Posted on 08/24/2012 8:25:11 PM PDT by chessplayer
Until you are in a gunfight ... things can get a little hectic. No amount of training can prepare you for the “gunfight at the OK corral”.
Interesting, thank you. I would certainly forgive the officers, but I fear I have become cynical about our lawsuit happy country now. The NYPD could look like tempting deep pockets :-(
That behavior is consistant with the current police attitude nationwide.
It was only 'civilians' who were in danger until the gunman turned around.
No need to protect THEM.
“Teach them to shoot .45ACP; that will stop a man dead in his tracks.”
Nope. Not unless you shoot him in the head, in which case most calibers will do fine. You can shoot a guy in the heart with a 44 magnum, and he’ll have enough blood left in the brain to shoot back for 10-20 seconds - long enough to empty a magazine at 10 feet.
What I see on the video leads me to believe that the NYPD needs much more training than what they have.
Let’s put aside the number of rounds downrange. Let’s put aside the number of people hit by NYPD rounds.
Just look at that video from the point where the cops enter the frame to the end. Their situational awareness of their surroundings, where their partner is relative TO THEIR OWN MUZZLES, etc - shows that these guys were not acting as a team, they were two cops on the same scene at the same time.
The way they caught up to the shooter (trailing single file) is just bizarre.
It was a crowded street. 10ft range. 7 shots hit the perp and the other 9 out of the 16 hit bystanders. One victim was shot in the neck and another was shot in the elbow. those that might have been shot lower, would have been those shot as the perp was going down. Shot with bullets, not little flakes of lead. These were hollow points that lose mass and energy fast when skidding on concrete.
This gunfight seems a bit different.
It was reported witnesses drew the attention of the LEOs to the shooter suspect walking away and as they followed and got closer, the suspect turned and pointed his weapon at the two LEOS. The video seems to show the LEOs suddenly backing up and drawing.
If you’re following someone who just murdered some guy, would you not have your weapon already in hand, for survivability/accuracy and better shot placement?
Gee, you are right. Police are trained to anticipate every situation imaginable. My bad. Until you are in their situation, you might reserve judgment.
Have to disagree with that. After watching the video, I think more training and practice would have made a large difference
Agree. And would you follow someone who just murdered some guy with your weapon holstered?
Less than 50% hits on man-sized target at less than 10 feet?
That’s... some shooting...
Contrary to all the TV programs, and officer is trained to only pull his weapon when nothing else will suffice. Most police want to defuse the situation without pulling their weapon.
Depends on the holster and the situation. I can’t fault them for following with holstered weapons without seeing film of what situation was like further back on the trail. If I were following someone who I knew had killed someone, through a crowd on a street, I’d probably be trying to keep a low(er) profile, not waving my heater around and trying not get people riled up in his wake. New Yorkers, by their nature, are going to lose bladder control at the sight of a weapon, so it’s probably best to keep as low a profile for as long as possible.
My hand would for-sure be on my weapon, however.
Coming up on this guy as they did - single file, with no clear plan (or training) of “I break right, you break left” or something similar... it’s just bizarre. It’s like watching two interlopers just happen upon a situation. I would have had my partner out away from me, hopefully out on this guy’s flank so the suspect couldn’t get behind me by reversing in a crowd.
Confronting the guy when they’re stacked up behind each other? Just amateur hour bungling.
I don’t know where you are getting your information but you are saying some really stupid things. The cops were pursuing an armed person that just shot and killed someone. As they closed they should have had their firearms out and prepared to shoot before the guy even turned. Had they done that, the outcome may have been better in terms of civilians shot
When you serve as a police officer as I have, then tell me about it.
I spent over 28 years on the police force of a large metropolitan city. Believe that or not ... your choice.
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