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The AESA AN/APG-77 radar on the F-22 is very powerful and advanced.

Should give it the advantage in BVR combat.

1 posted on 07/31/2012 9:26:14 AM PDT by moonshot925
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To: moonshot925

I agree, but it would seem to me that you’ve only got so many long range air to air missiles. If ten of our aircraft are challenged by hundreds of an opponent, doesn’t that make them vulnerable?

I’m asking because I don’t know that answer. Hopefully you’re going to alleviate those concerns.


2 posted on 07/31/2012 9:32:04 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Remove all Democrats from the Republican party, and we won't have much Left, just a lot of Right.)
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To: moonshot925

Stealth is only useful when the enemy is using RADAR. When the enemy is using visual guidance, various non-visual sensors, etc. and can shoot lasers, the F-22 is dog food.

No enemy is there yet...yet.


3 posted on 07/31/2012 9:33:46 AM PDT by CodeToad (History says our end is near.)
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To: moonshot925
Since Korea, how many BVR engagements have occured?

/johnny

4 posted on 07/31/2012 9:34:08 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: moonshot925

I saw this article yesterday. Basically, if an enemy aircraft can teleport into close proximity of an F22, there’s a 50/50 chance of the enemy aircraft winning the engagement.

Yep, that sure is disconcerting.


5 posted on 07/31/2012 9:35:49 AM PDT by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: moonshot925

Stealth goes away in a dogfight? Well, duh! At least until you get a cloaking device. Isn’t the whole point to clear the skies BEFORE going bare knuckle in visible contact? The good news is that there’s still a need for the United States Air Force Weapons School.


7 posted on 07/31/2012 9:36:59 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Steyn: "One can argue about whose fault it is, but not ... whose responsibility it is: it's his")
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To: moonshot925

Journalists are such morons. It isn’t a 79 billion dollar advantage, it is 220 million per plane over the Typhoon. With that 220 million you get a plane the Euro pilots said they could not get within 20 miles of, and within in that they were evenly matched. Looks like it is still worth the advantage.


8 posted on 07/31/2012 9:37:46 AM PDT by Chipper (You can't kill an Obamazombie by destroying the brain...they didn't have one to begin with.)
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To: moonshot925

Yeah, we should just scrap the F-22s and replace them with more F-35s, because that’s been working out well for us. /sarc


9 posted on 07/31/2012 9:40:00 AM PDT by Shadow44
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To: Jet Jaguar

Raptor Ping.


10 posted on 07/31/2012 9:40:00 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: moonshot925

Wait’ll they start remotely piloting them. They’ll be able to turn a bit tighter.


11 posted on 07/31/2012 9:40:09 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: moonshot925; A.A. Cunningham
A.A. Cunningham would be so proud...


12 posted on 07/31/2012 9:41:51 AM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: moonshot925
"...The F-22 made its debut at the international Red Flag Alaska training exercise this June..."

Huh. Is that true, this is the first time they had them at Red Flag? That doesn't seem right.

13 posted on 07/31/2012 9:43:13 AM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: moonshot925
Should give it the advantage in BVR combat.

Problem is that most aerial combat doesn't take place at BVR, but at ranges of two miles or less. They made the same incorrect assumptions that the USAF made in the 1950s, until MiG-17s, MiG-21s, and perpetually stupid ROEs made a mockery of U.S. fighters during the Vietnam air war.

These people never learn.

17 posted on 07/31/2012 9:46:27 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: moonshot925

“The F-22 took part in the exercise while under strict flying restrictions imposed by Defense Secretary Leon Panetta”

Would love to know what those restrictions were and how the F-22 would perform without them. The F-22 is tremendously powerful and maneuverable with it’s thrust vectoring. Foreign pilots flying against them in earlier simulated encounters basically said, “It’s not fair, we can’t see it on radar and we can’t lock it up when in visual range.

Panetta is part of the administration that cancelled the F-22 and is a POS in general. I have to wonder if he wasn’t attempting to sabotage the F-22’s performance to justify the Kenyan’s ending the F-22 project.


21 posted on 07/31/2012 9:47:30 AM PDT by MtBaldy (If Obama is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question)
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To: moonshot925

Love this picture of the F-22, too bad we had to retire the shuttle in the background.

23 posted on 07/31/2012 9:48:33 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: moonshot925

There we go again.. Advertising our military vulnerabilities. It’s an 0bama past time!!!!


28 posted on 07/31/2012 9:51:36 AM PDT by GeorgeWashingtonsGhost
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To: moonshot925
..."old-school dogfighting"...

Fifth generation USAF supersonic fighter aircraft are not meant for "old school" dogfighting. Adversarial fighters can't really force "old school" dogfighting on our F-22's and F-35's but they can try if they're not shot down before they know what hit them.

The most recent "old school" dogfighters are the F-14, F-15, F-16 and F-18, all of which are 4th generation USAF/USN supersonic fighter aircraft. I'd be surprised if any one of these can successfully engage the F-22 or the F-35...MAYBE the F-14 Super Tomcat or the F-18 Super Hornet...F-16C ADF...MAYBE with their full complements of Phoenix (F-14) or AMRAAM missiles.



30 posted on 07/31/2012 9:57:52 AM PDT by equaviator (There's nothing like the universe to bring you down to earth again.)
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To: moonshot925
This is all a little to dramatic. The F-22 was never meant to be our only fighter. It is the aircraft that gives us first strike capabilities that take out the enemies first flights and radar. The F-35s are meant to eventually handle the close combat role....if they ever get them up and running!! No airplane can overcome a good pilot vs a bad pilot!!
34 posted on 07/31/2012 9:58:46 AM PDT by ontap
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To: moonshot925

This is how we develop tactics. Place the aircraft in undesirable situations and figure out which tactics are best. When I flew the f-4 in the late 70’s we deployed to Nellis and achieved at least 50% kills against f-15’s, untill they developed tactics to mitigate their vulnerabilities.
Modern fighter pilots consider a multitude of variables and the AOB in real time to succeed. We can’t know what ROE they may have been dealing with to test their tactical options.

If the big balloon ever goes up I doubt visual ID will be required.


40 posted on 07/31/2012 10:12:56 AM PDT by pasodave
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To: moonshot925

I read Hartman’s biography. He was a fascinating person.

One thing I remember is tho all the other German aces said Hartman was the best long range shot, Hartman stressed getting as close as possible.

He said the guns were so much more effective at close range. He also continued to fly the BF-109 long after it was probably obsolete. He probably was just used to it and also he probably got the best equipment, latest improvements, best engines, ground crew etc..

Another interesting tid bit is his parents were missionaries to China. Erich grew up there.


45 posted on 07/31/2012 10:18:13 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: moonshot925

The first task in air combat is see the enemy. Then turn to meet him or surprise him from behind. Small, light, highly maneuverable aircraft have huge advantages in close combat. If a small plane is nearly impossible to see, it is nearly impossible to defeat. (Again in close ranges). By the way, using the new miniature electronics with networked UAS vehicles, along with small manned command combat aircraft, a very effective Air Force could be build for the cost of half a dozen F-22s.


51 posted on 07/31/2012 10:37:21 AM PDT by LukeSW (The truth shall make you free!)
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