Posted on 05/18/2012 11:00:10 AM PDT by Mikey_1962
Agree 100% ...... That , back door politics (bribes), what was already in the inventory in the way of ought six etc .... many factors are in play with such decisions and I make no pretense as to the polidiot process for selecting a goobermint combat cartridge.
I have an old Swedish Mauser that was custom built for me on a chunk of 5A walnut decades ago in 6.5x55 and it is STILL my favorite hunting rifle. I use 6.5 grendel in a few of my varmint rigs.
Just my own PDW’s & Hunting tools .... then I choose what is best for me and what I harvest and my CONUS threat of soft illicit criminals bent on hurting me or mine is an evolving hobby of sorts. Always new and improved to test and ignore.
But you knew all that .....:o)
Stay safe !
I was reading an article in Guns & Ammo a few months ago. It was a comparison of the Garand and the Arisaka.
As you said, the Japanese went from 6.5 to a .303 caliber. The reason given was that it was much better for odd rounds such as tracer and I can’t remember the other specialty rounds.
I suspect those problems are no longer a deciding factor.
The .276, or thereabouts, is nothing to sneeze at. And notice that after WWII, when the Brits were considering the EM-2 bullpup, yep it was a .276/.280.
Sorta puts you in mind of the Remington 6.8 SPC cartridge for the M16A2/M4, doesn't it?
Interesting, I’d never heard that. I’d always assumed (based on bits of anecdotal evidence) that it was an issue of “inadequate energy transfer”—that it passed through the target without doing much damage.
I concur that modern design and newer ballistic knowledge might overcome that.
I might’ve settled for the .276 Pedersen (or its FN near-match, the 7mm x 49 originally developed for the FAL) in a FAL package. (Can’t help it...I’m a confirmed FALophile!)
Recently I was surprised to learn how many of the EM prototypes are still around...some in private collections, even. For a long time I’d believed the only surviving EM prototype was the one in the Lithgow Arsenal museum in Australia...it had been loaned to the Aussies in the 50s, and they conveniently “failed” to return it.
Try the Czech Vz52 cartridge of the *SHE* rifle, the Czech equivalent of the SKS, a 7,62x45mm, then neck it down for a .280 bullet. Oh, and it's short enough to feed through a .223-cartridge length action, though it REALLY likes the Czech Vz58 AK-lookalike action designed for it, but (mostly) produced in 7,62x39mm M43.
See my previous posts above. The real irony is that the great bulk of WWI production .30 caliber ball had unannealled case necks, and by WWII case neck fractures were frequent enough that most of the older *war reserve* ammo was unusable in the automatic actions of .30 Brownings, BARs- and M1 Garands. A good deal of it was burned up in training, though, and served for stateside guard purposes.
You can also “cheat”, and hold the bolt handle back with your right hand while you insert the clip with your left. The clip clicks in, you let go of the handle, and your thumb is not in the way.
“The real irony is that the great bulk of WWI production .30 caliber ball had unannealled case necks, and by WWII case neck fractures were frequent enough that most of the older *war reserve* ammo was unusable in the automatic actions of .30 Brownings, BARs- and M1 Garands. A good deal of it was burned up in training, though, and served for stateside guard purposes.”
YES! This is true of virtually all of the pre-WW2 necked ammo in my collection...”season cracking”, I think it’s called. On some rounds I was literally able to pull the bullet out of the case with my fingers. Also true of a lot of the M1 Ball ammo made in the 20s and 30s...I’ve seen pics of this ammo that had complete case splits, both on firing and just sitting in the box. On my bookshelf is a round of 1940 .30-06 with a hairline season crack down most of the case, plain as day.
Some of the WWI-vintage ammo aged poorly in other areas too...both a WW2 vet I know, and a fellow who shot some 1918 ammo in the early 50s, recall getting either hangfires (click-BOOM) or a “pop” and a cloud of red smoke out the muzzle. And most of the “Battling Bastards” holding the line in the opening days were probably shooting this stuff.
I’ve been told that both WW1 and interwar ammo was common enough on the civilian market into the early 70s, that the NRA issued a bulletin advising that any surplus .30-06 made before 1940 should not be fired.
Another irony, surrounding the “war reserve ammo” reason to drop the .276 cartridge...by the time the Garand design was finally adopted (1936), the supply of World War I-era .30-06 was “officially” exhausted. Around this time, base-level repair shops were officially forbidden to continue using “ammonia dope” to remove copper fouling left in gun barrels by the cupro-nickel jackets of the old M1906 ammo.
Of course, that could also have been a convenient excuse to request funding for supplies of the new M1 Ball ammo....
(”Ammonia dope” is a chemical solution made up to dissolve copper deposits left by bullets. Done properly, it works very well...done improperly, it can destroy the barrel.)
I first heard about using window cleaner with ammonia to kill the corrosive salts in mil surplus ammo many years ago. I use it on my new guns now makes barrels sparkle just make sure it is dried out then lay the oil to it....
I’ve heard of that too, but only recently. Main trick I was taught was to use water—preferably hot soapy water—to dissolve and wash the primer salts out of the barrel.
Interestingly, while use of ammonia dope was supposedly banned by the US Army in the 1930s, a 1950s manual from FN of Belgium (describing depot-level maintenance for the FAL rifle) still listed the recipe and how to use it.
Some people have told me it would ruin a gun but I have been using it for over 40 yrs and never had a speck of rust! it is also good with black powder.
The Marines did look seriously at the Johnson semi-auto rifle and LMG, but the Garand got selected in the end. I've had two Johnsons over the years. The quick change barrel and stripper clip loading of the 10-round rotary magazine not withstanding, I found the M1 superior when it came to maintenance.
The worst part of the Johnson design is the two special captive pins that hold the rifle together. The front pin secures the front of the magazine, but the rear holds the butt stock on. Lose this pin and the rifle self-disassembles itself. Fortunately, there is a guy that specializes in replicating Johnson parts and he is making these pins.
The M1A from Springfield Armory (Geneseo, IL) is available in .243 Winchester caliber if you want to approximate the .276 Pedersen (7x51mm) round. VLTOR makes a really fine telescoping stock for the M1A that makes a very hand carbine when fitted to their SOCOM II rifle. I believe you can order this combo from Springfield and the accessory rail.
My Springfield NM Garand and Austrian StG 58 FN FAL are the finest fighting rifles I own. I’ll go to the next American Civil War with either of them. The Garand shoots way better than I can.
Absolutely so. From around the early 1960s to mid-1975 or so, I used to get the *old stuff* free, in GI garbage cans full, from my local National Guard armory, the local commander of which was our next-door neighbor, whom I kept in .38 and .357 handloads for his sixguns.
The bullets got pulled and used in all sorts of things, but mostly in M1917 Enfield rifles, [which I preferred for the sights] .30-06 Mausers and Garand reloads, with occasional krag and Swiss 7.5 periods thrown in. Powder got used, of course, and the cases were cut down below the necks, and many were turned into either shot cartridge loads for use in M1917 Colts or reworked into 7,92x33 brass for the German MP44- the old GI brass was usually okay below the case neck so long as the corrosive mercuric primers hadn't been popped.
Other useful freebies I got at the time: free .30-40 blanks, shipped to the local VFW and American Legion posts by the caseload, and useless in their M1903 Springfields. I delinked a few cans worth of M1906 .30 blanks on Browning MG belts and made a fast trade, which worked very well- Krag actions were going for $1.50 each from the DCM at the time, and for not much more than that from surplus outlets.
Some of the Bullets came from the old .30-06 ball [I'd get .30-03 every now and again, ran around $25/ 1000] but my favourite loads were made up using the bullets from *.30 automatic pistol* cartridges, actually the ammo for the WWI Pedersen Device, scrapped out after the war. Then I found out that ammo could be used in inexpensive French MAS 35A and MAS 35S handguns as well as some nice light .30-40 and M1 carbine loads. What the collecrtors would give for one of those old Remmy .30 auto pistol boxes now....
Great choice for the daytime. I've added a Holbrook Device to my Garand to keep it from throwing away perfectly good clips, and I'm working on an article for Survival Blog on bringing Mr. Garand's gift to riflemen into the XXI Century.
However, it is nice to also have something that can use ammo you can get from friendlies if there are any, or from hostiles who don't need such things any more if there aren't, especially after the sun goes down, and the Garand's muzzle flash shouts *shoot grenades here.*
No matter to me. I have to very carefully clean and dry rifles I've de-Cosmolined by my usual procedure of taking them to the local car wash. The hot water spray works great [no hot wax, please!] but the water softener used at such establishments is...salt. Accordingly, rinse well after wards, preferably a couple of times. And then oil appropriately.
I am opining for the fjords.
Beautiful plumage, what!
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