Raw, Unlimited POWER!!! Myyyyyyyy preciousssss....
Posted on 11/21/2012 6:14:03 PM PST by ReaganÜberAlles
"What's wrong with the people choosing their own Senators?
For starters, this amendment strips power from the states, which ultimately strengthens the federal government. This Amendment removes an important check and balance between the federal government and the states."
Too many of the rank and file citizen are too uneducated to realize that the states themselves as an entity need representation too...
...as if an Amendment to the Constitution (or the repeal thereof) would mean any more than the Constitution itself, which, of course, is no longer a “controlling legal authority”..
Too many of the rank and file citizen are too uneducated to realize that the states themselves as an entity need representation too...
Correct! Ironically, this amendment allowing people to vote for senators took power away from the people in each state. The state lost the power of having senators fight for what the states needed, and senators from various states joined together against what their individual states deemed necessary. Do away with this ASAP.
Agree Heartily!
Ping.
Absolutely true! Undermines the Federal System. The House to represent the people, based on population, the Senate to represent the States, with two representatives per, so that the states may maintain what sovreignty they had via the Constitution. That’s exactly how I teach it to my High School senior Government class.
I think we should just redo the whole thing and have the President chosen by the House from amongst the Senators (chosen by state legislatures) and Governors.
But if we could do that, can’t we just abolish the income tax amendment??
For your consideration Cripple.
How might the idea of repeal, as unlikely as it is, alter the outcome of what we do now?
I would say that you would need a state to disobey the 17th amendment and elect senators via the state legislature. This would set up a supreme court case which could negate the 17th amendment. Or since the constitution allows the states to choose senators maybe nothing will happen other than congress not allowing them to be seated. It would be interesting if a state had the cajones to do it.
I’m fer it.
The Supreme Court can't overturn amendments, by definition.
This is yet another stupid waste of time and energy that has zero chance of ever happening.
No. I don’t trust the legislature.
I like your style. I just hope that there is one state that has the nerve to stand up and elect their own senators, and see what happens. Since the 17th was passed in 1913, I would love to see it happen on it’s 100th year anniversary ! !
The 17TH removed a major check of Washington’s power in some very insidious ways. Our supreme Court rules at the pleasure of the Senate. Have you wondered why it seems that even conservative justices trivialize States rights? Our Supreme Court is no longer beholden to the individual states power to appoint the people who can deny their tenure.
Which is why the idea that 2/3rds of the current senators and 75% of state legislatures would approve a repeal of the 17th Amendment is crack-smoking lunacy.
I can tell you precisely what would happen; the Supreme Court would take about 5 minutes to vote 9-0 to send those Senators home.
Under Woodrow Wilson we got the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th Amendments as well as the War on Drugs, the Federal Reserve, and segregation of the military (he was a racist, too). And we thought Obama was bad.
Crack smoking lunacy is clowns who desperately cling to progressive ideas like the 17th amendment snake oil.
The 17th amendment killed the Senate and created two Houses. The Senate was designed to be a direct check on Federal power by making the States part of the Federal government. The first batch of Progressives identified the Senate as the key element of the Republic and they destroyed it.
Utterly and completely idiotic. Why don’t we just have a King??
People should vote for their Representatives ... good or bad. Don’t like it? Then stop pretending you want to live in a democracy.
He genius. You do realize that the constitutional method of choosing senators prior to the progressive 17th amendment was for the state legislatures to choose them?
I’m not “clinging” to the 17th Amendment, I’m just pointing out that it’s politically impossible now, and politically impossible forever, to repeal it.
Here’s a helpful list of everything proposed to help a Republican win the Presidency in 2016 that is impossible, a waste of time, and so stupid because of the impossibility of accomplishing them, it actually is an embarassment to the Right:
1) Trying to get the Electoral College to change their votes
2) Trying to get states like California to change to picking electors by Congressional District.
3) Trying to repeal the 17th Amendment (though amusingly there are people on this thread that somehow it could somehow simply be overturned by the Supreme Court, which is even dumber.)
4) Trying to get “millions” of non-existent Republicans that didn’t vote in 2012 because Romney was a RINO to turn out in 2016.
And here’s a helpful list of things that might actually work:
1) Persuading about 2 million people that voted for Obama in 2012 to vote for the Republican candidate in 2016.
The United States is a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. The Framers of that Constitution created a Federal government, not a central government.
Crack smoking lunacy is the idea that professional career politicians know what's best for us and that state legislatures will select far better Senators than we the people because they're so much wiser and smarter than us, and somehow magically less corrupt and statist than their federal counterparts.
It is the very antithesis of conservatism. Conservatism basically boils down to the concept that we individuals can make the best decisions for what's best for us, NOT the government. To quote Ronald Reagan: Government is the NOT solution to our problems, government IS the problem. It will be a cold day in hell before I give the crooks in my state legislature MORE power over my life.
Thanks. I’ve never heard that explanation. The idea of state legislatures having to work for agreement by maybe sending a senator from each party hadn’t crept into my thick skull.
So the founders were wrong and the progressives got it right?
Great idea. It would mean that people would need to pay attention to who they elect as state representatives.
It is highly reasonable.
Of course we can’t even get rid of Obama — as clear as a case for tossing out a bozo that there ever was — so what are the chances something like this would pass with an electorate of dunderheads?
Hey genius, you do realize that the "constitutional method" of choosing Vice Presidents prior to the 11th amendment was for the runner up in the electoral college to become Vice President?
Should Mitt Romney become Obama's veep because "the founders" set it up that way? Should Al Gore have been Bush's veep? How about putting Walter Mondale a heartbeat away from the Presidency in 1985?
No? So I guess in that case it was OKAY to change what "the founders" set up.
You do realize how idiotic it is to throw a temper tantrum about crooked politicians not being allowed to pick your Senators, by using the argument that it changed what the "founders" set up? Unless you'd like to ALSO repeal the 2nd amendment, 10th amendment, every amendment passed since 1791, etc., your argument is invalid.
Indeed, the founders themselves disagreed with you that their document was perfect as-is, that's why they put a clause in the constitution that allowed it to be amended in the first place.
Stupid idea.
Most states have one party rule guaranteeing that the party in power would only appoint one of their own.
The only cure to our current problem of corrupt senators and representatives is term limits. As of now most of these guys get lifetime jobs once eleceted and are no longer responsible to the people.
Corrupt morons like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Tom Daschle with a few thousand votes become co-presidents for life.
I agree with all your points except the last one. It’s over, we are past the point of no return. Why? Am I a quitter? No.
The communist plan since the 30’s was to take over first our educational system, and slowly brainwash generations of dumbed-down idiots who have a Marxist/atheist world view. Then take over the media to keep them totally brainwashed and away from all truth.
While we slept and had fun, totally blind to what they were doing - they took over.
Now we are being overwhelmed by the third generation of brainwashed kids now getting old enough to vote. From this point, there numbers will only increase. The gov. schools are pumping them out by the millions. As Rush said on Nov. 7th, “We’re outnumbered and losing ground.” From this point, we are simply outnumbered, and their advantage will only increase.
It’s likely that only a total collapse of our system and perhaps our nation will get us back to where there can be a reset.
I wish I were wrong, but no one has yet shown me a plan to overcome this situation. No one. And even if we did have a plan, it would take generations. We don’t have that time.
Bookmark
The 17th amendment was popular vote snake oil and as you can see, the rubes still buy it.
A textbook example of a result of progressive indoctrination masquerading as public education. A major (if not the primary) reason why we will never get out of the hole without a massive upheaval....
There is one party rule now so you opposing this idea is stupid.
I totally agree, you hit the nail on the head. It will only be remedied with total collapse and reset, like you said. (Wish there was a "like" button...)
The Senators, being appointed by the Governors, act as ambassadors for the state. They can’t be voted out, until there is a new governor, but they are sent to represent the interests of the governor’s office. Today, they are influenced SOLELY by special interests on both sides of the aisle.
The Senators, originally, in not having to campaign, could spend their time actually legislating. They could also afford to do unpopular but necessary things. More than that, they could be COMPETENT, rather than telegenic.
The 17th has been a killer, fiscally speaking.
I live in a Republic. You don’t live in a Democracy
While the calls for slant drilling under the great lakes grows louder in Michigan, Debbie Stabenow grows more strident in her opposition to it at the federal level.
I want my local control back.
I agree with you, sir. Adams did too. He said that once you lose freedom, you can’t get it back - you have to start over. It’s just the way it works. It has to fall apart.
It has been ever thus.
Absolutely. All for it!!!
Progressive education is, first of all, an oxymoron. Rather, a great deal of education nowadays doesn’t encourage enough critical thinking. What’s interesting is that the so-called fascists are identical to the communists in 6 out of 10 of the Communist objectives also being true for the fascists, and the remainder only occurring at a milder pace for the fascists. In the sense, fascism is economically speaking, “Soft Communism” however, since an ever-decreasing amount of history nowadays is about critical thinking as opposed to regurgitating facts, we’re in deep trouble.
At this point, it’s pretty much about saving souls far more than saving America.
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