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There’s Still Hope for the Planet (Barf alert!)
NY Times ^ | July 21, 2012 | DAVID LEONHARDT

Posted on 07/22/2012 8:23:36 PM PDT by neverdem

YOU don’t have to be a climate scientist these days to know that the climate has problems. You just have to step outside.

The United States is now enduring its warmest year on record, and the 13 warmest years for the entire planet have all occurred since 1998, according to data that stretches back to 1880. No one day’s weather can be tied to global warming, of course, but more than a decade’s worth of changing weather surely can be, scientists say. Meanwhile, the country often seems to be moving further away from doing something about climate change, with the issue having all but fallen out of the national debate.

Behind the scenes, however, a somewhat different story is starting to emerge — one that offers reason for optimism to anyone worried about the planet. The world’s largest economies may now be in the process of creating a climate-change response that does not depend on the politically painful process of raising the price of dirty energy. The response is not guaranteed to work, given the scale of the problem. But the early successes have been notable.

Over the last several years, the governments of the United States, Europe and China have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on...

--snip--

Even natural gas, a hotly debated topic among climate experts, helps make the point. Thanks in part to earlier government investments, energy companies have been able to extract much more natural gas than once seemed possible. The use of natural gas to generate electricity — far from perfectly clean but less carbon-intensive than coal use — has jumped 25 percent since 2008, while prices have fallen more than 80 percent. Natural gas now generates as much electricity as coal in the United States, which would have been unthinkable not long ago...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: climatechange; energy; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax

The government has a massive debt, and the Great Recession is still going strong, but this fool wants clean energy! It's time for the cheapest energy possible!

1 posted on 07/22/2012 8:23:40 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

We can’t even control the economy and this jughead wants to control the weather. What the hell are they teaching these morons in school these days?


2 posted on 07/22/2012 8:30:10 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Without the Second Amendment, the other twenty-six will cease to exist.)
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To: neverdem
Pack of lies.
3 posted on 07/22/2012 8:32:33 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

I’m trying to keep up. I thought 1998 was the hottest year on record, and that we were cooling since then. Did I hear the MSM wrongly?


4 posted on 07/22/2012 8:32:33 PM PDT by boop (I hate hippies and dopeheads. Just hate them. ...Ernest Borgnine)
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To: neverdem

What most don’t understand about solar or wind derived energy is that there is no free lunch. If you remove energy from the environment to channel it elsewhere, it will change the climate also. For instance, taking capturning sunlight and turning it into electricity keeps it from warming the area it would have normally. This will can the local environment with other consequences. Changing wind patterns by slowing wind to capture its energy also affects the environmnet where it occurs. What will be the consequences?

No matter how you generate or reroute energy, it will have environmental impacts. How serious, I couldn’t begin to say.


5 posted on 07/22/2012 8:38:54 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: neverdem
You just have to step outside.

Pure drivel. There is plenty of rain in the pacific NW. There is a stripe of drought in the middle of the country. There is excess rain in east Texas and up towards the NE from there. Did the wizards with their climate models predict this striping effect? Hell no. The weathermen can't predict this striping even with their much better models. Now some climate model wizards might point out that they can ignore initial conditions and make "projections" instead of predictions. The trouble is that none of their projections showed the current striping of precipitation across the U.S.

Then they insinuate that the striping comes from blocking which comes from low sea ice. There's an easy answer for that. The blocking pattern caused the highest sea ice in history around Alaska this past winter. Low sea ice caused high sea ice?? Gimme a break.

6 posted on 07/22/2012 8:39:54 PM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: Sola Veritas
For instance, taking capturning sunlight and turning it into electricity keeps it from warming the area it would have normally.

That example is not likely to cause any problems. The thermal storage of solar energy is far more affected by land use and natural factors. For example a parking lot would have a lot greater effect on the weather than an equivalent sized solar PV farm. Solar thermal might be a little different since it concentrates the heat, boils water and creates water vapor.

7 posted on 07/22/2012 8:44:28 PM PDT by palmer (Jim, please bill me 50 cents for this completely useless post)
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To: neverdem
The United States is now enduring its warmest year on record,

And Japan is having excessive rain and cold, while New Zealand is having an unseasonably cold winter.

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc

8 posted on 07/22/2012 8:46:25 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: palmer

I still want to know how they plan on fixing the climate and what happens if the go too far the other way. What happens if it gets too cold and Africa starts to freeze. What are their plans?

Give us money is not a solutions.


9 posted on 07/22/2012 8:46:53 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (ABO 2012)
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To: palmer

“For example a parking lot would have a lot greater effect on the weather than an equivalent sized solar PV farm.”

Good point and agreed. A “dark” parking lot would have a greater impact. I do think you understand my main point though. Anything we do to redirect energy or to generate it will affect the environment. As I said, there is no free lunch.


10 posted on 07/22/2012 8:51:26 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Sola Veritas
As I said, there is no free lunch.

Ah... but there is a lot of lunch that is just thrown away. We need to learn to use that wasted energy better. There are new and untapped energy sources that we are on the verge of making practical.

11 posted on 07/22/2012 9:16:04 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: palmer; Sola Veritas
For example a parking lot would have a lot greater effect on the weather than an equivalent sized solar PV farm. Solar thermal might be a little different since it concentrates the heat, boils water and creates water vapor.

Why not incorporate solar panels into the parking lot?

Make an asphalt that generates electricity from light, and pressure, and pave the heck out of the highways.

Put these along the highway, at the sides of overpasses, etc, and generate power from the passing vehicles.

They don't kill birds, they don't make a 'thump, thump, thump' noise, and they can be painted cool colors.

12 posted on 07/22/2012 9:22:29 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: boop

In the US 1934, 1921, and 1931 are in the top ten warmest years.

So, what was going on back then?

And why are the reported hottest years in the rest of the world all very recent but in the US, some of the record years are from long ago, such as the 20s, 30s, and 50s?

We are warming slower than the rest of the world??


13 posted on 07/22/2012 9:32:53 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: UCANSEE2

Leave to the NYT to get it upside down. The earth has been cooling for the last 13 years not increasing temperatures.
Do the opposite of the NYT ans you will be right.


14 posted on 07/22/2012 9:40:02 PM PDT by Kozy (Calling Al Gore)
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To: neverdem

Global varming must be causing liebrals brain lobes to swell..

amazing how the nuclear industry which offers so many real long term jobs is so low.. it should be much higher.


15 posted on 07/22/2012 9:41:23 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: palmer

You ain’t kidding...my golf season here in Seattle north has been a series of rain outs. It is almost end of July and it rained again today!

As for “MAN MADE” global warming, how did every ice age end?
You betcha it was ferocious global warming!


16 posted on 07/22/2012 9:41:47 PM PDT by entropy12 (Hate is the most insidious emotion, it will rot your gut from the inside.)
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To: neverdem

Then riddle me this, greenies, why is it that until about 100yrs ago, there were citrus groves as far north as southern GA? Now only a handful remain north of the Rat(Disney World, Orlando area). If there were any truth to this man-made global warming hysteria there would be palm trees growing in the Catskills by now. BTW, notice how it’s referred to as MAN-made instead of the more PC, gender neutral PERSON-made global warming? As if we’re too unsophisticated and ignernt to see though the transparent attempt at suble manipulation. But then again the massas are the asses.


17 posted on 07/22/2012 9:42:26 PM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: Impala64ssa

Darn it! i meant MASSES! bleepin keyboard!


18 posted on 07/22/2012 9:44:28 PM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: UCANSEE2
Make an asphalt that generates electricity from light, and pressure, and pave the heck out of the highways. Put these (picture of helical rotors) along the highway, at the sides of overpasses, etc, and generate power from the passing vehicles.

That new energy has to come from somewhere. Where?

Generating electricity from pressure due to passing vehicles MUST take energy from the vehicles. The road must be made slightly more flexible to generate electricity, which makes the road 'softer.' Everyone's gas mileage is slightly less. Net loss of energy.

Putting rotors along the highways uses the moving river of air generated by moving vehicles. When the air hits the rotors, it slows down. Cars run into this slower air and lose speed. Gas mileage for these cars is slightly less. Net loss of energy.

Sorry, no free lunch here. You are just stealing energy from the cars on the roads. And, since there is an energy conversion, some energy is lost. Hence the net loss of energy in both methods.

19 posted on 07/22/2012 9:47:50 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: UCANSEE2

I can see the lawsuits now from people who crack up their cars watching the pretty psychedelic designs, or the ones who have seizures...:)

Heh, only kidding! (it made me think about the “Opti-Grab”!


20 posted on 07/22/2012 9:49:10 PM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: neverdem
It always makes me laugh when some pin head declares that 120 years of manipulated data (out of 4.5 billion years of the earth's existence ), is all they need to prove that we are going to die because the earth is too fragile to survive a .5 degree rise in temperature.

This article proves that going back 2000 years to the Roman Empire, we are in a cooling pattern.

21 posted on 07/22/2012 9:59:56 PM PDT by submarinerswife (Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results~Einstein)
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To: Right Wing Assault

Yes, one of my physics professors way back when admonished us young skulls full of mush with TINSTAAFL, There is no such thing as a free lunch. And for those who don’t get it, BOHICA, Bend over, here it comes again.


22 posted on 07/22/2012 10:02:18 PM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: submarinerswife

Thanks for the link!


23 posted on 07/22/2012 10:19:52 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem
Yes the climate is changing!
It aways has.

Now what does the Marxist New York Times think you should do
about this non-crisis crisis?
All you have to do is allow them to create a one world
tyrannical, unelected, unaccountable government wherein
your are a subservient slave to them and they will save you.

24 posted on 07/22/2012 10:43:52 PM PDT by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: neverdem

WOULD SOMEONE PLEASE....send some of the WARMTH to us here in Western Oregon....high of oh, maybe 65 today....it’s JULY 22nd!!! Normally it’s in the low 80’s....and low 50’s at night (tonight forecast for 48!!!


25 posted on 07/22/2012 11:02:07 PM PDT by goodnesswins (What has happened to America?)
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To: Right Wing Assault

Damn that Conservation of Energy thing. Someone needs to pass a law!


26 posted on 07/22/2012 11:03:37 PM PDT by Lazamataz (I hate the Universe, and it hates me.)
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To: goodnesswins

Took the words out of my mouth! Here in Seattle my furnace came on in the middle of the afternoon. It’s set at 68.


27 posted on 07/23/2012 1:32:26 AM PDT by boop (I hate hippies and dopeheads. Just hate them. ...Ernest Borgnine)
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To: Impala64ssa
notice how it’s referred to as MAN-made instead of the more PC, gender neutral PERSON-made global warming?

Just be grateful that it's not calledWHITE MAN-made global warming.

28 posted on 07/23/2012 5:28:12 AM PDT by submarinerswife (Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results~Einstein)
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To: Right Wing Assault
OK. We'll just put small wind turbines on the backs of all vehicles. That will generate enough electricity to offset the loss to the soft road and roadside wind turbines.


29 posted on 07/23/2012 2:53:31 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: neverdem
...and the 13 warmest years for the entire planet have all occurred since 1998, according to data that stretches back to 1880.

The mind boggles that the author actually wrote this.

(Or am I the only one that sees a problem with such a statement...?)

30 posted on 07/23/2012 3:00:33 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: rlmorel
I can see the lawsuits now from people who crack up their cars watching the pretty psychedelic designs, or the ones who have seizures

Nah. These roads will not only generate power, they will use some of that energy to power the cars via electro-magnetic induction. The cars will also be on AUTODRIVE with a GPS linked computer which (by law) does all driving on highways.

Everyone will be free to gawk at the passing scenery.

and there will be flying cars too, and unicorns, and... life will be found on the moon.


31 posted on 07/23/2012 3:03:41 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Sola Veritas
"What most don’t understand about solar or wind derived energy is that there is no free lunch..."

EGGSactly Batman. I just watched an eye opening documentary called: Windfall.

It was a shocker. Touched on all sorts of issues involving wind power that I never even considered.

32 posted on 07/23/2012 3:08:15 PM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: UCANSEE2

Hahahaha...awesome...now THAT graphic made me laugh.

I STILL want my flying car, darn it.


33 posted on 07/23/2012 4:03:36 PM PDT by rlmorel ("The safest road to Hell is the gradual one." Screwtape (C.S. Lewis))
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To: Mad Dawgg
"...and the 13 warmest years for the entire planet have all occurred since 1998, according to data that stretches back to 1880."

The mind boggles that the author actually wrote this.

(Or am I the only one that sees a problem with such a statement...?)

It's one of the reasons for a barf alert. There were others.

34 posted on 07/23/2012 4:30:13 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: rlmorel
I STILL want my flying car, darn it.


35 posted on 07/24/2012 3:03:53 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lame and ill-informed post)
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