Posted on 07/31/2012 9:26:07 AM PDT by moonshot925
Should give it the advantage in BVR combat.
I agree, but it would seem to me that you’ve only got so many long range air to air missiles. If ten of our aircraft are challenged by hundreds of an opponent, doesn’t that make them vulnerable?
I’m asking because I don’t know that answer. Hopefully you’re going to alleviate those concerns.
Stealth is only useful when the enemy is using RADAR. When the enemy is using visual guidance, various non-visual sensors, etc. and can shoot lasers, the F-22 is dog food.
No enemy is there yet...yet.
/johnny
I saw this article yesterday. Basically, if an enemy aircraft can teleport into close proximity of an F22, there’s a 50/50 chance of the enemy aircraft winning the engagement.
Yep, that sure is disconcerting.
Let the F-22’s ‘fence’ with the enemy BVR and blow up ten each. Then retire onto a wing of less-capable-but-cheaper friendlies who can take up the slack.
OR build a frack-tonne of F-22s and reduce their unit price.
Stealth goes away in a dogfight? Well, duh! At least until you get a cloaking device. Isn’t the whole point to clear the skies BEFORE going bare knuckle in visible contact? The good news is that there’s still a need for the United States Air Force Weapons School.
Journalists are such morons. It isn’t a 79 billion dollar advantage, it is 220 million per plane over the Typhoon. With that 220 million you get a plane the Euro pilots said they could not get within 20 miles of, and within in that they were evenly matched. Looks like it is still worth the advantage.
Yeah, we should just scrap the F-22s and replace them with more F-35s, because that’s been working out well for us. /sarc
Raptor Ping.
Wait’ll they start remotely piloting them. They’ll be able to turn a bit tighter.
Huh. Is that true, this is the first time they had them at Red Flag? That doesn't seem right.
That’s right. YEARS ago, during my senior year cadet summer at the Air Force Academy, I got sent to an F-4 squadron at Seymour-Johnson AFB, NC, for three weeks. While there, the Aggressor squadron from Nellis showed up to teach some DACM to the F-4 jocks. They were flying painted-up T-38’s (yep....not even F-5’s for F-20’s; plain ol’ ‘38’s that we all later flew in UPT).
These guys were unreal. They took me with ‘em for a fair number of sorties out past the NC coastline. They positively kicked the living s**t out of the F-4 drivers.
I learned first-hand, then and there, that the quality of the pilot is as important or MORE important than the aircraft. True, speed, acceleration, avionics, etc. ALL count in a big way.....but a far superior pilot in a lesser aircraft can still kick yer ass.
When you can blow up a plane at the end of your enemy’s runway from 40 miles out... what the hell do you need to dog fight for?
LLS
Problem is that most aerial combat doesn't take place at BVR, but at ranges of two miles or less. They made the same incorrect assumptions that the USAF made in the 1950s, until MiG-17s, MiG-21s, and perpetually stupid ROEs made a mockery of U.S. fighters during the Vietnam air war.
These people never learn.
I loved your reply. As they said - they were specifically scripted dog-fights, i.e. they were forced to close to visual distances to see what would happen.
My understanding is that the F-22 flights use a tactic of flying in pairs, with one well behind the second. The tail-end guy is a radar emitter, i.e. he can be found if they can track the F22 radar. The plane in front gets a telemetry feed of the radar image from the back-end plane and shoots his missiles. The aggressor never knows where the missiles came from!
Then there is the bit where you don’t know you are in trouble until you ARE in visual range - with the F22 on your six because you didn’t see the F22 move to sun-ward and come at you because it’s invisible to radar. Whoops!
It sounds very much like any engagement really - you use your platforms best features effectively and stay out of the profile that gives the other guy an advantage over you.
At least one, that I can think of.
In Vietnam, after a “bombing pause”, first mission headed North got a BVR kill because it could be known for certain that the target was not friendly.
I guess I’ve kind of made your point, haven’t I? ;-P
It’s the right question, because its how the Russians eventually beat the Germans. The Russians churned out 1000’s of cheap tanks, while the Germans churned out dozens of very good, very expensive tanks with better range.
Quantity has a quality all its own. We’ve also made this aviation mistake before - eschewing dogfighting - thinking that dogfighting was a thing of the past.
The F-22 is a scary airplane. It can kill other aircraft before it shows up on the other guy’s radar. It’s a good weapon for what it does. Maybe it needs to be accompanied by cheaper dogfighters.
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