Obama And Romney Are Wrong: Outsourcing Is Actually America At Its Best

Forbes ^ | 07/28/2012 | Harry Binswanger

[1rudeboy]

Then I would point you to Boeing’s market share, that you pretend does not exist. And I’m sorry you think I’m a lib . . . the question follows: why are you having such a tough time with the argument I’m making? Surely a True Conservative(tm) such as yourself should be able to dispatch me no problem.

[1rudeboy]

Free trade exists. And it existed the last time I paid somebody $40 to remove an old doghouse from my property.

I understand your point that "free" trade does not exist between countries. But "never" is a strong word.

[Olog-hai]

Not relevant to Alexander Hamilton’s point. A single aircraft builder (with no domestic competition; McDonnell-Douglas, Lockheed, Convair all gone) does not all of the industry a country needs make. Otherwise we’d all be working for Boeing.

[1rudeboy]

Good Lord. You’ve gone from nonsense to absurdity.

[bert]

Just for the record, how many letters of credit have you negotiated?

[wolfman]

What allegiance should businesses hold to the the United States? What is the United states any more? The government loads down businesses with so many taxes and regulations that it becomes impossible for them to DO business here. Our founding fathers fought a war over alot less tyranny than we’re under now. I have no problem with Americans seeking freedom, and freedom has left our shores unfortunately.

[DoughtyOne]

No, I didn't overlook the difference.  You merely assumed I had.

But lets be clear here, NO CHANGE was coming unless we sold out American citizens to move their jobs off-shore.  When we sold those U. S. citizens out, we sold ourselves out.

People making $15.00 an hour spend money, and they spend most of it around home employing other citizens.  We're now enmeshed in the Great Recession praying it won't get worse, and our citizens are now spending the spoils of $8 to $10 dollars per hour, if they're lucky enough to even have a job.  And while this may sound like we're just addressing this wage sector, it's not truly that easy.  We're also addressing the investment industry, because a whole sector of our economy that used to have enough expendable income to invest, now doesn't.  We have massive amounts of unemployed and under employed.  Make no mistake about it, the selling out of our fellow citizens, affected us all.  And even though we do still have manufacturing here, we have sent trillions of dollars worth of it overseas.  Our trade deficit with China was approaching the major portion of $1 trillion dollars per year prior to the down-turn.  Please don't try to tell me we have a robust manufacturing base here, when you yourself know that having $500 dollars in your pocket is not the same as having $1000 dollars there.

Okay great, we have $500 dollars still in our pocket.  Is the multiplier effect as effective as it would be if we were spending $1000 dollars here?  No.  So lets at least be honest with ourselves.

I have no quarrel with the Chinese people.  It saddens me to know that's what you think this all boils down to.  Good grief.  No, it's about a pariah government that is skimming off money to create unrest around the world, and build up it's military so it can hopefully (on their government's part) become as proficient as ours is.  Swell!  It's also about bankrupting our fellow citizens.

Frankly there's an aspect of this that angers me too.  It's the Chinese people and their hopes for a bright future...  Where's the hopes of our own citizens mentioned in your comments?  Oh that's right, they were missing.

At a time when no other nation on the planet was building up trade deficits with China, the United States was already in for $0.5 trillion of it per year.  That bastard piehole Senator Orin Hatch went so far as to offer to gift our entire patent database to China.  Imagine us gifting Nazi Germany our entire patent database in 1934.  That's the level of treachery we're addressing here.

As you have so eloquently stated, China will continue to grow.  I agree, and this time it was us who awoke a sleeping giant.

As for the Chinese government, and whether it changes or not, the Chinese people see things differently than we do.  They see the region as their own.  They want to claim every blade of grass that pops up out of the South Western portion of the Pacific, and that includes the areas rightfully claimed by other nations.  They also want to capture the island of Taiwan.  And lest you tell me how reasoned that is, you really need to do some study about the history of Taiwan.  China's claim to it is a relatively recent development in the overall scheme of things.

We are going to be confronted on the high seas by a belligerent China, and we will have financed every bit of it.  Many of our young men and women will die.  Our very homeland will be threatened by this.  And ultimately all this will take place, because some idiot thought it was a great idea to make it so we could buy a VCR at half the cost, and all it would cost us is selling out our neighbor's lively-hood.  Never-mind you have to replace the VCRs every two years when they quit working.

Our policy with China turned down-right suicidal and as China builds up, it's becoming more evident by the day.

It used to be the United States who was trying to sound the voice of reason around the planet, sending our military and citizens there.  Now China is taking on that roll.  Good luck with that.  Good luck with the clapping for China now that it's becoming a policing force on the high seas as far away as Somalia and the Western end of the Indian Ocean.  This is only the start of where we are headed.

We need a Winston Churchill today, not an Orin Hatch.

[Olog-hai]

Right; Alexander Hamilton spoke of nonsense and absurdity. The realities on the world stage are nonsense and absurdity. Are you trying to make a point?

[Olog-hai]

Why are you trying to change the subject? Does the mere act of negotiating letters of credit make one an expert on fanatical communists?

[Olog-hai]

All of that is correct. None of them have a lick of sense of national security, and don’t see China’s government for the fanatics they are. Their foreign policy has been unchanging in regarding the USA as their number-one enemy, and their goal of bringing worldwide communism still stands; it’s been quite active in Africa and South America (the latter a clear violation of the Monroe Doctrine), and the only entity that has been a serious rival in those continents (ironically, and especially for those continents’ natural resources) has been the European Union.

[DoughtyOne]

Electronics and the patents that were required to be revealed before China would allow them to be produced in country, are not worthless widgets.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

Open war in the South China Sea

"By establishing a US military base in Darwin and given Washington’s 'backing' for the claimant states, especially the Philippines, against the PRC, the US and Australia have deepened their involvement directly or indirectly in the conflict, making the region more vulnerable to war."

Besides the problems listed in the Jakarta Post it seems to me that Red China's rampant economic problems, rampant unrest, and the unprecedented problems in the Party's efforts to transfer leadership -- which by itself could lead to revolution depending upon the power of Bo -- the Communists' only choice will be war to distract the population.

Then can we back America without being insulted and called names?

[1rudeboy]

I suppose the only point I can make at this stage is that you are not Alexander Hamilton.

[1rudeboy]

And that's another thing: as of the late 1970's, GM and our other automobile manufacturers were taking apart Jap autos to see what made them tick. That's just one example: to deny otherwise would be to claim that the Chinese "discovered" the concept.

And if that is the case, then we suck.

[1rudeboy]

First off, even the postulates of classical trade theory imply that large nations like ours can benefit from tariffs.

Milton Friedman, if he was alive, would like to have a word with you.

[sergeantdave]

“I suppose the only point I can make at this stage is that you are not Alexander Hamilton.”

You do that all the time. You did that to me back in 2004.

:-)

[1rudeboy]

Alexander? You’re still alive? I never meant for you to see me naked, I swear.

[reardensteel]

The results you cite are true, but what is the reasoning? China is growing because it’s population is producing value. The US is declining because we are producing less value - the reason? Our popular culture and leadership have become shallow and tribal.