Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Grid-Down Collapse: Hard Assets Soar In Value
SHTF Plan ^ | 11-6-2012 | Mac Slavo

Posted on 11/06/2012 11:40:32 AM PST by blam

Grid-Down Collapse: Hard Assets Soar In Value

Mac Slavo
November 5th, 2012

By all accounts, the residents of many hurricane stricken areas of the north east are in the midst of a collapse. While FEMA, the National Guard and private relief organizations are in place and providing some level of assistance, the fact of the matter is that for tens of thousands of Americans, the world as they knew it has completely collapsed around them.

What we are witnessing are the immediate after-effects of what is referred to as a grid-down scenario, where utility infrastructure like water and electricity, transportation infrastructure like food and gas delivery, and commerce infrastructure like electronic banking and brick & mortar trade are no longer functioning.

In some areas there has been a total breakdown in emergency response. Without communications it has become impossible for emergency responders to be contacted. For all intents and purposes, law and order broke down within just a few hours of Hurricane Sandy passing over the east coast. Likewise, medical response was unavailable due to overwhelming demand put on the system by hundreds of people reporting simultaneous emergencies.

Almost immediately after the worst of the storm passed, people in the hardest hit areas began to realize how bad things were. Within 72 hours we had complete chaos. People were fighting for gas, digging through trashcans and standing in FEMA supply lines for hours at a time just for a bottle of water and an emergency ration kit.

The hunt for resources had begun.

Looters were hitting grocery and convenience stores, thieves and armed robbers were breaking into personal residences, and tempers flared.

With essential supplies running low and government support lacking, black markets have sprung up to fill the gap.

What has been theorized in previous commentary about what becomes money when the system collapses, became a reality over the last week.

When it hits the fan the only things of value will be the hard assets in your physical possession.

In one report, the cost of a bag of potatoes jumped to $7, up from $3 before the storm hit. The cost of the box of matches appears more than three times the usual cost, and the loaf of bread is more than double the usual cost. (NBC)

I waited in line for 2 hours to fill up a 5 Gallon gas container. I’m willing to sell it for the right price and will deliver! $25 per Gallon OR Shoot us your best offer!! (The Daily Sheeple)

Just got back from trying to deliver 2 generators to Long Island. 220 mile drive one way. Deal was brokered, $7000 cash, for a business owner to open his shop. (SHTF plan)

This is crazy, it’s like post-apocalyptic scenarios, you know with this gas. It’s as important as food and water to people. It’s a dogfight out here (CS Monitor)

Residents in the Queens neighborhood of the Rockaways are using anything they can get their hands on to protect their homes after Sandy devastated their area, including bows and arrows… Locals say they are arming themselves with guns, baseball bats, booby traps — even a bow and arrow — to defend against looters. (Liberty Blitzkrieg)

The largest number of complaints are related to increased gasoline prices, he said in a statement, but consumers also have reported possible gouging for emergency supplies like generators and hotels raising rates due to “high demand,” as well as increased prices for food and water. (Huffpost)

[Editor's Note: During the first economic and financial panic to hit Greece in 2010, citizens of the country scrambled to convert their currency to gold when they thought the system was about to go under... A large portion of Greek commerce has since moved into underground markets.]

Prices at which the Greek Central Bank is selling one ounce gold equivalents are as high as $1,700 (40% over spot), and prices on the black markets are even higher. (Zero Hedge)

Arguing the right and wrong of “price gouging” is off no consequence. What matters is that prices for key supplies will rise exponentially as their supply dwindles. This is a natural effect of rising demand, especially if that demand is driven by panic buying.

Food, gas, clean water, batteries, self defense armaments, shelter, clothing, ammo, precious metals and related preparedness supplies are a must-have in any grid-down scenario. First and foremost you can use these and other supplies to survive or at the very least, remain comfortable. Second, you can use these items for trade as their value soars.

The north east will recover in due time, just as New Orleans did after Hurricane Katrina. This emergency is limited in scope and the government was already actively employing emergency response plans prior to the disaster. However, as we have seen over the week since Sandy struck, there is simply no way for government to be able to manage a crisis that is spread over a wide area and involves tens of thousands of ‘victims.’

What we’ve learned is that when it comes down to it, those in areas affected by a disaster will have no one else to rely on but themselves.

Having key supplies and tools prepared in advance of an emergency is absolutely critical to your well-being and survival.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chaos; collapse; gold; preppers; prepping; shortages; shtf; silver
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-78 next last

1 posted on 11/06/2012 11:40:37 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: blam

Preppers!


2 posted on 11/06/2012 11:46:18 AM PST by TigerClaws
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!


3 posted on 11/06/2012 11:49:16 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!


4 posted on 11/06/2012 11:49:52 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

ping


5 posted on 11/06/2012 11:51:06 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Look what is happening right before your eyes and take heed.

You either prepare and stand on your own beholden to no one or you become dependent on others to provide your basic needs and become thier ‘serf’. Me I don’t want to be beholden to anyone for providing what is needed for me and mine. I certainly don’t want to have to kiss some ‘gubberment’ third class bureaucratic to try and coax some help from them, I don’t want some ‘jack booted’ thug herding me in line and telling me where to stand, sit, eat or sleep. And last but not least I don’t want to be shut up in with a bunch of ‘zombies’ and have to worry about not only trying to get basic necessities but having to fight to keep what I manage to get.
Its your choice you can prep or you can stand around on a bridge waiting for FEMA to bring you a bottle of water, a MRE, a warm banklet and a kiss for your boo-boo and maybe you can even get your picture as you stand there on the national news.
For those who are just starting or are old hands at prepping you may find my Preparedness Manual helpfull. You can download it at:
http://tomeaker.com/kart/Preparedness1j.pdf
NOTE! THIS IS A FREE DOWNLOAD. I DO NOT MAKE ONE CENT OFF MY PREPAREDNESS MANUAL!
For those of you who haven’t started already it’s time to prepare almost past time maybe. You needed to be stocking up on food guns, ammo, basic household supplies like soap, papergoods, cleaning supplies, good sturdy clothes including extra socks, underwear and extra shoes and boots, a extra couple changes of oil and filters for your car, tools, things you buy everyday start buying two and put one up.
As the LDS say “When the emergency is upon us the time for preparedness has past.”

Or as the bible says: A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
NIV Proverbs 22:3

I also like to recomend FReeper’s ChocoChipCookie Blog The Survival Mom (Please Blog Police let this one slide!) Where you can get lots of useful information like:

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2011/11/20/8-morale-boosters-for-any-worst-case-scenario/

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/02/02/survival-priorities-the-rule-of-three/

http://thesurvivalmom.com/2010/12/29/normalcy-bias/

And More

“There is no greater disaster than to underestimate danger.
Underestimation can be fatal.”


6 posted on 11/06/2012 11:52:43 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

What really ticks me off is,

with all this news coverage and footage,

NOT ONE window shutter did I see!

Here in S FL, I go to great lengths to make sure I have shutters for every opening. And not seeing one shutter, in NJ, just tells me they didn’t do anything to prepare.


7 posted on 11/06/2012 11:54:05 AM PST by bicyclerepair ( REPLACE D-W-S ! http://www.karenforcongress.com (I AM UNREPRESENTED))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Ping.


8 posted on 11/06/2012 11:55:27 AM PST by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Well,that’s what you get when you choose to live in a large metro area where your entire existance depends on the actions of someone else.


9 posted on 11/06/2012 11:56:26 AM PST by technically right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Dang. You’re already here. Not used to FR working this fast!


10 posted on 11/06/2012 11:57:04 AM PST by houeto (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
Sandy Price Gouging Probed: $7 Loaf Of Bread, $10 Box Of Matches
11 posted on 11/06/2012 11:57:10 AM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: JRandomFreeper; blam; Responsibility2nd

Plea for underwear on Staten Island

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2955884/posts


12 posted on 11/06/2012 11:59:53 AM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: blam

Hmmm....

Wonder if I shouldn’t stock up on some items to sell back east?

If someone will pay $7,000 for a generator I could fill a U-haul with some and other items, wait just outside a storm and bring in the necessary items for cash.

There isn’t any law against that is there?


13 posted on 11/06/2012 12:03:31 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer
What is this 'underwear' of which you speak? ;)

/johnny

14 posted on 11/06/2012 12:04:31 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: blam
Within 72 hours...standing in FEMA supply lines for hours at a time just for a bottle of water and an emergency ration kit.

now that's just sad. Even a poor person should be able to put together a 72hour kit much less a 7 day kit without much cost. There's still a lot of prepper training needed by this country, that's for sure.

15 posted on 11/06/2012 12:04:53 PM PST by blueplum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blueplum

How many would actually take such “training” if it were offered?

There’s really no one that isn’t aware of the need,
they just either don’t want to bother with it,

or it is against their “religion”. The religion of state worship.


16 posted on 11/06/2012 12:07:27 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: blam

Does anybody know if lead foil will protect electronic devices from EMP? Say, about 1/32” thick?


17 posted on 11/06/2012 12:07:42 PM PST by Jaxter ("Pro Aris et Focis")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vendome
Price Gouging Laws
18 posted on 11/06/2012 12:07:52 PM PST by blam
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Jaxter

You’d be better off looking up that Youtube video about making an emp proof cabinet out of a standard office supply cabinet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0ggWv_Gz4s


19 posted on 11/06/2012 12:10:33 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Vendome; blam

Are you a member of Gougers and Profiteers Local 1313?


20 posted on 11/06/2012 12:10:56 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: MrB; blueplum

True there are even a few FReepers who see no ned in prepping.


21 posted on 11/06/2012 12:12:56 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Free family preparedness “class” right here:

http://www.beforethestormhits.com/


22 posted on 11/06/2012 12:15:15 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: JRandomFreeper

Barbarian! ;-)


23 posted on 11/06/2012 12:15:45 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: blam
Almost immediately after the worst of the storm passed, people in the hardest hit areas began to realize how bad things were. Within 72 hours we had complete chaos. People were fighting for gas, digging through trashcans and standing in FEMA supply lines for hours at a time just for a bottle of water and an emergency ration kit.

What has been the most illuminating lesson of all of this has been the speed and timing of this journey into anarchy and chaos. Even before the initial shock wore off the looting of electronics and alcohol was in full force. This gave way shortly to a transition to the search for basic survival goods and shelter. The desperation peak was reached in less than three days and only then did people recognize that government was powerless to help them and they had to take necessary measures to allow themselves to move forward. People regretted that they weren't even minimally prepared to take care of themselves and their loved ones. A tough way to learn!

24 posted on 11/06/2012 12:16:45 PM PST by immadashell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

No one is trading their gasoline for gold in NYC.


25 posted on 11/06/2012 12:19:13 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vendome
There are “price gouging” regulations in most places that try to suspend the law of supply and demand in an emergency. As most governments would rather have shortages than expensive goods and *gasp* profits, i believe your entrepreneurial exercise would be thwarted by state law.
26 posted on 11/06/2012 12:19:33 PM PST by RightOnTheBorder
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Vendome
At those inflated rates, I've easily got $100,000+ worth of preps down in my storeroom:


27 posted on 11/06/2012 12:21:28 PM PST by carriage_hill ("0bummer's a towering figure" - even a Garden Gnome casts a long shadow at sunset.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: technically right
Well,that’s what you get when you choose to live in a large metro area where your entire existence depends on the actions of someone else.

This logically leads to one of the most important rules of prepping: G.O.O.D = Get Out Of Dodge. This implies a plan and place to carry it out.

28 posted on 11/06/2012 12:22:12 PM PST by immadashell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: carriage_hill

I got dibs on the Cheerios. ;)


29 posted on 11/06/2012 12:23:12 PM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Vendome

I’d never even consider selling it, but I’m willing to donate some of it. Calling local Salvation Army and Red Cross offices now...


30 posted on 11/06/2012 12:28:52 PM PST by carriage_hill ("0bummer's a towering figure" - even a Garden Gnome casts a long shadow at sunset.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: JRandomFreeper; Kartographer

Underwear: Many sent clothes but they didn’t think of underwear. They would be hesitant to send “used” underwear but would send clothes they didn’t wear anymore or clothes children had outgrown.

I’m not sure Johnny wears them so he might not see the necessity for them.

People who have no house left lost their clothes along with everything else.

Rule No. 1. is don’t live too close to a large body of water. 2. Have a bug out bag with supplies for at least 3 days. 3. Have a gun and ammo for self defense. 4. Store water and food, then other supplies.

If people don’t follow those rules, they could be in serious trouble just like the ones in the northeast.


31 posted on 11/06/2012 12:29:15 PM PST by Marcella (Republican Conservatism is Dead. PREPARE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: carriage_hill

Wow. You are really organized.

Mine are just in boxes and stacked.


32 posted on 11/06/2012 12:29:33 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: MrB

Thanks but I’ve got a 3000 Watt portable generator I’d like to protect. I have a metal can that I keep some smaller devices in. I’ll still check out the video though ‘cause it sounds better than what I have now. Thanks again.


33 posted on 11/06/2012 12:31:07 PM PST by Jaxter ("Pro Aris et Focis")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: bicyclerepair

>> “And not seeing one shutter, in NJ, just tells me they didn’t do anything to prepare.” <<

They don’t need to prepare, they have ‘Boma to give them your stuff.


34 posted on 11/06/2012 12:31:31 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

LOLMAO; they’re yours! (Best laugh I’ve had today.)


35 posted on 11/06/2012 12:32:42 PM PST by carriage_hill ("0bummer's a towering figure" - even a Garden Gnome casts a long shadow at sunset.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: carriage_hill

I’ve always said if you are thirst enough you be surprised how much gold you will be willing to give for a bottle of water.


36 posted on 11/06/2012 12:33:49 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Vendome
It wasn't always that way. This is what it used to look like, before I 'organized' it all:


37 posted on 11/06/2012 12:35:43 PM PST by carriage_hill ("0bummer's a towering figure" - even a Garden Gnome casts a long shadow at sunset.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Jaxter

The key words you’re looking for are “Faraday cage”.

You can make one in any size with wire mesh, a frame, and a grounding wire.


38 posted on 11/06/2012 12:38:56 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: JRandomFreeper

>> “What is this ‘underwear’ of which you speak?” <<

.Dass da pants what you wears down below the crack o’you ass to pleases yo rump thumpa.


39 posted on 11/06/2012 12:41:10 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor; JRandomFreeper

Decoration for your beltline when you pants are down around your knees.


40 posted on 11/06/2012 12:48:12 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: bicyclerepair; Kartographer
Here in S FL, I go to great lengths to make sure I have shutters for every opening. And not seeing one shutter, in NJ, just tells me they didn’t do anything to prepare.

We live in NYS and many houses don't have shutters, and on the ones that do, they are simply decorative. Long and short of it, we simply don't NEED shutters.

There's a problem when people start judging others for not doing something they don't need to do just because the person doing the judging needs to do it.

It's legalism at it's finest.

Your judgment is wrong and unjustified. You don't have any idea who prepared and how and cannot make that determination because someone didn't do what YOU thought they should have.

Get over yourself.

41 posted on 11/06/2012 12:49:41 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: MrB; Kartographer

I think there’s still plenty that would take a class - I personally had no clue until a few years ago. Thanks to helpful folks like you and Kartographer and some other FRiends, now we’re good to go for about 8 months, not including barter foods/items. But you know, like that tv show, I’d definitely pay a few dollars for an expert to give us an onsite assessment of how good we’re doing, so I see a strong market in that type of individalized service.


42 posted on 11/06/2012 12:49:55 PM PST by blueplum
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: bicyclerepair
...What really ticks me off is, with all this news coverage and footage, NOT ONE window shutter did I see!...

That's the first thing I noticed when I saw all the photos. At least a lot of the homes looked to be built on stilts, albeit some were enclosed.

43 posted on 11/06/2012 12:50:27 PM PST by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: bicyclerepair; Kartographer
Here in S FL, I go to great lengths to make sure I have shutters for every opening. And not seeing one shutter, in NJ, just tells me they didn’t do anything to prepare.

And next time there's a freeze, should we condemn all the Floridians for losing their fruit crop because they didn't prepare by having cold hardy plants growing instead of citrus?

44 posted on 11/06/2012 12:51:01 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blueplum; MrB; ChocChipCookie

Hey maybe we should go into business! ;-)


45 posted on 11/06/2012 12:56:02 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Kartographer

Yeah, right...

Let me relate a friend’s experience with attempting to register voters at a gun show.
Either the people were already registered, or they were too paranoid about getting their name on a list.

You think your standard prepper would hire some “preparedness assessment” business to come out and take an inventory of his stuff?

No way. Too much chance of it being a gov’t front group that wants to know where the stuff is in order to confiscate it.


46 posted on 11/06/2012 12:59:37 PM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: MrB

How do you expect me to find resupply sources? ;-)

We are so tied into the ‘grid’ there’s not much the government doesn’t know or that they can’t find out. If George only knew how much he was right.


47 posted on 11/06/2012 1:17:10 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: carriage_hill

You’re crazy. LOL

I wish I had a basement so I could store everything.

Right now I have plenty here in the house but, I also have three different storage lockers with art, furniture and back up supplies.

There are geographically diverse and I should be able to get any of them at some point.


48 posted on 11/06/2012 1:17:32 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Jaxter
Does anybody know if lead foil will protect electronic devices from EMP?

Lead foil is good for gamma and beta radiation. EMP is an "Electromagnetic Pulse", much like when a close lightning strike destroys everything electronic. A steel box is best for EMP protection. It can drain static electric charges and protect the contents from magnetism.

Ammo boxes would offer better protection than nothing, but a gun safe would keep a radio device safe.

49 posted on 11/06/2012 1:19:25 PM PST by GingisK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Vendome
It was driving me nuts; I couldn't find anything in all those bags, boxes and piles. I HAD to get it organized.

These shelves which I bought online, were the best investment I've made recently, next to my firearms/ammo stockpile.

50 posted on 11/06/2012 1:24:26 PM PST by carriage_hill ("0bummer's a towering figure" - even a Garden Gnome casts a long shadow at sunset.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-78 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson