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Economist Richard Duncan: Civilization May Not Survive 'Death Spiral'
Atlanta Journal Constitution ^ | August 10, 2012 | Terry Weiss, Money Morning

Posted on 08/10/2012 3:04:47 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Richard Duncan, formerly of the World Bank and chief economist at Blackhorse Asset Mgmt., says America's $16 trillion federal debt has escalated into a "death spiral, "as he told CNBC.

And it could result in a depression so severe that he doesn't "think our civilization could survive it."

And Duncan is not alone in warning that the U.S. economy may go into a "death spiral."

Since the recession, noted economists including Laurence Kotlikoff, a former member of President Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers, have come to similar conclusions.

Kotlikoff estimates the true fiscal gap is $211 trillion when unfunded entitlements like Social Security and Medicare are included.

However, while the debt crisis numbers are well known to most Americans, the economy hasn't suffered a major correction for almost 4 years.

So the questions remain: Is the threat of collapse for real? And if so, when?

A team of scientists, economists, and geopolitical analysts believes they have proof that the threat is indeed real - and the danger imminent.

One member of this team, Chris Martenson, a pathologist and former VP of a Fortune 300 company, explains their findings:

"We found an identical pattern in our debt, total credit market, and money supply that guarantees they're going to fail. This pattern is nearly the same as in any pyramid scheme, one that escalates exponentially fast before it collapses. Governments around the globe are chiefly responsible.

"And what's really disturbing about these findings is that the pattern isn't limited to our economy. We found the same catastrophic pattern in our energy, food, and water systems as well."

According to Martenson: "These systems could all implode at the same time. Food, water, energy, money. Everything."

(Excerpt) Read more at moneymorning.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: debt; deficit; economy; spending
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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The Hugo Chavez-Barack Obama economic plan to destroy free market capitalism - take over under the guise of helping:

Obama: Let's repeat auto industry success "PUEBLO, Colo. – President Obama, while villifying Mitt Romney for opposing the auto industry bailout, bragged about the success of his decision to provide government assistance and said he now wants to see every manufacturing industry come roaring back.

“I said, I believe in American workers, I believe in this American industry, and now the American auto industry has come roaring back,” he said. “Now I want to do the same thing with manufacturing jobs, not just in the auto industry, but in every industry."...........

1 posted on 08/10/2012 3:05:07 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

That’s a tricky link; what does Atlanta Journal Constitution have to do with Morning Money?


2 posted on 08/10/2012 3:13:31 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Many people die, not so much from a disease, but by the over-reaction of their own immune system to the presence of the disease. I think a major financial crisis, by itself, could not kill us. But our political reaction to the crisis would be so mis-guided, so over-the-top, that civilization could possibly come crashing down. I can see a feudal system coming back -- I already feel more like a serf than a free citizen.

With liabilities over $200T, I think the only thing to do is to cancel all debts and focus on domestic food and energy production for a few years. Start over. Avoid famine and energy starvation. The 20th century was basically one big mistake, and we need to wipe the slate clean and rebuild our society with more emphasis on personal responsibility and personal property ownership.

3 posted on 08/10/2012 3:16:37 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Roger Taney? Not a bad Chief Justice. John Roberts? A really awful Chief Justice.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

....And it could result in a depression so severe that he doesn’t “think our civilization could survive it.” .... it’s easier in our election in November.......


4 posted on 08/10/2012 3:17:47 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

 


5 posted on 08/10/2012 3:18:47 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Jubilant Bump.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=Jubilee


6 posted on 08/10/2012 3:22:27 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I bet all 50 CNBC viewers were saddened by the slow death of America. The likelihood that Europe was sacrificed to make us look better than someone else is something to think about too.


7 posted on 08/10/2012 3:25:07 AM PDT by momincombatboots (Back to West by G-d Virginia. 2016 starts today! Walker, Issa, Rubio,)
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To: ClearCase_guy
...we need to wipe the slate clean and rebuild our society with more emphasis on personal responsibility and personal property ownership.

I cannot disagree, but unfortunately, the political powers that be (in the Congress and of course, the President) are working at counter-purposes to what you propose. But you know this.

8 posted on 08/10/2012 3:30:30 AM PDT by OldPossum
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

If the threat is real and Obama represents that threat then what are the American people supposed to do about it, wait for the government to save us? You’d think there’d be some kind of ‘breaker switch’ for just such a national emergency.


9 posted on 08/10/2012 3:31:38 AM PDT by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth again.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
At the risk of offending any Freepers who may be economists, I just don't think economics is a ‘science’, and that much of the complex modeling and calculating has little predictive value and obscures the very fundamental issues that matter most.

IMHO, it comes down to:

1) How big is the total pie (e.g. what's the GDP)?

2) Is the pie getting bigger (i.e. economic growth)?

3) If so, is the pie getting bigger fast enough to provide a slice to the additional people who want a piece of the pie (i.e. is growth keeping up with population growth and immigration)?

4) Do you have to contribute to making the pie in order to qualify for having a slice (e.g. do you get money from the government even if you don't contribute to increasing the GDP)?

5) If the total pie isn't getting bigger, and you are committed to providing a piece to everyone - irrespective of if they help make the pie bigger or not - someone’s slice has to get smaller in order to make available pie for the additional pie eaters who want a slice (i.e. you can't spend the money that liberals spend on government programs without redistributing earnings - unless the GDP grows at a fast enough rate to fund all the spending. If you give more you either have to make more, or take more).

6) If you take from those who make the pie, and give to those who don't, how much can you take, and for how long, until those who make the pie quit making it?

7) How do you incentivize people to make more pie?

10 posted on 08/10/2012 3:37:41 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: momincombatboots

>>The likelihood that Europe was sacrificed

Europe sacrificed itself on the alter of the Socialist Ba'al.


Ba'al being a Hebrew word meaning Lord, Owner, Possessor, Master...  typically rendered throughout history as the slave owning State (Babylon, Egypt, Rome...);  a  State of affairs which Thomas Jefferson recognized as:

"COMMERCE BETWEEN MASTER AND SLAVE IS DESPOTISM"

and from which:

"TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS [American] GOVERNMENTS ARE INSTITUTED AMONG MEN"

 

 

Dick Duncan and the rest of the NyLon Quisling free traitors can wave to the backside of my lifted kilt and kiss my Scotch/Russian American arse.  

I don't feel like "spiraling" on their whim just yet.

 


11 posted on 08/10/2012 3:39:43 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: equaviator

“You’d think there’d be some kind of ‘breaker switch’ for just such a national emergency.”
___________________________________________________

The breaker became unusable when the Marxist media and Marxist education system took over the skulls full of mush.
The fact that the Commie clown has over 25% approval tells me that the populace is beyond saving.
It is one reason that I no longer live in the USSA.


12 posted on 08/10/2012 3:41:55 AM PDT by AlexW
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks Cincinatus' Wife.
Richard Duncan, formerly of the World Bank and chief economist at Blackhorse Asset Mgmt., says America's $16 trillion federal debt has escalated into a "death spiral, " ...Laurence Kotlikoff... estimates the true fiscal gap is $211 trillion when unfunded entitlements like Social Security and Medicare are included.
That's over 13 times increase; that's doubled 3 1/2 times or so.


13 posted on 08/10/2012 4:15:05 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: gusopol3
That’s a tricky link; what does Atlanta Journal Constitution have to do with Morning Money?

I apologize.

I saw the LINK at the AJC -- I checked back and it is under "around the web" articles at AJC.

14 posted on 08/10/2012 4:16:21 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: OldEarlGray

It isn’t Free Trade that’s driving manufacturing jobs overseas.

Massive corporate taxation, limitless legal vulnerability, crushing environmental regulation and pro-Union arbitrary Government: these are why industry chooses to locate away from the USA.

Protectionism would be the final nail in the coffin. The last vestiges of American industry would be turned into feather-bedded welfare cases, and freeborn Americans would be forced to buy their stuff from the Government store.

Protectionism will also increase Government power. The Dems will collect all of that lovely tariff money and spend it on union pension bailouts or some damn thing.

America has tied its own hands behind its back with a ludicrous knot of EPA regulations, crushing taxation and arbitrary Government (just ask Gibsons guitars).

America needs to untie those knots - not wrap itself up in more of them in a fit of misplaced faux-patriotic anger.


15 posted on 08/10/2012 4:20:32 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Once upon a time... long long ago... a war for Independence was fought. Those seeking freedom were scorned... had no money or support... an army freezing to death... an army starving and with no food, supplies or equipment... an army demoralized... but General Washington won that war and with it... OUR INDEPENDENCE. Then we were destitute. We could not pay the French who had fought with us and for us. We had no money at all... and the paper that we did have was worthless. Private citizens signed over whatever they had... real statesmen and we paid those debts and we grew and expanded and became the WORLD POWER. Castroti, effeminate girly-men like this author may not survive... in fact those that can do may have to get rid of those that can't... as in those that choose anarchy over work. We will survive and rebuild America... some of us will. You can bank on that mister banker!

LLS

16 posted on 08/10/2012 4:22:09 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: LibLieSlayer; All
............"The first truth about leftist missionaries, about believing progressives, is that they are liars. But they are not liars in the ordinary way, which is to say by choice. They are liars by necessity—often without even realizing that they are. Because they also lie to themselves. It is the political lie that gives their cause its life.

Why, for example, if you were one of them, would you tell the truth? If you were serious about your role in humanity's vanguard, if you had the knowledge (which others did not), that you were certain would lead them to a better world, why would you tell them a truth that they could not "understand" and that would hold them back?

If others could understand your truth, you would not think of yourself as a "vanguard." You would no longer inhabit the morally charmed world of an elite, whose members alone can see the light and whose mission is to lead the unenlightened towards it. If everybody could see the promised horizon and knew the path to reach it, the future would already have happened and there would be no need for the vanguard of the saints.

That is both the ethical core and psychological heart of what it means to be a part of the left. That is where the gratification comes from. To see yourself as a social redeemer. To feel anointed. In other words: To be progressive is itself the most satisfying narcissism.

That is why it is of little concern to them that their socialist schemes have run aground, burying millions of human beings in their wake. That is why they don't care that their panaceas have caused more human suffering than all the injustices they have ever challenged. That is why they never learn from their "mistakes." That is why the continuance of Them is more important than any truth.

If you were active in the so-called "peace" movement or in the radical wing of the civil rights causes, why would you tell the truth? Why would you tell people that no, you weren't really a "peace activist," except in the sense that you were against America's war. Why would you draw attention to the fact that while you called yourselves "peace activists," you didn't oppose the Communists' war, and were gratified when America's enemies won?

What you were really against was not war at all, but American "imperialism" and American capitalism. What you truly hated was America's democracy, which you knew to be a "sham" because it was controlled by money in the end. That's why you wanted to "Bring the Troops Home," as your slogan said. Because if America's troops came home, America would lose and the Communists would win. And the progressive future would be one step closer.

But you never had the honesty—then or now—to admit that. You told the lie then to maintain your influence and increase your power to do good (as only the Chosen can). And you keep on telling the lie for the same reason.

Why would you admit that, despite your tactical support for civil rights, you weren't really committed to civil rights as Americans understand rights? What you really wanted was to overthrow the very Constitution that guaranteed those rights, based as it is on private property and the individual—both of which you despise.

It is because America is a democracy and the people endorse it, that the left's anti-American, but "progressive" agendas can only be achieved by deceiving the people. This is the cross the left has to bear: The better world is only achievable by lying to the very people they propose to redeem.

..............But Bill Clinton is not like those who worship him, corrupting himself and others for a higher cause. Unlike them, he betrays principles because he has none. He will even betray his country, but without the slightest need to betray it for something else—for an idea, a party, or a cause.* He is a narcissist who sacrifices principle for power because his vision is so filled with himself that he cannot tell the difference.

But the idealists who serve him—the Stephanopoulos's, the Ickes's, the feminists, the progressives and Hillary Clinton—can tell the difference. Their cynicism flows from the very perception they have of right and wrong. They do it for higher ends. They do it for the progressive faith. They do it because they see themselves as having the power to redeem the world from evil. It is that terrifyingly exalted ambition that fuels their spiritual arrogance and justifies their sordid and, if necessary, criminal means.

And that is why they hate conservatives. They hate you because you are killers of their dream. Because you are defenders of a Constitution that thwarts their cause. They hate you because your "reactionary" commitment to individual rights, to a single standard and to a neutral and limited state obstructs their progressive designs. They hate you because you are believers in property and its rights as the cornerstones of prosperity and human freedom; because you do not see the market economy as a mere instrument for acquiring personal wealth and political war chests, to be overcome in the end by bureaucratic schemes.

Conservatives who think progressives are misinformed idealists will forever be blind-sided by the malice of the left—by the cynicism of those who pride themselves on principle, by the viciousness of those who champion sensitivity, by the intolerance of those who call themselves liberal, and by the ruthless disregard for the well-being of the downtrodden by those who preen themselves as social saints.

Conservatives are caught by surprise because they see progressives as merely misguided, when in fact they are fundamentally misdirected. They are the messianists of a religious faith. But it is a false faith and a self-serving religion. Since the redeemed future that justifies their existence and rationalizes their hypocrisy can never be realized, what really motivates progressives is a modern idolatry: their limitless passion for the continuance of Them." ---- Hillary Clinton and the Third Way David Horowitz, June 22, 2000

17 posted on 08/10/2012 4:29:14 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: ClearCase_guy

Watch: Interest rates for Government debt (USTs) will continue their march to Zero. Its all part of the plan. As interest rates get lower, the debt is cheaper to finance—so it can go higher and higher. Of course, the flip side is that its a tax on savers—who earn next to nothing on their capital. But because its a stealth tax, no one will protest.

This creates distortions in the system and is designed to induce more consumption. What happens is we slowly become a Zombie society, like Japan.


18 posted on 08/10/2012 4:29:22 AM PDT by rbg81
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To: agere_contra
How's that NyLon Communist Chinese Capitalism plan workin' out for ya?
Hos 12:7-9
7 The merchant uses dishonest scales;
he loves to defraud.
8 Ephraim boasts,
"I am very rich; I have become wealthy.
With all my wealth they will not find in me
any iniquity or sin."
9 "I am the Lord your God,
[who brought you] out of Egypt;
I will make you live in tents again...
 
F Goldman Sachs and the Quisling NyLon Fraudulent CDO UnionJackwagon they rode in on.
 
NO SALE.
 
 

19 posted on 08/10/2012 4:31:25 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: OldEarlGray

Your post literally made no sense.

Was it perhaps generated with a Perl script? One that concatenates random bible quotes, patriotic images and crazy-talk?

Because that would actually be pretty cool.


20 posted on 08/10/2012 4:38:22 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The site looks like it markets investments and/or investment advice to people concerned about exactly this kind of collapse. That makes me fairly skeptical of the ‘reporting’ aspect of the site.


21 posted on 08/10/2012 4:44:16 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: agere_contra

Evidently your English to Quislingese translator isn’t working this morning. Try some new Chicom batteries.

Meanwhile — How’s that freetraitor Subprime CDO A$$paper digesting?

Did you know that ESAD is a double entente for which the lesser known meaning is that if you do, you will?

Plop plop Fiz Fiz, dirtbag. Bonapetit.


22 posted on 08/10/2012 4:46:45 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
At the risk of offending any Freepers who may be economists, I just don't think economics is a ‘science’, and that much of the complex modeling and calculating has little predictive value and obscures the very fundamental issues that matter most.

I mostly agree with that. Economics is a science, but it's a soft science. It is the study of human action -- what do people tend to do in a given situation.

You are correct that human behavior cannot be reduced to formulas and equations. The idea is nonsense and is an outgrowth of the socialists' belief that society can be planned and managed more effectively by wise technocrats than by us stupid individuals acting in our own best self-interest.

23 posted on 08/10/2012 4:51:49 AM PDT by BfloGuy (Without economic freedom, no other form of freedom can have material meaning.)
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To: agere_contra
...Protectionism would be the final nail in the coffin. The last vestiges of American industry would be turned into feather-bedded welfare cases, and freeborn Americans would be forced to buy their stuff from the Government store.

Protectionism will also increase Government power. The Dems will collect all of that lovely tariff money and spend it on union pension bailouts or some damn thing....

Hugo Chavez dictated such low prices on food that there is no profit and stores failed. He owns the oil company. A once prosperous country that exported is now under the control of a communist dictator (who like Castro holds "elections").

2003 - Chavez foes slam land grants - 'Agrarian Reform' and "Land Redistribution' in Venezuela ***Under the law, the land distributed to the peasants is still owned by the state, and the government must encourage the formation of peasant cooperatives and collective farms, where the state is to provide housing, health care and education. The law also gives the government power to dictate how private land can be used, based on soil conditions and the country's food-security needs.

Critics argue that the law violates the right to private property and is a throwback to state-planned communist economies."....

2004 - Venezuela to decriminalize theft "Thou shalt not steal say the Ten Commandments, but it might eventually no longer apply if you are starving in Venezuela.The poor, oil-rich nation is considering decriminalizing the theft of food and medicine in cases where a thief is motivated by extreme hunger or need.

Supreme Court Judge Alejandro Angulo Fontiveros said the so-called "famine theft" clause should be part of a broad penal code reform measure for humanitarian reasons. "This is a guide for judges to avoid injustice," said Mr Fontiveros, who is in charge of drafting the reforms. "They lock up for years a poor person who lives in atrocious misery and what they need is medicine."

2004 - Penalties Stiff for Slander in Venezuela "CARACAS, Venezuela — A new penal code approved by Venezuela's Congress would stiffen prison sentences for slander and libel, drawing criticism from opponents of President Hugo Chavez.

Chavez on Friday called the new rules an attempt to crack down on dissent.

The changes are "incompatible with freedom of expression," said Alberto Arteaga, a law professor at Venezuela's Central University who often defends opposition politicians in court.

Under the old penal code, the maximum sentence for libel was 18 months in prison. The new code, passed by Congress late Thursday, increased the maximum to four years in prison.

Sentences for slander — statements that impugn "the honor, the reputation, the respect" of a person — were lengthened from eight days to up to one year. There are no exceptions when the speech is directed at public officials."......

2005 Chavez poised to take control of banks***Caracas - Venezuela is preparing to take political control of private banks as part of a drive to spread “revolutionary” government control over the economy of the world's fifth largest oil exporter. Trino Alcides Diaz, Venezuela's banking superintendent, has privately told the heads of several of the country's banks that President Hugo Chavez wants to place two government representatives on the institutions' governing boards…..***

2007 - "BOGOTA, COLOMBIA — Delivering on campaign pledges to move Venezuela toward socialism, President Hugo Chavez announced plans Monday to nationalize the country's telephone and electricity sectors and hinted that he would seek a majority stake in so-called heavy oil projects in the Orinoco River basin.

"We are heading toward socialism, and nothing and no one can prevent it," Chavez said at a ceremony in Caracas to swear in new Cabinet members.".... Source

24 posted on 08/10/2012 4:52:12 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Post of the day!


25 posted on 08/10/2012 4:52:16 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Recon Dad

Nightmare on the horizon.


26 posted on 08/10/2012 4:53:09 AM PDT by Fred911 (YOU GET WHAT YOU ACCEPT)
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To: OldEarlGray
Jubilant Bump.

Are you a Steve Keen fan?

27 posted on 08/10/2012 4:54:57 AM PDT by Stentor
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To: Fred911

....hope is going to ride out in the sunset as of 11-06-12.


28 posted on 08/10/2012 4:57:13 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Gas & Petroleum Junkie)
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To: OldEarlGray
I just wrote a perl script that attempts to emulate your intriguing prose style. Let me know what you think!



“We take the stars from heaven, the red from our mother country, separating it by white stripes, thus showing that we have separated from her, and the white stripes shall go down to posterity, representing our liberty.” ~ George Washington

FREE TRAITERS KISS MY BUTTOCKS


29 posted on 08/10/2012 4:57:30 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Folks better be prepared to survive a major supply disruption, at the very least. The very least.


30 posted on 08/10/2012 5:01:50 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
All you need to know, Hyperinflation here we come.

See chart from: http://decourcy.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/what-is-money-a-look-at-the-us-dollar/

31 posted on 08/10/2012 5:03:39 AM PDT by preacher (Communism has only killed 100 million people: Let's give it another chance!)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
“7) How do you incentivize people to make more pie?”

Wean them off all forms of welfare, so that if you don't eat, you will starve.

If politicians can't do it, mathematical reality will in the end.

32 posted on 08/10/2012 5:04:00 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Stentor

Never heard of him.


33 posted on 08/10/2012 5:05:34 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: Travis McGee

Need more coffee. Should be, “Wean them off all forms of welfare, so if they don’t WORK they will starve.”


34 posted on 08/10/2012 5:07:42 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee
Folks better be prepared to survive a major supply disruption, at the very least. The very least.

It will be a domino effect--accelerated by executive orders and dictates -- all done in the name of "correcting" the economy:

Hugo Chavez dictated such low prices on food that there is no profit and stores failed. He owns the oil company. A once prosperous country that exported is now under the control of a communist dictator (who like Castro holds "elections").

2003 - Chavez foes slam land grants - 'Agrarian Reform' and "Land Redistribution' in Venezuela ***Under the law, the land distributed to the peasants is still owned by the state, and the government must encourage the formation of peasant cooperatives and collective farms, where the state is to provide housing, health care and education. The law also gives the government power to dictate how private land can be used, based on soil conditions and the country's food-security needs.

Critics argue that the law violates the right to private property and is a throwback to state-planned communist economies."....

2004 - Venezuela to decriminalize theft "Thou shalt not steal say the Ten Commandments, but it might eventually no longer apply if you are starving in Venezuela.The poor, oil-rich nation is considering decriminalizing the theft of food and medicine in cases where a thief is motivated by extreme hunger or need.

Supreme Court Judge Alejandro Angulo Fontiveros said the so-called "famine theft" clause should be part of a broad penal code reform measure for humanitarian reasons. "This is a guide for judges to avoid injustice," said Mr Fontiveros, who is in charge of drafting the reforms. "They lock up for years a poor person who lives in atrocious misery and what they need is medicine."

2004 - Penalties Stiff for Slander in Venezuela "CARACAS, Venezuela — A new penal code approved by Venezuela's Congress would stiffen prison sentences for slander and libel, drawing criticism from opponents of President Hugo Chavez.

Chavez on Friday called the new rules an attempt to crack down on dissent.

The changes are "incompatible with freedom of expression," said Alberto Arteaga, a law professor at Venezuela's Central University who often defends opposition politicians in court.

Under the old penal code, the maximum sentence for libel was 18 months in prison. The new code, passed by Congress late Thursday, increased the maximum to four years in prison.

Sentences for slander — statements that impugn "the honor, the reputation, the respect" of a person — were lengthened from eight days to up to one year. There are no exceptions when the speech is directed at public officials."......

2005 Chavez poised to take control of banks***Caracas - Venezuela is preparing to take political control of private banks as part of a drive to spread “revolutionary” government control over the economy of the world's fifth largest oil exporter. Trino Alcides Diaz, Venezuela's banking superintendent, has privately told the heads of several of the country's banks that President Hugo Chavez wants to place two government representatives on the institutions' governing boards…..***

2007 - "BOGOTA, COLOMBIA — Delivering on campaign pledges to move Venezuela toward socialism, President Hugo Chavez announced plans Monday to nationalize the country's telephone and electricity sectors and hinted that he would seek a majority stake in so-called heavy oil projects in the Orinoco River basin.

"We are heading toward socialism, and nothing and no one can prevent it," Chavez said at a ceremony in Caracas to swear in new Cabinet members.".... Source

35 posted on 08/10/2012 5:10:30 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Excellent post. Government intervention is the kiss of death to the free market.


36 posted on 08/10/2012 5:13:15 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
All very true and on point except we are not a democracy... we were a federal republic... we are now a thugocracy. The difference between a republic and a democracy is in a republic... the rights and views of the minority are protected... in a democracy the majority rules... IOW we have mob rule... all powerful and whatever the mob votes for... the mob gets.

LLS

37 posted on 08/10/2012 5:19:37 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (Don't Tread On Me)
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To: agere_contra

How’s that fraudulent LIBOR CDO NyLon A$$Paper digesting?


38 posted on 08/10/2012 5:22:24 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: OldEarlGray
Dude, it’s cool. Take the rest of the day off. My Perl script will take it from here



“ The dangers of a concentration of all power in the general government of a confederacy so vast as ours are too obvious to be disregarded..” ~ Franklin Pierce

Eat A$$ NYLON QU$ILING CHICOM DIRTBAG$


39 posted on 08/10/2012 5:23:20 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: ClearCase_guy

That’s what many people would argue has happened since 2008.


40 posted on 08/10/2012 5:24:50 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: agere_contra

How’s that fraudulent LIBOR CDO NyLon A$$Paper digesting?


41 posted on 08/10/2012 5:37:26 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: ClearCase_guy

nearly everything that has happened in America since the civil war has been a mistake.


42 posted on 08/10/2012 5:41:22 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; agere_contra


A Republic is a system, of governance characterized by the Rule of Law -- and when the Law fails, the Republic fails.

"TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS, [American] GOVERNMENTS ARE INSTITUTED AMONG MEN"

Prosecution of fraud is well within the scope of governance intended by the American founders, but instead of prosecution, we get a farcical parade of laughable "settlements".

When the Law fails, the Republic fails.


43 posted on 08/10/2012 5:43:12 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: OldEarlGray
Honestly it’s no problem. It only takes a mouse click to seamlessly emulate your posts. Let OldEarlGray 2.0 take the strain!



“ Government is like fire. If it is kept within bounds and under the control of the people, it contributes to the welfare of all. But if it gets out of place, if it gets too big and out of control, it destroys the happiness and even the lives of the people” ~ Harold E. Stassen

HOW$ THAT CDO-DIGESTING WORKING OUT 4 U NYLON-TRAITER$$

Ok, my Perl Script can do this all day, but I think the rest of the thread have had enough.

44 posted on 08/10/2012 5:44:08 AM PDT by agere_contra (Vote ABO. Don't choose the Greater Evil and then boast about how principled you are)
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To: agere_contra

How’s that fraudulent LIBOR CDO NyLon A$$Paper digesting?


45 posted on 08/10/2012 5:48:09 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Obama & Co. have been holding themselves back, pending the election.

If they win again, God help us, they will go the full Hugo Chavez route, when Obama has all the "flexibility" he needs.


46 posted on 08/10/2012 5:50:30 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Thank you for allowing me to revisit that fabulous, enlightening essay about who Progressives really are, what they're trying to achieve and what they're willing to do to accomplish it!

The link for those that missed it

47 posted on 08/10/2012 5:52:12 AM PDT by doc11355
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To: agere_contra

Peasant 1: How do you know he’s a king?
Peasant 2: He doesn’t have shyte all over him.

See now that’s a funny script. Yours is just lame and unoriginal.


48 posted on 08/10/2012 6:01:02 AM PDT by OldEarlGray (The POTUS is FUBAR until the White Hut is sanitized with American Tea)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Spain, like Greece, is on the verge of utter economic collapse. No way the government there could solve its problem.
...but “boots on the ground” visitors observe that people are handling it very well: knowing the official/formal system is about to collapse, people are just moving everything off-book, normalizing a new underground economy, and carrying on rather well.

Yes, the $0.2P of liabilities ain’t happening no way no how. The buck will stop somewhere. Knowing it will stop, most people will find a way to be elsewhere when/where it does. Those who don’t, well, sink or swim.

The Soviet Union collapsed when it couldn’t issue paychecks. We’re approaching that point. Funny, Russia and its satellites still exist and are doing pretty well. We will too; maybe a different demographic arrangement, but on the whole “we” will manage.


49 posted on 08/10/2012 6:08:22 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: Travis McGee

I did a bit of gold prospecting for a while.
Doesn’t take much time hanging around the old timers to find out that the guys who really made the money during the gold rush weren’t the miners, well, a few did get rich, but mostly it was the suppliers. The guys who sold them the picks, the axes, the equipment...

might be time to buy a truckload of shovels.

Or, if you are a lady, get ready to get dolled up, because another group that made some pretty solid cash was the whores...

;-)

Trust me, I’m not re-writing history here!


50 posted on 08/10/2012 6:12:37 AM PDT by djf (The barbarian hordes will ALWAYS outnumber the clean-shaven. And they vote.)
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