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Amish men jailed for refusing to pay buggy fines
ap ^ | January 12, 2012

Posted on 01/12/2012 10:21:58 PM PST by george76

MAYFIELD, Ky. - A group of Amish men were sent to jail in western Kentucky Thursday for refusing to pay fines for breaking a state highway law that requires their horse-drawn buggies to be marked with orange reflective triangles.

The men have a religious objection to the bright orange signs, which they say are flashy and conflict with their pledge to live low-key and religious lives.

...

"I totally understand your objection," the judge told Byler. "But you're in violation, and it's not up to me to change the law. It doesn't really matter what I think about any of this."

(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Illinois; US: Indiana; US: Kentucky; US: Ohio; US: Pennsylvania; US: Tennessee
KEYWORDS: amish
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To: jackibutterfly

The old order has accepted the need for the orange reflectors in Iowa, Missouri and Arkansas.


61 posted on 01/13/2012 5:45:15 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks (Gimme that old time fossil fuel.)
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To: Joe 6-pack; Doogle

“...perhaps letting them paint a reflecting paint sign on their buggies would solve this dispute....”

Yep...I was thinking a reflective hex sign...


I was thinking maybe a really bright “Hello Kitty” sticker.


62 posted on 01/13/2012 5:46:01 AM PST by USMCPOP (Father of LCpl. Karl Linn, KIA 1/26/2005 Al Haqlaniyah, Iraq)
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To: JennysCool
Am I the only one who thinks a judge saying, “It’s not up to me to change the law” is incredibly refreshing?

Actually I think it is the role of judges, the only proper role of judges, to void laws improperly passed by a legislature. I'm not saying that I'm sure that would be the case with this triangle law here, but when the Supreme Court decides that an Act of Congress is unconstitutional and voids it, that is decidedly different from ordering a remedy (e.g. forced busing) which effectively becomes law.

ML/NJ

63 posted on 01/13/2012 6:27:50 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: trumandogz

If Bubba were to pick a fight with the average middle aged Amish man, he would receive an unpleasant surprise.


64 posted on 01/13/2012 6:31:19 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: nathanbedford

“But when one decides to practice medicine one has not made a decision which submits him to that degree of regulation.”

I think that is in error.

Medical personnel, e.g., are subject to the draft in three ways -

The regular draft,
The Special Medical Draft,
And now, The Civilian Medical Corps Draft included in Obamacare.

All of this is in exchange for the “priviledge of practicing medicine.”


65 posted on 01/13/2012 6:45:28 AM PST by patton ("Je pense donc je suis," - My Horse.)
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To: george76
The Amish aren't Luddites, and they're not completely withdrawn from the public square (unlike, say, the Jehovah's Witnesses). They value community over individuality, and so they cautiously adopt technologies and customs that will avoid eroding the boundaries of their community or their distinction from the "English."

Amish farmers are off the grid, but for decades they have generally permitted diesel-powered generators in the barn to power refrigerated milk tanks. This was a concession to public health concerns, and thus a benefit to the community: it preserved their livelihood. When reflective triangles are perceived by the community elders as beneficial—say, because they prevent unnecessary deaths by enabling motorists to avoid rear-ending a dark, unlit buggy in the middle of the night—they'll be permitted. As other posters have already pointed out, some Amish communities already permit reflecters and battery-powered lights.

Also, the Amish drive black buggies and wear dark, plain clothing because of their tradition of modesty. Cars and clothing are amongst the most visible status symbols, and they wish to avoid class distinctions between them. It seems to me that if every Amish buggy had a bright orange triangle on it, that wouldn't be a problem, since no one would be any more "flashy" than anyone else. But, to be fair, I'm not necessarily thinking with their logic.

66 posted on 01/13/2012 7:16:28 AM PST by RansomOttawa (tm)
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To: A Navy Vet

You quite blew away any consideration that this long extant, law abiding people group was overrun, by turning this into a strawman about their religion. How would you like if Islam overran you?


67 posted on 01/13/2012 8:01:13 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: jackibutterfly
They shouldn’t let them drive their buggies until they comply. What they’re doing is dangerous.

Dangerous because others chose to drive cars. If everyone drove buggies it would be safer still than having some drive cars and some drive buggies with orange stickers wouldn't it?

Assuming you are not prepared to force everyone to drive buggies, then why are you selective about the liberty that you oppose do to safety?

68 posted on 01/13/2012 8:31:28 AM PST by AndyTheBear
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To: jackibutterfly

The amish here in Lancaster have no problem using the triangles. They would be roadkill without them!


69 posted on 01/13/2012 9:34:59 PM PST by Domestic Church (AMDG ...)
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To: AndyTheBear
Assuming you are not prepared to force everyone to drive buggies, then why are you selective about the liberty that you oppose do to safety?

Then let's leave it up to not-quite-natural selection. Those Amish who don't have reflectors will end up getting themselves and their families killed. Those who do add the reflectors will live, and will pass on the trait that says put a reflector on your buggy.

Having dang near hit a buggy at night without reflectors, I"m inclined to lean towards working out something so that there are reflectors. Those things are too hard to see otherwise.
70 posted on 01/14/2012 10:20:20 PM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: george76

They got about 1 day jail time per $50 of fine.

While most annual estimates peg a year in jail as costing $30k (or more)...or $82 per day.

By all reasonable comparisons it appears the thoughtful judge lengthend the stays to make it particularly painful in this case even for people of very limited income, however it still isn’t cost effective for the tax payer. The tax payer is paying $82 per day, to in essences forgive $50 per day.


71 posted on 01/14/2012 11:41:00 PM PST by Fitzy_888 ("ownership society")
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To: krb

So you support the Muslims who want exemptions from airport security for religious reasons?


72 posted on 01/15/2012 6:36:20 AM PST by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: krb

So you support the Muslims who want exemptions from airport security for religious reasons?


73 posted on 01/15/2012 6:36:31 AM PST by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: krb
Not all laws are unjust and oppressive.

And if these guys really want to live low-key, humble lives why were they in court fighting over stupid things and getting written up in the media all over the world?

74 posted on 01/15/2012 7:03:04 AM PST by Tribune7 (Vote Perry)
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To: Tribune7

Guess these Kentucky Amish are a bit uppity. No Problemo. The Law has a method for fixin that.

After 30 days in the hole these boys will be more than happy to slap the reflector on the family buggy.

And everybody LIVED happily ever after.


75 posted on 01/15/2012 7:58:39 AM PST by Gasshog (going to get what all those libs asked for, but its not what they expected.)
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To: george76

Got to teach these uppity Amish a lesson

After all, how do you expect people to see that there is a HORSE and BUGGY on the street if there is not a red triangle on it.

People should be requred to wear orange triangles too.


76 posted on 01/15/2012 8:02:13 AM PST by Mr. K (Physically unable to profreed <--- oops, see?)
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To: george76

Mark 12:17


77 posted on 01/15/2012 8:46:22 AM PST by EBH (God Humbles Nations, Leaders, and Peoples before He uses them for His Purpose)
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To: af_vet_rr
Having dang near hit a buggy at night without reflectors, I"m inclined to lean towards working out something so that there are reflectors. Those things are too hard to see otherwise.

I can imagine driving a buggy at night on the street with no lights and no reflectors is very dangerous. Perhaps some kind of less garish reflectors might be a good solution. I would guess that the religious principles of drawing undue attention would not be violated by reflectors that were not very noticeable except at night with headlights shining on them.

78 posted on 01/15/2012 1:56:36 PM PST by AndyTheBear
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To: AndyTheBear
I live in PA and work in Lancaster county. My commute to work goes through an area with a lot of Amish farms and I’m occasionally stuck behind a buggy. More often I’m stuck behind a slow moving farm tractor. But the Amish here in PA and the farm tractors all have the orange triangles and the buggies have turn signals too.

I’ve come up on a buggie at night, especially this time of year when the days are short and I’m glad they have the orange reflectors. I can’t imagine driving on a windy country road a night and coming up on a slow moving horse and carriage with no reflectors

Interestingly one day I stopped at a grocery store near work that has special “Buggie Only” parking and, I’m not making this up, there was an open buggie parked that had a bright red gasoline can in full view in the back.

That was almost as strange as the afternoon I was leaving a golf driving range in NE Maryland and saw a pickup truck some sort of work truck, drive up with two black guys and a young Amish guy. They came to play putt putt.

79 posted on 01/15/2012 2:10:02 PM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: A Navy Vet
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I'm mostly sympathetic to your rant. I also agree with the poster/s that brought up scripture to point out the questionable theology of the Amish. (render unto Caesar etc...) I have to say however, the constitution is right there in black and white. I don't care how many activist lawyers and judges try to interpret what it says. You want to force Amish to put triangles or lights on their buggies, amend the constitution.
80 posted on 01/15/2012 2:44:30 PM PST by Tailback
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