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Reid moves to limit GOP filibusters
Washington Times ^ | 11/7/12 | Stephan Dinan

Posted on 11/07/2012 12:13:12 PM PST by Nachum

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Wednesday that he will try to push through a change to Senate rules that would limit the GOP’s ability to filibuster bills.

Speaking in the wake of Tuesday’s election, which boosted Senate Democrats’ numbers slightly, Mr. Reid said he won’t end filibusters altogether but that the rules need to change so that the minority party cannot use the legislative blocking tool as often.

“I think that the rules have been abused and that we’re going to work to change them,” he told reporters. “Were not going to do away with the filibuster but we’re going to make the Senate a more meaningful place.”

Republicans, who have 47 of the chamber’s 100 seats in this current Congress, have repeatedly used that strong minority to block parts of President Obama’s agenda on everything from added stimulus spending to his judicial picks.

A filibuster takes 60 senators to overcome it.

Leaders of both parties have been reluctant to change the rules because they value it as a tool when they are in the minority.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: filibusters; gop; limit; reid
What goes around, comes around- Harry
1 posted on 11/07/2012 12:13:25 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum

There is a solution to this threat: NO MORE UNANIMOUS CONSENTS!

Have the senate vote on absolutely everything. Get these people on the record for every single vote they take. No voice votes. Yeas and Nays for everything.

And an extra check is the House. No negotiations with the senate before they pass something. Let them pass a bill, get their members on the record, and then the negotiations with the House begin (as is the proper legislative conference process).

Harry Reid hates to have to take votes. He hates having to put his members on the record. And he hates not knowing what’s going to happen ahead of time. He wants himself, Boehner, and Obama to get together, decide what’s going to happen, then ram it through.

The answer to tyranny is regular legislative order, each House acting on its own issues, holding votes on them, then going to conference, agreeing on one common piece of legislation, passing it and THEN sending it to the president. There should be lots of votes, lots of conference committees and lots of votes. Make the senators work for their pay!


2 posted on 11/07/2012 12:17:29 PM PST by cotton1706
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To: Nachum

Harry would sing a different tune if we had taken the Senate yesterday. What a real pathological d$%^che.


3 posted on 11/07/2012 12:25:07 PM PST by Noamie
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To: Nachum
(Don't let Harry Reid read this) There is a simple way to do this without changing the rules. Force actual filibusters. No more mailing in the prepaid reply card with the "Filibuster" block checked. Make the filibustering party actually hold the floor 24 hours a day. Knowing the Republicans, they'll fold sometime around 8:45am.

I told the Republicans the same thing when they held the majority, but I wouldn't expect the Dems to fold that quickly.

4 posted on 11/07/2012 12:29:12 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Big Bird is a brood parasite: laid in our nest 43 years ago and we are still feeding him.)
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To: Nachum

What filibuster?

When was the last time the GOP actually did a real filibuster?


5 posted on 11/07/2012 12:29:54 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL
When was the last time the GOP actually did a real filibuster?

That's what makes this promise such a egregious canard...real, actual filibusters are quite rare. These days, the minority just threatens to filibuster, and the news media runs with that headline as if it has actually happened.
6 posted on 11/07/2012 12:46:54 PM PST by Milton Miteybad (I am Jim Thompson. {Really.})
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To: Nachum

good, let them have their way...and when things fail, they own it.


7 posted on 11/07/2012 12:47:00 PM PST by Florida native
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To: Nachum
Sure Harry wants to limit filibusters. Obama’s win means he owns the economy. That is good. However, I perhaps see two Supreme Court retirees. Change the rules fast to prevent republicans in the Senate from stopping a liberal takeover of the court. Do we have enough fighters in the Senate without a rule change?
8 posted on 11/07/2012 1:00:40 PM PST by Bronzy
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To: Milton Miteybad

Yep.

That is exactly what I was thinking


9 posted on 11/07/2012 1:19:53 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Nachum
What power does Congrease really have?

0m0slem can declare them in recess at will.

10 posted on 11/07/2012 1:21:34 PM PST by rawcatslyentist ("Behold, I am against you, O arrogant one," Jeremiah 50:31)
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To: cotton1706
that would require harry to give a damn about actually doing the will of the people rather than just what he wants. those people are not at all interested in cooperating, the 50% who lost the election last night can go die and rot for all he cares.

not gonna happen

11 posted on 11/07/2012 1:24:48 PM PST by FunkyZero (... I've got a Grand Piano to prop up my mortal remains)
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To: FunkyZero

We have two legislative bodies for a reason. The House has an enormous amount of power. But it takes a peron of determination and will, such as a Gingrich, to wield it. Boehner seems to have ceded all legislative authority and power to the senate and specifically, to Harry Reid. Reid can’t do crap without the House acting, either before or after the senate. The House conservatives need to have the balls to start voting down bills, and furthermore, sending to the senate, bills whose funding is well below the senate’s desired levels.

Leave the president completly out of it until the legislative process is oomplete. The Speaker of the House is a far more powerful position than the Senate Majority Leader. Boehner needs to be willing to use that power, or step aside for someone who is.


12 posted on 11/07/2012 1:32:16 PM PST by cotton1706
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To: Nachum

Abuse of the filibuster process? Does anyone remember the Bush years?


13 posted on 11/07/2012 1:46:28 PM PST by logic101.net (Support OUR troops, NOT their's!)
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To: cotton1706
Boehner needs to be willing to use that power, or step aside for someone who is.

What is the job of the (R)s in Congress? They are the other faction in the corrupt "Two-Party Cartel". In the end the elites get whatever they want & you lose your money & liberties.

14 posted on 11/07/2012 1:53:50 PM PST by Digger
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To: KarlInOhio

8:45AM? Does Congress start at 8:30? My guess is it’ll end at 3:30PM, the filibuster having started after lunch at 1:30. It’ll start after lunch, so there’s time in the morning to tell everybody not to show up in the afternoon. 3:30 leaves time to get to the bathroom, before the slow stroll to happy hour at the bar.


15 posted on 11/07/2012 2:08:27 PM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard to be cynical enough in this age.)
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To: Nachum
Republicans, who have 47 of the chamber’s 100 seats in this current Congress,

How many seats did we lose yesterday??

16 posted on 11/07/2012 2:37:03 PM PST by ExCTCitizen (Conservatives needs to listen to the people...Social issues lost votes for the GOP)
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To: cotton1706
I have no arguments with anything you stated, all factual. I was simply stating some other facts. Reid doesn't have any intention of cooperating, he simply does not care.

I see the root cause of this division pointing directly at 50+ years of conservatives being far too flexible. Only in the past 10-15 years have they finally started pushing back and digging in their heels. It does not work both ways for these people, they have a very successful method of distributing misinformation and painting conservatives with descriptions that mush-headed voters actually believe. I mean, some of this sh#$@ is downright ridiculous...

I mean, I'm a VERY conservative republican and I don't drag black people from the bumper of my truck and I'd stand in the path of anyone who thinks it's ok. I have no interest in "setting women back 100 years", I have no interest in telling them how to manage their bodies and reproductive organs... I don't bully homo's at work, I don't want poor people to starve, rich people to have 99.9% of all the wealth, I don't' want people to die for lack of healthcare, I don't hate people because of where they were born... this list is miles long and neither you nor I look like the picture these demons have painted.

But unfortunately, they have succeeded. They have done major damage to our country and our individual sovereignty all in the name of winning the football game. I mean, it is SO out of control, Obama could literally commit murder, admit it live on CNN and his polling numbers wouldn't change. Look at Jesse Jackson Jr. The man is a mental disaster, unable to serve anyone right now including himself. He's most likely committed several felonies and is under investigation for them... he just won an ELECTION.

I've completely lost faith at this point. It's not humiliating, its actually very sad. But the reality is, they now outnumber us and there is no reversing it. When blacks vote at a rate of 94% based on skin color, what are we to gain? People are uninterested in the final score, they only care about what they can get right now. Politicians see us as idiots, and for the most part, we are. We just re-elected a president who is projected to be running a 20 TRILLION dollar deficit by the end of his term and all they were interested in was Romney's dog riding on top of his car and what tax rate he paid on his personal income. Face it man, we are done.

17 posted on 11/07/2012 3:58:05 PM PST by FunkyZero (... I've got a Grand Piano to prop up my mortal remains)
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To: Nachum

What goes around!!! (See my Tagline)


18 posted on 11/07/2012 5:19:22 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Think 2014)
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To: sickoflibs; NFHale; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy

We used to say that that amnesty would not pass because:

1) The GOP would not pass it in the House

2) It would be filibustered in the senate.

Now, Boehner says he will make a “comprehensive immigration” deal with Obama and Reid is working on the filibuster rule


19 posted on 11/12/2012 6:34:44 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; NFHale; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; BillyBoy; ...
RE :”We used to say that that amnesty would not pass because: 1) The GOP would not pass it in the House, 2) It would be filibustered in the senate.
Now, Boehner says he will make a “comprehensive immigration” deal with Obama and Reid is working on the filibuster rule”

#1 Bohner is a very weak leader who's track record the past two years as Speaker is pathetic. It has been a disaster. In comparision Look how Pelosi handled a similar situation for her in 2005 and 2006.

#2 Republicans got their clocks cleaned last Tuesday not only Romney but the House AND Senate when they original expected to take control of the Senate.

Keep in mind and you know it, many Republicans thought they were going to get huge win on election night till Hume and Ingraham on FNC started talking about a possible defeat election night. Although at least one here told me he only said it but he never believed it ??/

Now the talk is about stolen votes (all the swing states??) and possible impeachment.

the party is in complete disarray. Don't expect anything good anytime soon. I cant be optimistic at the moment.

BTW : You were NOT one of the Pollyanna's, your expectations were more realistic,

20 posted on 11/12/2012 6:50:56 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; sickoflibs; NFHale; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy
RE :”Now, Boehner says he will make a “comprehensive immigration” deal with Obama and Reid is working on the filibuster rule”

Technically Reid would need 60 or 2/3rds to change that rule as I recall. Plus it would backfire if the GOP won the Senate back next year.

Back around 2006 Levin argued that the GOP should declare the filibuster of judges unconditional and change the rule with only 50+. But the gang of 14 killed that bad idea and they lost the Senate soon after anyway.

21 posted on 11/12/2012 7:01:33 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: sickoflibs
-- Technically Reid would need 60 or 2/3rds to change that rule as I recall. --

Two thirds of those present and voting. The "60" is three fifths of members sworn, and is a fixed number.

There is a good argument that a simple majority can change the rules, at the beginning of a session. The nuclear option that was bandied about in 2006 was a parliamentary move, other than at the start of a session.

It's funny how the headline is phrase in terms of limiting GOP obstruction. Am I to take it that DEM obstruction is to continue unimpeded?

Anyway, the Senate is an utterly dysfunctional legislative body.

22 posted on 11/12/2012 7:07:43 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; sickoflibs; NFHale; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; ...
RE :”Two thirds of those present and voting. The “60” is three fifths of members sworn, and is a fixed number.
There is a good argument that a simple majority can change the rules, at the beginning of a session. The nuclear option that was bandied about in 2006 was a parliamentary move, other than at the start of a session.”

Thanks, I couldnt remember which it was and was too lazy to look it up.

The contrary argument I heard is that the Senate never starts a 'session' because the terms are overlapping 6 years, versus the House where the terms are 2 years and everyone has faced the election.

In any case changing this rule is shortsighted for either party. Dems used it all the time against Bush.

23 posted on 11/12/2012 7:19:56 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: sickoflibs; NFHale; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; OldDeckHand
Technically Reid would need 60 or 2/3rds to change that rule as I recall.

This is a murky legal question. The 60 vote rule is not in the constitution.

But what if Reid accepted a simple majority vote to change the rules? What would the GOP do about it? The SCOTUS has been very reluctant to accept such cases lately.

It's possible that even very leftist senators would vote against such a rule change, because it would make the senate just a second House whose menbers are elected in a different way.

24 posted on 11/12/2012 7:24:40 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: Cboldt

See post #24.


25 posted on 11/12/2012 7:27:23 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: Cboldt

See post #24.


26 posted on 11/12/2012 7:27:43 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Cboldt; NFHale; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; ...
RE :”This is a murky legal question. The 60 vote rule is not in the constitution.
But what if Reid accepted a simple majority vote to change the rules? What would the GOP do about it? The SCOTUS has been very reluctant to accept such cases lately. “

As Cboldt helpfully pointed out it is 2/3rds now.

Legally the Senate makes their own rules so the majority can technically do anything they want. That is why Levin recommended that Republicans take such an approach ~ 2006.

So if Rs have the House but filibusters are more difficult then what does that really do, assuming they disagree and still cant stuff to Os desk?

It allows Reid to force Republicans to vote 'no' rather than vote block. Those voters can be used against them I suppose. It also makes the Senate look more functional than it has been by ‘getting stuff done’ when Senate Republicans are scared to go on the record as 'no ' and Bills get to House.

Now if the problem is the bohner Republican House than there are few solutions. We got the wrong party to depend on.

Technically the US constitition requires that all tax bills originate in the house but they ignore that, so the senate extended some of the tax cuts and is calling on the House to do the same.

27 posted on 11/12/2012 7:37:40 AM PST by sickoflibs (How long before cry-Bohner caves to O again? They took the House for what?)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
-- But what if Reid accepted a simple majority vote to change the rules? --

Technically, a simple majority always carries. The issue is how long debate goes on, before the vote is taken. The Senate operates on unlimited debate, and the "60" number is how many it takes to put a time limit on the debate. When the debate is a rule change, it takes 2/3rds of those present to agree to limit the debate.

Senate Rule XXII

"Is it the sense of the Senate that the debate shall be brought to a close?" And if that question shall be decided in the affirmative by three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn -- except on a measure or motion to amend the Senate rules, in which case the necessary affirmative vote shall be two-thirds of the Senators present and voting -- then said measure, motion, or other matter pending before the Senate, or the unfinished business, shall be the unfinished business to the exclusion of all other business until disposed of.
-- What would the GOP do about it? The SCOTUS has been very reluctant to accept such cases lately. --

There is no such thing as a trustworthy branch of the federal government. They all aim to maintain concentration of real power with the federal government. SCOTUS won't (and shouldn't) endorse or reject a legislative body's deviation from the organic principle that a majority rules.

Anyway, to answer the question, if Reid creates precedent, that precedent can be used by his opposition in the future.

-- It's possible that even very leftist senators would vote against such a rule change ... --

All of the senators are individually arrogant, and you are right, none of them wants to give up the individual power of control that flows from dysfunctional abuse of the rules.

28 posted on 11/12/2012 7:39:00 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: sickoflibs; NFHale; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; BillyBoy
Keep in mind and you know it, many Republicans thought they were going to get huge win on election night till Hume and Ingraham on FNC started talking about a possible defeat election night.

Ingraham on Special Report predicted that amnesty would pass this time. I hope she is wrong but Boehner is not hiding his madness, and he seems determined to infect others.

After Hannity's flip on amnesty, I wonder if he will take the backlash calls on his radio show :)

29 posted on 11/12/2012 7:43:57 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
it is 2/3rds now.

isnt that 2/3 of present members ???

which begs the question of whether or not the commprogs believe they really will face another electorate after bambamII...???

reid has been pretty much playing 2nd monkey to the bambam for a long time, simply being the blocker...he may just decide that he can get a lil of the glory, and maybe even a statue or three ifn he goes all-in and ramrods some agenda...not to mention the possibility above concerning another election, if bam tells him the final push is going *forward*...

i dont put anything past these scumbag csers...

30 posted on 11/12/2012 7:58:42 AM PST by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Cboldt; sickoflibs
When the debate is a rule change, it takes 2/3rds of those present to agree to limit the debate.

Doesn`t that contradict Mason's Manual? "A deliberative body cannot by its own act or rule require a two-thirds vote to take any action where the constitution or controlling authority requires only a majority vote. To require a two-thirds vote, for example, to take any action would be to give to any number more than one-third of the members the power to defeat the action and amount to a delegation of the powers of the body to a minority."

Or does that apply only to the vote itself, and not to rules which could delay a vote forever? I am getting dizzy :)

31 posted on 11/12/2012 8:01:33 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
-- Doesn`t that contradict Mason's Manual? --

I don't think so. A properly functioning deliberative body will give the minority the power to extend debate in order to obtain the opportunity to persuade, etc. Under Roberts Rules of Order, a Motion to To Suppress or Limit Debate requires 2/3rds to carry.

-- Or does that apply only to the vote itself, and not to rules which could delay a vote forever? --

Yes, Mason's Manual is referring to the ultimate vote on the issue before the body.

Inaction is different from taking an action. Failing to vote on the issue is inaction.

I think the Senate's use of minority veto on advise & consent is unconstitutional, as it disrupts the balance of power between the senate and the president. But for legislated points, the failure to get to the vote is simple dysfunction, without any constitutional ramifications.

32 posted on 11/12/2012 8:13:26 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Cboldt
But for legislated points, the failure to get to the vote is simple dysfunction, without any constitutional ramifications.

I believe that we do need the 60 vote rule to stay in place. Now that the SCOTUS (yes, even the "conservative" Robert court) has allowed the commerce clause to be used for just about any purpose. Of course, I could speculate that such laws theoretically could be overturned by the congress.

But even worse is amnesty, which makes citizens, eventually, of people who will make whatever party the Left identifies with, to be the government itself. Amnesty would make several disastrous trends permanent, and, if it became law, I don't see how this process could be reversed.

33 posted on 11/12/2012 10:32:17 AM PST by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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