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Conservative group backtracks on marriage pledge slavery language
Politico ^ | 07/09/2011 | MAGGIE HABERMAN

Posted on 07/09/2011 9:35:16 PM PDT by Hawk720

A social conservative Iowa group has retracted language regarding slavery from the opening of a presidential candidates' pledge, amid a growing controversy over the document that Michele Bachmann had signed and Rick Santorum committed to.

The original "marriage vow" from the Family Leader, unveiled last week, included a line at the opening of its preamble, which suggested that black children born into slavery were better off in terms of family life than African-American kids born today.

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2012; bachmann; bachmann4obama; bachmann4romney; iowa; michelebachmann; minnesota; ricksantorum; santorum; slavery
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1 posted on 07/09/2011 9:35:21 PM PDT by Hawk720
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To: Hawk720

I really hate this. If you’re going to say something like that, know you’re going to be attacked and be prepared to defend it with facts. Otherwise, don’t bother.


2 posted on 07/09/2011 9:38:59 PM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

I am so pissed about this retraction. I have been on Facebook all day defending this clear language that DID NOT say that black children were better off under slavery. Now they retract it. Ridiculous!


3 posted on 07/09/2011 9:42:10 PM PDT by RightFighter (Now back to my war station.)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

Here’s the basic argument: The point is exactly the opposite of what you said, actually, because the point that the pledge is making is that slavery was a major barrier to the cohesiveness of the black family, and that with that barrier gone, black two-parent families should be able to thrive, but “sadly” (the word used in the pledge) they aren’t. In fact, over 70% of African-American babies today are born to single parents – a prime sociological indicator for poverty, pathology and prison regardless of race or ethnicity.


4 posted on 07/09/2011 9:44:26 PM PDT by RightFighter (Now back to my war station.)
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To: Hawk720
This slavery horse crap !! I have heard this ridiculous whining all my life and enough!! NO one alive had anything to do with it and the country has been destroyed, Pandering to these Clowns and idiots!
5 posted on 07/09/2011 9:48:09 PM PDT by Cheetahcat ( November 4 2008 ,A date that will live in Infamy.)
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To: Hawk720

The really sad thing is, the Left has no interest whatsoever in bettering the plight of the black family.

If they address this comment at all, they’ll know that it didn’t really say or mean what they will say it did. No, they won’t be defending blacks.

They will simply be attacking people on the right.

The Left is a very evil enterprise as a group.


6 posted on 07/09/2011 9:49:50 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
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To: RightFighter

Then it’s even more gutless.


7 posted on 07/09/2011 9:50:06 PM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (Some men just want to watch the world burn.)
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To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

Today’s dysfunctions and misplaced moralities versus yesteryear’s chattel slavery — the conditions of which varied greatly according to locale — this is not something that can be propounded in a sound bite. If they wanted to produce a lengthy discourse on it that explained all the angles possible, that would be a different story.


8 posted on 07/09/2011 9:59:14 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: HiTech RedNeck
Today’s dysfunctions and misplaced moralities versus yesteryear’s chattel slavery — the conditions of which varied greatly according to locale — this is not something that can be propounded in a sound bite.

Bingo. This is precisely why the language was ill-conceived, and Bachmann signing the pledge (as written) was even more ill-conceived.

9 posted on 07/09/2011 10:07:28 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier

With one caveat. Biblically literate people would understand the concept of “being slaves to sin.” God gives insight into what that would mean. Otherwise it’s so much babble.


10 posted on 07/09/2011 10:11:06 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Hawk720
which suggested that black children born into slavery were better off in terms of family life than African-American kids born today.

The truth hurts. Note: It's not an endorsement of slavery; it's a condemnation of what the War on Poverty has wrought: a war on God and life.

Yes, Virginia, some things are worse than slavery.

11 posted on 07/09/2011 10:15:45 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Bingo! While WE all understand what the group was trying to say about the breakdown of the black family, they should have simply point to the LBJ’s Great society and liberalism in what transpired today with many African American families not being together....there was NO NEED to go all the way back to slavery to glean something good from it.

Slave masters did break up original families and sometime sold the weaker family members away for stronger workers if they needed field workers.


12 posted on 07/09/2011 10:17:21 PM PDT by Bigtigermike
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To: Hawk720
A very stupid thing thing for them to put out there. It's called shooting one’s self in one’s foot with a shotgun.
Amateurish and tone deaf.
13 posted on 07/09/2011 10:25:42 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Real hope and change comes in January 2013)
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To: Bigtigermike
While many slave owners encouraged slave marriages, the truth is that about 1/3 of such families were disrupted by many members being "sold down the river" separately and sometimes a mother and child together.This puts a lie to the stupidly worded "pledge".

When Daniel Patrick Moynihan wrote his report about welfare, the out of wedlock birth figures, for blacks, stood at 1/3 of the black population. Earlier, the out of wedlock birthrate for blacks, was lower.

The lack of historical knowledge, reflected in the "pledge" is appalling; to say the least! And yes, if they had brought up how truly dreadful the "WAR ON POVERTY" proved to be, that would at least have made some sense, since it was conceived and run by Dems!

One has to wonder............do those who sign political pledges actually read them before signing on ?

14 posted on 07/09/2011 10:34:18 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: SamuraiScot
Yes, Virginia, some things are worse than slavery.

Disagree.

If America as a nation stands for anything, it's the primacy of human freedom and equality.

Chattel slavery is the utter negation of those principles, therefore it is (was) by definition the most anti-American of all possible institutions.

The present deplorable condition of so many black Americans can be reversed in any individual family simply by refusing to participate. Slavery denied that choice to individuals, and families in any meaningful sense of the term could not exist under slavery.

15 posted on 07/09/2011 10:41:06 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: nopardons

I agree....... while the intent of the group was to point out the breakdown of the Black family unit, their ignorance of basic historical facts makes their intentions just like the “good intentions” of the left - worthless.


16 posted on 07/09/2011 11:19:08 PM PDT by Bigtigermike
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To: Bigtigermike
"THE ROAD TO HELL IS PAVED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS" and so it is.

Absolutely no "good" was served by the stupid "pledge", nor the signing of same. All this did was give ammunition to those who hate GOPers, Christians, and abolitionists of old.

And what was the point of it, anyway? Slavery is long gone, in this nation; however, the Dems are the ones who are still holding onto the the concept, at least, no matter how many times and in how many different ways they attempt to deny it.

17 posted on 07/09/2011 11:27:40 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: Bigtigermike

It’s irony, though, that through an addiction to the support of the state, they have brought woes on themselves that are like some of the woes of antebellum slavery.

I’m hankering for Herman Cain to get on national TV and ask everyone (of all colors) do they want to keep picking cotton in chains on the Democrat plantation or do they want to be free. Oh, liberal heads would explode from coast to coast. But Cain wouldn’t be cowed.


18 posted on 07/09/2011 11:50:37 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: Sherman Logan

Some slave manned plantations had more liberal (in a good sense) policies and allowed their slaves to have side businesses and to buy themselves free. Some allowed marriages and families that were preserved as a group. This was due to Christian morality, which some masters honored more than others depending on their personal convictions.


19 posted on 07/09/2011 11:57:12 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: SamuraiScot
which suggested that black children born into slavery were better off in terms of family life than African-American kids born today.

The truth hurts.


That isn't truth. Children born into slavery could be separated from their mothers and sold from the moment they were born, could be beaten or whipped, could be worked to exhaustion or death, could be starved, and could be raped. And sometimes they were - that's what slavery is all about. The notion that all this is "better off" than today's conditions is both ridiculous and offensive.
20 posted on 07/10/2011 12:42:28 AM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: nopardons

Slavery is word to be avoided at all possible costs unless its being condemned.


21 posted on 07/10/2011 3:57:33 AM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: wiggen
Slavery is word to be avoided at all possible costs unless its being condemned.

Which is why I will forever use the word to describe the tax burden that productive people face in this country. Forced redistribution is slavery.

22 posted on 07/10/2011 4:21:55 AM PDT by meyer (We will not sit down and shut up.)
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To: RightFighter
No candidate should sign this pledge or any other. These groups are coming out of the woodwork demanding candidates sign THEIR pledges or they will not support them.

The idea of pledges in the first place is the problem--not this particular part of this pledge. The whole thing is nothing but an opportunity for the Family Leader to try to remain relevant in Iowa.

This group has made so many mistakes, they deserve to fade off into obscurity. No more pledges!!

23 posted on 07/10/2011 4:32:26 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: HereInTheHeartland
The Family Leader (The Dollar Follower) just can't seem to do anything right any more. Maybe that's because they're looking for a way to remain relevant.

Just about a week ago, VP goes on the Mickelson show and stabs very good Republican lawmakers in the back and then rightfully got his comeuppance from a couple of those lawmakers he was stabbing.

The ironic part was that during the whole legislative session TFL had done nothing to help advance the pro-life legislation to prevent late-term abortion in Iowa and then he goes on the air and criticizes the Republicans for "lack of leadership" regarding the issue.

This whole issue of demanding candidates to sign pledges is out of hand and I'll have more respect for the next candidate who tells the next group where to stick their pledge.

We need to demand that candidates sign a pledge that they will not sign any more pledges.

24 posted on 07/10/2011 4:41:12 AM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: Hawk720

The conservative group should pack it up and go home. Their sanctimony is offensive and serves no purpose than enhancing their own self esteem.

They do more harm than good. they do no good at all


25 posted on 07/10/2011 4:49:44 AM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 ....Flash mobs are trickle down leftwing REDISTRIBUTION))
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To: Hawk720
"Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an African-American baby born after the election of the USA?s first African-American President," read the preamble. Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/58631.html#ixzz1RhZQspiK

From the article.

26 posted on 07/10/2011 4:56:21 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: Hawk720
From the article:

"She signed the 'candidate vow,' " campaign spokeswoman Alice Stewart said, and distanced Bachmann from the preamble language, saying, "In no uncertain terms, Congresswoman Bachmann believes that slavery was horrible and economic enslavement is also horrible."

It wasn't clear whether Bachmann had read the "slavery" language in the preamble, but Stewart later added Bachmann "stands behind the candidate vow - which makes absolutely no reference to slavery."

Comments?

27 posted on 07/10/2011 5:04:29 AM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: Conservativegreatgrandma

“This whole issue of demanding candidates to sign pledges is out of hand “

Totally agree. It sounds like what school children do on the playground.


28 posted on 07/10/2011 5:44:09 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Real hope and change comes in January 2013)
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To: HereInTheHeartland
Proving a total vacuity of interest in classical Indian literature, some Americans involve themselves in the taking and giving of pledges as though they were universally meaningful.

As even the poorest peasant in India could tell you, pledges will almost certainly lead you to ruin and should be avoided.

29 posted on 07/10/2011 6:02:25 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: HereInTheHeartland

I demand that all candidates sign my pledge that they won’t sign any pledges. If not, they will not get my support. And while they are at it, at the next debate, I want them all to “raise their hands” if they don’t believe in pledges.


30 posted on 07/10/2011 6:07:41 AM PDT by conservaterian (Sarah/DeMint '12)
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To: DoughtyOne

AGREED— And the Democratic Party politic is all about keepin the negro on the Democratic Plantation and doing high tech lynchin’ of any uppity educated black man who attempts leave that plantation.The Only people the Democratic Party benefit are the Party bosses (just like their Communist Party mentors)


31 posted on 07/10/2011 6:14:29 AM PDT by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: meyer

Thats fine. I just hate giving people ammo to use against me.


32 posted on 07/10/2011 6:18:05 AM PDT by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: nopardons
Absolutely no "good" was served by the stupid "pledge", nor the signing of same. All this did was give ammunition to those who hate GOPers, Christians, and abolitionists of old.

It was an obvious trap Bachmann wasn't smart enough to avoid.

She's a gift to Obama for sure and maybe even Romney. She's looking more like a stalking horse, a black hole for conservative votes and dollars every day.

No one takes Santorum's candidacy seriously except his kids who keep asking why he's always gone--something he mentioned in a debate.

33 posted on 07/10/2011 6:55:27 AM PDT by newzjunkey ("cave" it's not just a hole in the hillside)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Meaningless. Perception is reality. Her people should have, and could've easily, done some due diligence on the pledge before she signed off.

It's yet another failure of Bachmann leadership.

It's like she'll sign anything except DeMint's very simple cut-cap-balance pledge.

34 posted on 07/10/2011 7:00:01 AM PDT by newzjunkey ("cave" it's not just a hole in the hillside)
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To: newzjunkey

I agree that she should have looked before she leaped, but at least she’s willing to take on the homosexual agenda.


35 posted on 07/10/2011 7:08:45 AM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: Hawk720

[[Conservative group backtracks on marriage pledge slavery language ]]

This entire episode is a case study in why conservatives (and conservatism) loses in the public forum of ideas.

1. Conservative group or person makes a controversial statement (such as the suggestion that black children enjoyed more stable “families” under slavery than in many situations today - a statement which has the ring of truth).

2. The left screams “racism”, or, what-have-you.

3. The conservative person or group goes wobbly, starts trying to “clarify” his/her/their remarks.

4. The left screams louder.

5. The conservative person or group “apologizes” and retracts his/her/their earlier remarks. The “retraction” has no bearing to the fact that the remarks are based on truth. Rather, it comes with ONE reason: to “save face” and to stop the screaming.

When are conservatives going to stand up to the screamers and say, “I said what I meant and meant what I said, I’m NOT sorry, I’m NOT going to apologize, and I’m NOT going to take back what I said, for truth is truth.” ????

Just sayin’....


36 posted on 07/10/2011 7:47:42 AM PDT by Grumplestiltskin (I may look new, but it's only deja vu!)
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To: StonyBurk

Good point. I didn’t agree with Powell on a lot of things, Condoliza Rice either, but the way the Leftists went after them just because they were in a Bush administration, wow.

If you’re a black woman social worker, you’re a genius. If you’re a black Conservative, you’re an Uncle Tom.


37 posted on 07/10/2011 8:22:48 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (F me, you, everybody, the new Dem/Pubie compromise. No debt reduction, + wild spending forever...)
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To: Hawk720

Put a fork in Bachmann! Not because of this pledge, but because she has no character and her judgment is in question.

Bachmann put a fork in herself when she sent Rollins out to attack Gov Palin.


38 posted on 07/10/2011 8:49:56 AM PDT by Friendofgeorge (DID I MENTION......SARAH PALIN OR FLIPPIN BUST)
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To: Hawk720

Once again the GOP kowtows to the Marxist. Yet we are supposed to vote for them.


39 posted on 07/10/2011 8:55:31 AM PDT by Altura Ct.
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To: RightFighter
The other argument is this....Not that the black folks are totally responsible for abortion in this country, however as a group they had the power to prevent many/most of the 60 million plus abortions that have taken place.

Same can be said of American Catholics, they also had the power as a group to prevent the aprox 60 million abortions that have taken place.

Also Black`s/Catholics both have blood on their hands, not just for abortion, but gay marriage, having prayer and God`s Word removed from public square etc.

For full disclosure RINO WASP`s etc that have voted Democrat or for moderate Republicans etc, also have blood on their hands. Not sure if this group alone could have prevented all the death/destruction? But certainly the other 2 groups on their own could have prevented liberal Supreme Court Justices from ever having their say.

Black`s have such a rich Christian heritage, but now when they wave their arms in Church Sunday Morning saying they Love Jesus, it`s all in vain IMHO

40 posted on 07/10/2011 9:04:01 AM PDT by Friendofgeorge (DID I MENTION......SARAH PALIN OR FLIPPIN BUST)
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To: newzjunkey

MB has no character


41 posted on 07/10/2011 9:06:49 AM PDT by Friendofgeorge (DID I MENTION......SARAH PALIN OR FLIPPIN BUST)
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To: Hawk720
I understood the meaning of the original pledge's wording as this:
A black child born today in America has less of a chance, less hope, then a black child born in America when slavery was legal.
That's simply true. Simply, horribly, brutally true.
42 posted on 07/10/2011 9:16:33 AM PDT by bvw
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To: Friendofgeorge
Following on my responsa at 42, I add this regarding Michele Bachmann:

Of all the Presidential candidates we now know of, including the known possibilities, including Herman Cain, Michele Bachamnn is the one candidate who will best understand the tragic plight of the black child born in America today.

And that understanding is due to her, her husband's and family's experience in caring for and loving the many foster children they have taken in.

For the plight of a black child born in America today is worse than that of an un-adoptable orphan.


43 posted on 07/10/2011 9:22:09 AM PDT by bvw
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44 posted on 07/10/2011 9:47:48 AM PDT by TheOldLady (FReepmail me to get ON or OFF the ZOT LIGHTNING ping list.)
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To: wiggen

True, which it wasn’t, in this instance and just another reason why this “pledge” thing was so wrong, in so many different ways!


45 posted on 07/10/2011 12:54:08 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Oh gee.........a spokesman is spinning so fast, I'm dizzy from reading that tripe. Where is Michele, herself, saying what she did or did not mean, by signing that dumb thing?

that may be a CYA move, but it's makes it look as though Bachmann didn't bother to read the pledge at all. This is another horrifying gaffe!

46 posted on 07/10/2011 12:59:55 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: newzjunkey
I concur.

And I'm growing weary of Bachmann's feet in mouth moments, which are happening more and more often.

47 posted on 07/10/2011 1:04:32 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: bvw
No, that actually isn't, as worded!

Though there was ALWAYS the possibility of being sold, under slavery, being beaten, and kept in total ignorance ( though some slaves were taught/found a way to learn how to read ), today it isn't necessarily someone else keeping blacks in poverty, ignorance, and "enslaved", but they, themselves! Yes, they can now vote, someone doesn't exactly "own" them, but the Dem "slave masters" have pushed so many of them into a position that is untenable;or should be! And THAT should have been the way this "pledge" was written. It wasn't and it is also historically inaccurate,as I proved up thread, in an earlier post.

48 posted on 07/10/2011 1:18:35 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: nopardons
And I'm growing weary of Bachmann's feet in mouth moments, which are happening more and more often.

I don't want to give up on Bachmann because I agree with her conservative views and her willingness to stand up to the homosexual agenda, but it's getting harder and harder to defend her against this.

49 posted on 07/10/2011 5:17:09 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Her gaffes, mistakes, and endless excuses have put me off completely. She may say what we want to hear, sometimes,but instead of getting better, she's gotten worse and I'm finished giving her chances. She just isn't ready for the spotlight; let alone the presidency or VEEP positions.
50 posted on 07/10/2011 5:29:06 PM PDT by nopardons
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