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Study questions value of mammography screening [Obamacare War on Women]
LA TIMES ^ | November 21, 2012 | Monte Morin

Posted on 11/23/2012 1:31:04 AM PST by SoFloFreeper

About a third of all tumors discovered in routine mammography screenings are unlikely to result in illness, according to a new study that says 30 years of the breast cancer exams have resulted in the overdiagnosis of 1.3 million American women.

The report, published Thursday in the New England Journal of Medicine, argues that the increase in breast cancer survival rates over the last few decades is due mostly to improved therapies and not screenings, which are intended to flag tumors when they are small and most susceptible to treatment. Instead, the widespread use of mammograms now results in the overdiagnosis of breast cancer in roughly 70,000 patients each year, needlessly exposing those women to the cost and trauma of treatment, the authors wrote.

"Our study raises serious questions about the value of screening mammography," wrote Dr. H. Gilbert Welch, an epidemiology and biostatistics professor at Dartmouth College's Geisel School of Medicine. "It clarifies that the benefit of mortality reduction is probably smaller, and the harm of overdiagnosis probably larger, than has been previously recognized."

(Excerpt) Read more at touch.latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: health
Watch for Obamugabe's health czar to issue edicts regarding breast exams....
1 posted on 11/23/2012 1:31:17 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

Well, OBVIOUSLY, Bill Clinton has had no input. He’d volunteer to do ALL the exams. . . personally (evil grin)


2 posted on 11/23/2012 1:45:48 AM PST by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: SoFloFreeper

It’s better to have an encapsulated tumor/lump than to have it burst under the hefty pressure of a mammogram machine.

My mom and her mom were mammogram junkies and both ended up with mastectomies.

I’ve had maybe 3 in my whole life and do not intend to ever have another one.

Why would I want to constantly irradiate myself and increase my chances?


3 posted on 11/23/2012 2:07:09 AM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep. Anthony Douglas Williams)
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To: Salamander

I’m with you. I think those damn machines can give people cancer. It’s like putting your tits through a washing machine wringer. Whomever invented it hates women. Can you imagine a man having to put his wiener in a machine and then having it flattened by crushing it, just to check for cancer? Neither can I. Whomever invented those machines is a sadist.


4 posted on 11/23/2012 3:05:34 AM PST by gemoftheocean (...geez, this all seems so straight forward and logical to me...)
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To: gemoftheocean

Medicine apparently needs some technical engineers who can design a machine or process that can diagnose the disease without causing temporary discomfort.

And better tasting castor oil.

By the way, any of you ladies ever get a PROSTATE exam? Having another man ram his finger into your hinder isn’t a joy ride, I can testify.


5 posted on 11/23/2012 3:24:26 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: gemoftheocean

Actually, having their testicles crushed would be a more anatomically analogous example.

[yeah, guys...ponder that for a bit]

From what I’ve read, sonograms are just as effective and totally painless.

And lots cheaper.

But we can’t have that now, can we?

Doc needs a new Beemer.


6 posted on 11/23/2012 3:30:31 AM PST by Salamander (If animals could speak, mankind would weep. Anthony Douglas Williams)
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To: SoFloFreeper
They already have. No mammograms covered by health insurance/Obamacare until age 50. The question is: does a woman have breast cancer or doesn't she? They are saying mammograms ‘over diagnose’ breast cancer. With Government run health care, ‘Obamacare’, the government doesn't care if you live, when you are near or past the point where you are still paying into the system.
7 posted on 11/23/2012 4:13:36 AM PST by originalbuckeye
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To: SoFloFreeper
"About a third of all tumors discovered in routine mammography screenings are unlikely to result in illness"

This also means that about two thirds of all tumors discovered in routine mammography screenings are likely to result in illness. This seems to me to be a highly successful rate of diagnosis. I would pay for it any day.

8 posted on 11/23/2012 4:18:56 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: Salamander

I had my baseline mammogram done, and it was awful! Painful! I had my last 4 babies at home without any meds, I am no pansy, but having my boobs crushed... I had tears streaming down my face. It was pure torture.

I like the idea of sonography MUCH better.


9 posted on 11/23/2012 4:19:57 AM PST by Marie Antoinette (:)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Could you please provide a working link.


10 posted on 11/23/2012 4:34:11 AM PST by FarmerW ( - Milton Friedman - The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

“About a third of all tumors discovered in routine mammography screenings are unlikely to result in illness,”

So two thirds do.


11 posted on 11/23/2012 4:37:44 AM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Salamander

The idea that a tumor is ‘burst’ from a mammogram machine is a false idea. Breast cancer isn’t a cyst or cystlike in anyway.

While the effects of radiation are serious and limiting exposure to radiation something we should all do, in all regards, there is no evidence that a reasonable amount of mammograms cause an increase in breast cancer. I wouldn’t limit my time on a plane to avoid radiation, but I wouldn’t play with radion because it makes a good toy either.

That being said, I think we likely do get too many mammograms on a whole. I believe age should be a limit at the high end. If you make it to breast cancer free 80 years and you are doing monthly exams, I doubt the need for annual mam’s. Perhaps yearly is more than necessary for younger low risk woman too.

I think overall generalizations of Mammograms = Bad or Reducing Mammograms = Obamacare are both fallicies.


12 posted on 11/23/2012 4:42:51 AM PST by FarmerW ( - Milton Friedman - The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

soon medical care will be a reward, not universal


13 posted on 11/23/2012 4:43:08 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Sounds like the system is seizing up.


14 posted on 11/23/2012 4:48:33 AM PST by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: Salamander

Early detected cancers start people on the path for cancer treatments such as chemo, when the body may have self corrected on its own. I don’t find this information to be a war on women so much as a better understanding of when to intervene.


15 posted on 11/23/2012 4:57:36 AM PST by ican'tbelieveit (School is prison for children who have commited the crime of being born. (attr: St_Thomas_Aquinas))
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To: Marie Antoinette
I had my baseline mammogram done, and it was awful! Painful! I had my last 4 babies at home without any meds, I am no pansy, but having my boobs crushed... I had tears streaming down my face. It was pure torture.

You *do* have the option of telling the tech that the machine is pressing too hard. I have had techs instruct me to tell them when to stop moving the top plate down. The correct amount of pressure should be uncomfortable, not painful. I was so much not in pain during my last mammography that I was asking the tech about the challenges of doing mammography on men (they can and do get breast cancer, and a mammogram helps to diagnose a suspicious lump).

The newer mammography machines use a lower dose of Xrays than ever; the last time I had a mammography, the tech did not even leave the room. They are also digital, making the image easier to read for the radiologist.

My grandmother had breast cancer, although we aren't sure whether that is what killed her. My mother in law had breast cancer, which, even after mastectomy, spread into her bones and lungs and most definitely did kill her.

From the article above, I see that 140,000 women every year are diagnosed with breast cancer through mammography. I question the 70,000 "overdiagnosis" estimate; the article didn't explain at all what that means (at least, not to my satisfaction as a medical researcher who needs all the technical details before rendering judgment). From a medical point of view, I do not see that a rate of false positives is really a reason to discontinue a method of screening. There is no medical screening procedure that is 100% accurate.

16 posted on 11/23/2012 4:58:24 AM PST by exDemMom (Now that I've finally accepted that I'm living a bad hair life, I'm more at peace with the world.)
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To: Salamander

No, it ISN’T like having your testicles crushed. Not at all.

Testicles can, as Eddie Murphy once observed, merely be “grazed” and pain can be felt. They are much more sensitive than breasts.

My point, though, was that the coming restrictions on health care will come via these types of “studies” allowing the Obama Health Czar to stop life saving treatment.

I cannot remember the name of the breast cancer drug, but Obama’s FDA recently put the brakes on its supply....Fox did a few stories on it...but rationing IS coming via government edict, NOT market supply and demand.


17 posted on 11/23/2012 5:04:43 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: FarmerW

I just checked it...try this:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-73409495/


18 posted on 11/23/2012 5:11:19 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: FarmerW; Salamander
The idea that a tumor is ‘burst’ from a mammogram machine is a false idea. Breast cancer isn’t a cyst or cystlike in anyway.

Thank you. I was just about to post something similar.

That being said, I think we likely do get too many mammograms on a whole. I believe age should be a limit at the high end. If you make it to breast cancer free 80 years and you are doing monthly exams, I doubt the need for annual mam’s. Perhaps yearly is more than necessary for younger low risk woman too.

I agree. And I would add that aggressive treatment for breast cancer in a woman 80 years old or older may well kill her more quickly than the actual disease – there comes a point of diminishing returns.

Women under 40 or even 50 probably don’t need a yearly mammogram unless they have a maternal family history of breast cancer or are otherwise in a high risk group. But I will also add that this is always true. My ex-husband’s niece was in her mid 30’s when she was diagnosed. Unfortunately while a mammogram found a small lump, her doctor told her to wait and have another mammogram in a year to “see if it grew”. The tumor did grow and aggressively and by the time she finally went to another doctor, it was too late. After a double mastectomy and chemo, she died a few years later. The mammogram could have saved her life if her first doctor had not taken a “let’s wait and see” attitude.

I think overall generalizations of Mammograms = Bad or Reducing Mammograms = Obamacare are both fallicies.

If I understand correctly, preventative services including mammograms are covered and actually expanded under the “Affordable Care Act”. There was a few years ago a “recommendation” that women under 50 did not statistically benefit from mammograms and that there were too many false positives that led to unnecessary biopsies, but that did and does not mean that women under 50 are not covered for mammography. My insurance plan covers it for women under 50 and will continue to do so under Obama Care….at least for now.

19 posted on 11/23/2012 5:35:03 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: SoFloFreeper

Given the government pays for so many meds because the government pays for the medical treatment of so many people, they have become a large part of “the market.”


20 posted on 11/23/2012 5:37:19 AM PST by ican'tbelieveit (School is prison for children who have commited the crime of being born. (attr: St_Thomas_Aquinas))
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To: SoFloFreeper
” Medicine apparently needs some technical engineers who can design a machine or process that can diagnose the disease without causing temporary discomfort.”

***

Under Obamacare, research and development of new tests and treatments will be stymied. After all the resources are used to pay for abortions and free care of aliens, there won't be any money for R&D.

21 posted on 11/23/2012 7:04:14 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: gemoftheocean
Can you imagine a man having to put his wiener in a machine and then having it flattened by crushing it, That is exactly what I told my doctor when he asked me why I never had the test.
22 posted on 11/23/2012 7:11:19 AM PST by SweetCaroline (He is the Antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son. 1-John 2:22)
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To: Marie Antoinette

I will not have a mammogram again. Instinct told me this can’t be good for me. I now do thermography for breast checks.

http://naturalhealthcenter.mercola.com/services/thermography.aspx?s_kwcid=TC|17165|thermography||S|b|11593425544&gclid=CMjPnuOy5bMCFexAMgod1VUAGw


23 posted on 11/23/2012 7:30:55 AM PST by vickixxxx
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To: vickixxxx

While it would be optimal if mammograms caused no discomfort or pain. But sadly compression is necessary for a good image. It isn’t like the people performing the mammogram are sadists.

If medicine had an equally effective method that was less painful they would use it.

On Thermography.
Instincts and feelings are not valid reasons to make medical decisions. We use this new methoid now called “science” /s

FDA Safety Communication: Breast Cancer Screening - Thermography is Not an Alternative to Mammography
Purpose:
The FDA is issuing this communication to alert the public, including women and health care providers, that thermography is not a replacement for screening mammography and should not be used by itself to diagnose breast cancer. The FDA is not aware of any valid scientific data to show that thermographic devices, when used on their own, are an effective screening tool for any medical condition including the early detection of breast cancer or other breast disease.

http://www.fda.gov/MedicalDevices/Safety/AlertsandNotices/ucm257259.htm


24 posted on 11/23/2012 8:29:58 AM PST by FarmerW ( - Milton Friedman - The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem.)
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To: FarmerW

I will go with what is best for me! Science and the medical community have not always been right. I know of many examples in my own life where the doctors were wrong. I had to use my instinct to know to look elsewhere, and I was finally helped!

Another example would be the death of George Washington who was bled to death by doctors thinking they were getting rid of poisons in the blood.

I will never follow blindly what the medical community or the govt. tells me. I do my own research. You sent me an article, but I could send you others stating the opposite.


25 posted on 11/23/2012 8:42:49 AM PST by vickixxxx
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To: SoFloFreeper

“It is estimated that 226,870 women will be diagnosed with and 39,510 women will die of cancer of the breast in 2012... From 2005-2009, the median age at death for cancer of the breast was 68 years of age.” - National Cancer Institute

“It is estimated that 241,740 men will be diagnosed with and 28,170 men will die of cancer of the prostate in 2012... From 2005-2009, the median age at death for cancer of the prostate was 80 years of age.” - National Cancer Institute

From this we can determine that value Obamacare places on the lives of females significantly declines after the age of 60, and for males, after the age of 70.

Obama’s own healthcare czar, Donald Berwick, has been quoted as a big proponent of the rationing of government healthcare services taking them away from the sick and elderly in order to save money.


26 posted on 11/23/2012 9:45:33 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: SweetCaroline
Can you imagine a man having to put his wiener in a machine and then having it flattened by crushing it, That is exactly what I told my doctor when he asked me why I never had the test.

Contrary to what some say, it’s really not that bad. Uncomfortable? Yes. Painful? No. Not really. At least it shouldn’t be. The plates do squeeze and flatten out the breasts quite a bit, more than you’d think is possible and it is very uncomfortable. I would describe it as a dull ache more than anything akin to a sharp or unbearable pain, but they don’t “crush” them and there is no lingering pain or discomfort after the test is done.

When I had my first base line mammogram, the worst part was that after the first image was taken, they told me to sit in the dressing room in case they had to get another image, which they did. And then they called me back in for a third and when I came back into the mammography room the third time, they had an image of my breast with something circled on it. Then they told me the doctor wanted to examine me. That really freaked me out even though my GYN had warned me that might happen with a baseline. The doc at the imaging center performed a thorough breast exam and passed me, telling me it was just a fatty deposit and not a lump but that they would continue to look at it the next time I came in. Even with three mammograms in one day, I didn’t even have any bruising or tenderness afterward.

Many years ago I had a cervical endometrial biopsy with some local anesthetic that evidently didn’t work like it should have. Now that was painful! I’m soon going to have my first colonoscopy. Not looking forward to that, especially the prep 24 hours in advance but it’s worth having done. Having seen a relative die from breast cancer and a friend’s husband from colon cancer, I can say that the diagnostic test was the very least of it.

27 posted on 11/23/2012 10:13:31 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Salamander; Marie Antoinette; vickixxxx

There is a sisterhood of like-thinking gals, like us, out there. I had my last mammogram years ago. My doctor thinks I am a kook .....evidently, some Freepers do too, but it is my life, my decision.


28 posted on 11/23/2012 11:12:35 AM PST by jch10 (7th generation Floridian)
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To: SweetCaroline

I meant to include you too.....sorry.....


29 posted on 11/23/2012 11:14:15 AM PST by jch10 (7th generation Floridian)
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To: vickixxxx; FarmerW
I will never follow blindly what the medical community or the govt. tells me.

But yet you are willing to blindly follow a modern day snake oil salesman?

http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html

30 posted on 11/23/2012 12:24:36 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: MD Expat in PA

OH PLEASE!! I did my research..... many doctors believe in thermography, including mine who helped me recover from Lyme Disease.

11 of your so called expert doctors couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me.

Amazing how you feel the need to put me down. You believe what you what you want to believe and I’ll take care of myself. Not all doctors think alike, you know!!


31 posted on 11/23/2012 2:48:04 PM PST by vickixxxx
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To: jch10

Thank you, Jch10! Amen!


32 posted on 11/23/2012 2:50:02 PM PST by vickixxxx
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To: vickixxxx
Amazing how you feel the need to put me down.

I wasn’t trying to “put you down” but you posted a link to “Dr.” Mercola’s website that is chock full of pseudoscience and unsubstantiated claims about the benefits of thermography, including claims it can diagnose diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, Carpal tunnel syndrome, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, irritable bowel syndrome, diverticulitis, Crohn's disease … and that “inflammation is the culprit responsible or a precursor for many chronic diseases”.

His website also sells all sorts of dietary supplements and creams and a product called “Power Plate” which is some sort of vibration device that he claims is better and more effective than exercise. “Using PrecisionWave™ Technology – a high-fidelity harmonic vibration system – this revolutionary training technique delivers controlled waves of energy racing throughout your body.” All for the amazing discounted price of $7,999.00. Call now, operators are standing by. /sarcasm.

In addition the “Dr.” (actually not an MD BTW, but an Osteopath) sells his own brand of ceramic cookware, claiming that “common metal cookware” is “toxic” and he also sells the “Mercola Vitality Home Tanning Bed” claiming that it is better than sunshine for vitamin D production, actually reverses wrinkles and helps give you more youthful skin and provides temporary relief of muscle and joint pain, stiffness, and spasm and improves blood circulation (oh and you can get a nice tan from it). That’s right, mammograms are bad but tanning beds are good for you, well at least he claims his are good for you.

Among the “services” other than thermography offered at Dr. Mercola's Natural Health Center are: Detoxification, Chiropractic, Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), Homeopathy, Neuro-Structural Integration Technique (NST), Nutritional Typing Test, Total Body Modification (TBM), Active Isolated Stretching (AIS) – all a bunch of hokum to separate fools from their money and even more dangerous, to convince people that they shouldn’t trust modern medicine but instead should buy his products and services for big $$$. He is also anti-vaccination and makes many other ridiculous, false, unscientific and unsubstantiated claims, all while trying to sell you expensive products and services that you don’t need. And if that isn’t the definition of modern day snake oil salesman, I don’t know what is.

Thermography does have a place as a legitimate diagnostic tool under some circumstances by those properly trained in its use, but it is not a replacement for mammography along with regular self breast exams for the early detection of breast cancer.

Again, I’m not trying to “put you down”, but you posted a link to the website, and I’m just asking you to more research and to do so with a critical mind, not an emotional mind. Mammograms are not dangerous, they are not really painful, the amount of radiation is not dangerous, they will not “give” you breast cancer, they will not “crush” your breast and spread breast cancer if there is any and are much better at detecting early stage breast cancer than thermography.

Another example would be the death of George Washington who was bled to death by doctors thinking they were getting rid of poisons in the blood.

And what “Dr.” Mercola's Natural Health Center is promoting is the modern equivalent of “blood letting”.

33 posted on 11/24/2012 6:03:20 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: norwaypinesavage

One of my best friends was diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer a month ago. She found the lump during a self exam, and a mammo confirmed it, though only a clear cyst. Rechecked last month and it spread to her chest wall and lympnodes. She had her first chemo 2 weeks ago and is in for a year of hellish treatment, including a bilateral mastectomy.

She’s just 42.


34 posted on 11/24/2012 6:19:05 AM PST by rintense
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