate.

That is correct. Full auto is basically for getting your a$$ out of seriously deep yogurt.

37 posted on 01/02/2013 4:51:19 PM PST by papertyger
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To: Clint N. Suhks

Arkansas does an I think Texas also does allow it.


38 posted on 01/02/2013 4:51:59 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (REOPEN THE CLOSED MENTAL INSTITUTIONS! Damn the ACLU!)
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To: jughandle
Is that the same in all other states, only the semi-auto version can be sold?

If you're talking off the rack sales, and not 10 or 12 thousand dollar transfers from a pre-1986 private owner, yes: that is correct.

39 posted on 01/02/2013 4:56:30 PM PST by papertyger
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To: jughandle
Is that the same in all other states, only the semi-auto version can be sold?

If you're talking off the rack sales, and not 10 or 12 thousand dollar transfers from a pre-1986 private owner, yes: that is correct.

40 posted on 01/02/2013 4:56:36 PM PST by papertyger
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To: jughandle

Basically yes. But there are other details.


41 posted on 01/02/2013 4:59:26 PM PST by davetex (Sick of moochers)
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To: Ajnin

You are so right. On New yawns eve there was an info gal for the incoming sheriff here in broward co (FL) who was repeated on every radio newscast. The message was that you should not fire guns in the air and that an even better option was to “turn in your weapons”. While she did not tell anyone where to go to turn them in, the implications were clear. If she could have seen my hand gestures when her words were broadcast, my suggestion as to where she might go would have been quite clear as well.


42 posted on 01/02/2013 5:00:10 PM PST by lovesdogs
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
If Winchester had gotten the contract instead of COLT, back in the 1960s, the 5.56 mm it would look like a M1 carbine.

Spent all day yesterday and part of the previous evening shooting a new AR15. Our purpose was zeroing, and that was totally smooth at both 25 and 100 yards. We used both the .223 it is bored for and the alternate chamber that will fire the .22LR.

There was no "full auto" selection, only "safe" and "fire". One round was all one could get out of one trigger pull.

It would be great for coyotes and other varmints, and there is no deer gun season in Ohio except for shotguns and muzzle-loaders. All of us shooting were within a 5 inch circle after it was zeroed, so it would be an ideal varmint rifle.

Surprisingly, not one of us decided to commit mass homicide. /sarcasm

43 posted on 01/02/2013 5:00:25 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: TigersEye

62-grain 5.56 fixes that problem.


44 posted on 01/02/2013 5:06:36 PM PST by MaxMax (Gun free zones was the invitation to gun bans)
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To: Clint N. Suhks; JOE6PAK

http://www.nrahuntersrights.org/Article.aspx?id=6148

From the article:

“Interestingly, Pennsylvania allows the use of some .223s, but bans others — .223s with bolt actions are legal, but not semi-automatics like the AR-15.

“The law’s been on the books for a long time,” noted Jerry Feaser, press secretary for the Pennsylvania Game Commission. “But hunters can use semi-automatic shotguns for taking small game and waterfowl.”

Apparently Pennsylvania is concerned about deer hunters “blazing away” with semi-automatic firearms—a concern other states don’t share.”


45 posted on 01/02/2013 5:11:15 PM PST by carriage_hill ("I meant to say maggot, but I have a lisp.")
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To: neverdem
Dr. Suzanna Hupp Testimony (Better Quality) to Congress on the Second Amendment

The last few seconds are priceless!

46 posted on 01/02/2013 5:11:48 PM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: MaxMax

A 123 gr 7.62X39 is nice for a medium powered rifle cartridge.


47 posted on 01/02/2013 5:12:51 PM PST by TigersEye (Who is John Galt?)
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To: eartick

I have also found that the black or camo AR’s are even more powerful. I’ll bet if it had a bayonet lug on it you could drop a blue whale from 100 miles away.


48 posted on 01/02/2013 5:15:52 PM PST by Dutch Boy
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To: davetex; papertyger

Thanks, kinda what I thought.


49 posted on 01/02/2013 5:18:23 PM PST by jughandle
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To: TigersEye; eartick

Don’t forget what a Collapsible Stock, Bipod, Flashlight and Laser will do to make that .556 Round go through an M1 Tank like a hot knife through Butter.

Remember, if you paint an AR Semi Automatic Rifle (Evil Assault Weapon with a mind of its own) anything but Black, Muzzle Velocity is compromised.

I’m looking for the ‘Libtards and Guns” Wikipedia page to do some updating.


50 posted on 01/02/2013 5:27:18 PM PST by Kickass Conservative (I don't Trust a Government that doesn't Trust me. How about you Comrade?)
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