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Retired College Teacher With $152,000 Pension Claims Pension Reform is Theft (Illinois)
Champion News ^ | Apr 27, 2012 | Bill Zettler

Posted on 05/02/2012 5:07:10 AM PDT by KeyLargo

Retired College Teacher With $152,000 Pension Claims Pension Reform is Theft

April 27, 2012 By Bill Zettler

Michael Corn, a retired college teacher, recently wrote a letter-to-the-editor at the Daily Herald equating the unfunded Illinois pension system with theft. And I agree it is theft but I would argue the thief is the public employee not the legislature or taxpayer as Mr. Horn claims.

Mr. Corn laments that he paid 8% for his pension and for that unholy contribution he feels he has earned his $12,707.59 monthly pension or $152,490.84 per year. Mr. Corn paid his 8% for all of 31 years too. Wow that’s impressive. The rest of us have to work 40 or 45 year careers in order to get our pension (Social Security) at age 62 or 67 respectively. But then again teachers are special.

Now the greedy private sector taxpayers, the weirdo 95% of citizens without state pensions, who are responsible for paying for Mr. Corn’s $152,490.84 annual pension, contribute 6.2% to their own pension (called Social Security) and at age 62 after 40 years of contributions can take down a huge maximum pension of $22,260 annually or about one-seventh of Mr. Corn’s annual pension. So Mr. Corn contributes at a rate 22% higher but for 9 fewer years but receives 7 times the pension. And Mr. Corn retired earlier too at age 59. What a terrible deal for Mr. Corn. No wonder he is complaining.

(Excerpt) Read more at championnews.net ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: abuse; bankrupt; pensions; teachers
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1 posted on 05/02/2012 5:07:18 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

By this same logic, liberalism is theft.


2 posted on 05/02/2012 5:08:46 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network ("anti-American dog-eating freak" so how is it even possible, you don't wonder "who?")
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To: KeyLargo

college teachers who can’t add


3 posted on 05/02/2012 5:12:21 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: KeyLargo

“...as Mr. Horn claims. Mr. Corn laments...”

Is it Horn or Corn? I must need more coffee or something.


4 posted on 05/02/2012 5:14:02 AM PDT by carriage_hill (((.)))
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To: KeyLargo

Stop blaming the teacher and start blaming the system.The guy went into the profession knowing what the future outcome would be as far as present pension payments would be . Why is he getting hammered for making a career decision that was a hell of a lot better than 90% of the people in the state. He planed his retirement on that future payout and should be entitled to every penny of it.Arguments that are negative about public pension payouts are the same as the 99% wackos complaining about banks and corporation profits.In life you make decisions. It seems that this guys decision on career was better than the complainers.


5 posted on 05/02/2012 5:17:52 AM PDT by Renegade
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To: KeyLargo
The rest of us have to work 40 or 45 year careers in order to get our pension (Social Security) at age 62 or 67 respectively

Bill, please tell me you have not worked that long and are only planning on Social Security for you retirement income.

6 posted on 05/02/2012 5:18:42 AM PDT by Michael.SF. (When you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.)
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To: KeyLargo

Mr. Corn (or possibly Horn) is quite correct. He entered into a good faith contract which is now being backed out of. He is entirely logical to consider this theft.

However.

He presumably supported a decades-old scam under which politicians were elected to office essentially by pandering to the teachers’ and other unions, then paid for their election by agreeing to unsustainable pension plans and other benefits.

Pension plans were always a popular payoff because they could be kicked down the road a decade or two. The pols would be out of office by then, so they wouldn’t have to take the heat when their promises turned out to be impossible to meet.

In the final analysis, it’s the fault of We the People. The vast majority of us, including myself, were unwilling to get down in the mud to do the dirty work of ensuring fiscal sanity.

This is a classic example of regulatory capture. When a small group with intense interest in a particular issue is pitted against a far larger group with diffused (in reality no) interest in an issue, the small group will tend to get its own way 90% of the time.

Elections to school boards and municipal/state offices are of little interest to most people. Why should they be? So who gets elected tends to be those who pander most successfully to those who do care, public employees. These pols then wind up negotiating essentially with those who hired them as to how to spend someone else’s money.

The main issue is that when something is unsustainable, it will not be sustained.


7 posted on 05/02/2012 5:26:31 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Renegade

Bingo! A stoggie for Renegade...the teach is just insisting on what was promised to him. If the idiot system is so screwed up that it makes commitments like this...pay up suckkas.


8 posted on 05/02/2012 5:27:11 AM PDT by Cuttnhorse
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To: Renegade

Thank you Renegade! I lamented awhile back about a group wanting to take my Hub’s pension away (he paid in about 9% over 30 years)here in Texas. My Hub’s pension isn’t ANYWHERE near Mr. Corn’s but he paid into it, the City of Houston entered into a contract with him and now the city is trying to crawfish on these retired employees. Needless to say, and much to my disappointment there were more on this forum that thought it was all right than those who did not. We’re in a minority on here Renegade.


9 posted on 05/02/2012 5:31:33 AM PDT by Dawgreg (Happiness is not having what you want, but wanting what you have.)
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To: Renegade

You analyzed the situation correctly.

But since when do gubbermints keep their word?


10 posted on 05/02/2012 5:32:26 AM PDT by sauropod (You can elect your very own tyranny - Mark Levin)
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To: KeyLargo

Actually, he is largely correct. He had a contract with the state. The state agreed to pay X each year while he worked, and then Y each year after he left. No one forced the state to make that contract, and the people elected the politicians who approved it.

If the state wants to renegotiate based on inability to pay, let the state go bankrupt and renegotiate ALL of its debt.


11 posted on 05/02/2012 5:48:53 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (A conservative can't please a liberal unless he jumps in front of a bus or off of a cliff)
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To: KeyLargo

Was it theft when OJ re-stole his trophies?


12 posted on 05/02/2012 5:51:50 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: Renegade

He’s perfectly fond of grandfather agreements, whereby teachers like me get screwed over, and have zero pensions, than taking a cut in his.

Who cares if the system collapses so long as he gets his? Thanks!


13 posted on 05/02/2012 5:52:03 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Hope is a Goode thing, maybe the best of things, and no Goode thing ever dies.)
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To: Cuttnhorse
What part of the situations like this were caused by public employee union/government collusion?
14 posted on 05/02/2012 5:52:13 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: Sherman Logan

Actually, you have analyzed the situation right on the “money”.

This teacher, all the other teachers, all social security pensioners, all those who rely neither private pensions or social security but their own savings... will eventually get Nada, when the system collapses in chaos.

A reminder is in order that the operational debt as of yesterday was 101% of GDP.

And rising.


15 posted on 05/02/2012 5:53:41 AM PDT by C210N (Wanted: Tagline)
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To: Dawgreg

“(he paid in about 9% over 30 years)”

Are you happy with the current system whereby the young’uns get no pension whatsoever so that we can work and pay the other 91 percent of yours?

Where do you think the pension money is coming from?


16 posted on 05/02/2012 5:54:27 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Hope is a Goode thing, maybe the best of things, and no Goode thing ever dies.)
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To: sauropod
It really comes down to the issue of "Austerity". In the USA we aren't quite there (yet) but in Europe it's the big issue.

"Austerity" is when the government has to say, "I know we made promises. I know you made life choices based on what we told you. I know you planned your retirement based on this stuff. But the money isn't there, and we cannot hold up our end of the bargain. Basically, you're screwed."

That conversation is going on across Europe now. In the US, the public service employee unions, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid -- all of these areas will find the Government saying, "I know what we promised you -- but you're screwed."

Big changes are coming, because there is no money.

17 posted on 05/02/2012 5:54:54 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Like Emmett Till, Trayvon Martin has become simply a stick with which to beat Whites.)
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To: carriage_hill

The largest pension in Illinois currently for a college professor is near $425,000.. that my friend is theft!


18 posted on 05/02/2012 5:54:54 AM PDT by Why So Serious (There is no cure for stupidity!!!)
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To: Michael.SF.

I’m sure many of us HAD planned for our retirement, but between the losses since 2008, and the rumors of the Ear Leader and his cohorts wanting to “tap” retirement funds for their ever-growing hunger for revenue. . . I’m not sure many of us TRUST that plan any more. . .


19 posted on 05/02/2012 5:55:53 AM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: KeyLargo
While I certainly don't think his pension was 'earned', he entered into a contract with his employer, and his employer entered into a contract with him. If he did the work and put in the time that was specified in that contract, then his employer owes him the pension that was specified in that contract.
Taking that from him is, indeed, theft.

Going forward though, new hires need to be given much more believable benefits.

20 posted on 05/02/2012 6:04:14 AM PDT by Washi (Surviving the Zombie Apocalypse, one head-shot at a time.)
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To: KeyLargo

If this thieving commmunist indoctrinator thinks this is bad, just wait till his socialist utopia goes broke.


21 posted on 05/02/2012 6:07:28 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: Michael.SF.

Our retirement income got wiped out by medical debt years ago. Took us a decade to get out of that hole. Still don’t have nearly enough to even consider retirement. I’ll be working until the day I die.


22 posted on 05/02/2012 6:09:35 AM PDT by TheWriterTX (Riding the Long-Wave Economic Contraction, Baby!)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Big changes are coming, because there is no money.


Unfortunately, the govt is HUNGRY and will do what ever is necessary to get the remainder.


23 posted on 05/02/2012 6:18:09 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.)
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To: Why So Serious
The largest pension in Illinois currently for a college professor is near $425,000.. that my friend is theft!

In fact the whole Big-Academia "college education" thing is a pathetic farce.

24 posted on 05/02/2012 6:19:02 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

http://www.illinoisisbroke.com/


25 posted on 05/02/2012 6:27:20 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: Cuttnhorse
If the idiot system is so screwed up that it makes commitments like this...pay up suckkas.

There isn't any money to pay them. That's the problem. How are public employees who get pension cuts any different from bond holders of a company that fails?

26 posted on 05/02/2012 6:33:58 AM PDT by Poison Pill (Obama is the hopium of the masses)
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To: KeyLargo
I don't see any info of how much he made (so how much his 8% was), how much more the state added to it and what the rate of return was. For quite a while state employees were exempt from Social Security if they had their own retirement plan. When I was a student employee at a state university I didn't have to pay SS even though I declined participation in the retirement plan because the plan was available to me. If all of the money which would have otherwise gone into SS for 30 years went into his own pension he might have enough to pay for a $152,000 per year annuity.

The comparison to how much Social Security would pay is a weak on because everyone knows that SS is a bad "investment" which is really just an income transfer scheme. Even if counted as an investment, the rate of return on a person who pays and therefore collects the maximum amount skews the results because SS participants at the top end are screwed by the disproportionality of SS payments. A person who earns and pays 50% of the cap gets 75% of the maximum benefits received by someone who earned and pay at the cap for an entire career.

27 posted on 05/02/2012 6:34:33 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (You only have three billion heartbeats in a lifetime.How many does the government claim as its own?)
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To: Renegade
The guy went into the profession knowing what the future outcome would be as far as present pension payments would be .

Well the future is here. What he though he knew didn't pan out.

28 posted on 05/02/2012 6:37:44 AM PDT by Poison Pill (Obama is the hopium of the masses)
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To: KeyLargo
re: Illinois is broke

Looks like a damn good reason to default on the pensions, fire all the "educators", close the books on public "education" and lease all the buildings out to private citizens who want to own and operate the education industry.

"Special-ed", "Gifted Children", and other various parochial and specialized-study schools could all crop up to either succeed or fail on their own merit.

Obviously the thieving teacher's unions would not be involved.

29 posted on 05/02/2012 6:39:59 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: KeyLargo
The "theft" was committed by politicians who are likely no longer on the scene - buying votes with a promise to pay that was always unsustainable. If an insurance salesman peddling annuities had made Mr. Corn a similar offer, he likely would looked upon it with skepticism. But because it came from government - "the good guys", in his world view - he feels anybody pointing out the economic invalidity of the promise is a thief, rather than the snake-oil salesman with a (D) after his name who peddled it to him in the first place.

Regardless, Mr. Corn can only be paid what he was promised in highly inflated dollars. That is mathematical certainty.

30 posted on 05/02/2012 6:40:56 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Poison Pill
How are public employees who get pension cuts any different from bond holders of a company that fails?

Well, if they are planning to close the institution and liquidate the all the assets to pay the pensioners, they wouldn't be much different.

Is that what's going to happen?

31 posted on 05/02/2012 6:43:52 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: Renegade
Stop blaming the teacher and start blaming the system.The guy went into the profession knowing what the future outcome would be as far as present pension payments would be . Why is he getting hammered for making a career decision that was a hell of a lot better than 90% of the people in the state. He planed his retirement on that future payout and should be entitled to every penny of it.Arguments that are negative about public pension payouts are the same as the 99% wackos complaining about banks and corporation profits.In life you make decisions. It seems that this guys decision on career was better than the complainers.

You guys better pass a law forcing the taxpeasants to STAY in Illinois, and pay this guy's retirement.

I can just about guarantee you that the only ones left in Illinois after a few years will be idiots too dumb to figure out that they're galley slaves for the public sector retirees.

The exodus, and the shrieks following the taxrefugees, will be entertaining, to say the least.

There's considerable evidence that the exodus has already started - my figures show that even though Illinois monthly personal income tax revenues are WAY up, Illinois monthly personal income totals are WAY down.

32 posted on 05/02/2012 6:44:43 AM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: KeyLargo

Guess What, Professor Corn...

We have met the 1%...and he is YOU!


33 posted on 05/02/2012 6:45:14 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Well, if they are planning to close the institution and liquidate the all the assets to pay the pensioners, they wouldn't be much different.

They did not close or liquidate GM to payout. But the bond holders got killed.

34 posted on 05/02/2012 7:19:52 AM PDT by Poison Pill (Obama is the hopium of the masses)
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To: Sherman Logan
Mr. Corn (or possibly Horn) is quite correct. He entered into a good faith contract which is now being backed out of. He is entirely logical to consider this theft.

What's good enough for GM bondholders is good enough for public employees

35 posted on 05/02/2012 7:24:40 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51

The cliche about “too good to be true” springs to mind.

The process is essentially a con game. The taxpayers lose and the retirees lose (those who don’t die before the system collapses).

The only winners are those who gamed the system for their power, the union leaders and the politicians they corrupt. They aren’t held responsible. (Not that they could be, since the amounts of money involved couldn’t be repossessed from them anyway.)


36 posted on 05/02/2012 7:35:02 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Renegade

You are right that he just is working in the system as it existed- but I worked for some of these government agencies-there are nearly daily discussions on how they can flim-flam the system for their own gain.

And they know it, and then they feel like they deserve it.

When I told them I thought it was immoral if not illegal you would think I pissed in the morning coffee. and they went out of their way to get revenge on me and get me out of there.

These people ARE FILTHY WHORES


37 posted on 05/02/2012 7:44:26 AM PDT by Mr. K (If Romney wins the primary, I am writing-in PALIN)
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To: KeyLargo

Dumb op-ed. While $152K is awfully high, the whole 40-45 years thing is a canard. College professors generally have a PhD requiring 8-10 years of post high school study. Most don’t get the position much before the age of 32. The youngest where I’ve worked for 32 years was 28 when hired.

Most were in the 33-40 years of age range before being hired for a tenure track position with benefits.

My University requires me to pay into my pension plan (private) and they match a portion of what I pay. When I retire, the whole thing is mine, to spend as I please.

If the state government stepped in and took that away, I would consider armed revolution as a good option.


38 posted on 05/02/2012 7:46:37 AM PDT by Poser (Cogito ergo Spam - I think, therefore I ham)
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To: D Rider
What part of the situations like this were caused by public employee union/government collusion?

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!!

This can only continue until the systems collapses, and we are seeing it start to collapse. I am beginning to think you can not manage a collapse, you just have to go for it.

39 posted on 05/02/2012 7:47:22 AM PDT by Mr. K (If Romney wins the primary, I am writing-in PALIN)
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To: Poison Pill
They did not close or liquidate GM to payout. But the bond holders got killed.

"They" broke the law...and violated hundreds of years of corporate protocol. Blatant tyranny.

40 posted on 05/02/2012 7:52:13 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
"They" broke the law...and violated hundreds of years of corporate protocol. Blatant tyranny.

Stay tuned. You ain't seen nuthin yet.

41 posted on 05/02/2012 7:58:37 AM PDT by Poison Pill (Obama is the hopium of the masses)
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To: Poison Pill
You ain't seen nuthin yet.

? Well, I wouldn't exactly call crashing the world economy, destroying the lending industry, the housing industry, the energy sector, millions of personal life savings accounts and jobs "nuthin". Not to mention confiscating your yet-unborn great grandchildren's incomes.

42 posted on 05/02/2012 8:15:38 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: Sherman Logan
He entered into a good faith contract which is now being backed out of.

???

Public employee contract negotiations look more like collusion to me.

43 posted on 05/02/2012 8:28:25 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: Trailerpark Badass

The employees, with rare exceptions, do not negotiate their own contracts. They are required to be members of a union, which negotiates for them. They are as trapped in the system as anyone else.

They have, up to now, benefited. But the gravy train is running out of gravy.


44 posted on 05/02/2012 8:38:24 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
They are required to be members of a union, which negotiates for them. They are as trapped in the system as anyone else.

Whatever, there were blacks fighting on the Confederate side too.

45 posted on 05/02/2012 8:47:09 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Well, I wouldn't exactly call crashing the world economy, destroying the lending industry, the housing industry, the energy sector, millions of personal life savings accounts and jobs "nuthin".

I think there is a belief out there that things got bad but that we avoided disaster. Americans have not experienced the collapse of Social Security and Great Society programs. But they will. We have not yet had millions of people get stiffed on money they were counting on to put food in their mouths. Pols are still cooking the books and finding short term cash to cover this and that. It can't continue.

46 posted on 05/02/2012 8:47:09 AM PDT by Poison Pill (Obama is the hopium of the masses)
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To: Poison Pill
millions of people get stiffed on money they were counting on to put food in their mouths. Pols are still cooking the books and finding short term cash to cover this and that.

Greek style.

47 posted on 05/02/2012 8:53:50 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate Republicans Freed the Slaves Month.)
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To: KeyLargo

Mr. Corn laments that he paid 8% for his pension and for that unholy contribution he feels he has earned.

In California teachers don’t pay into social security and I think twenty other states have the same rule.

Fair share anyone?.


48 posted on 05/02/2012 8:54:36 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: Sherman Logan
exactly....the school board members are usually just teacher union goons.....

we need good men or women of character to start taking over even the smallest political positions.....

49 posted on 05/02/2012 9:58:52 AM PDT by cherry
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To: Renegade
except that he was protected from nearly the getgo in his career....he never could get fired....no matter what....

that does not compare to the 90% who work hard and have to face the consequences and possibly get fired for not keeping up...

so the jokes on us I guess....

just because NOT EVERYBODY can get the cushy govt job doesn't mean the cushy govt workers deserve better treatment...

my husband was also "promised" lots of stuff when he worked for a major company....yet, it was all too easy for bankruptcy to be approved and his retirement medical benefits GONE and his pension cut into thirds.....

one sees evil and insanity one calls it out, no matter who "chose" what...

50 posted on 05/02/2012 10:05:29 AM PDT by cherry
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